[Speculation] Sage to the Jets?

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by barrett

that's a pathetic list.

outside of Cassell who is no longer a backup and Garcia who hasn't been for years there is not a QB better than Sage on there.

Sage is a turnover machine. He forces throws that his arm don't allow him to get away with. The more he plays, the worse he does. When he starts, teams prepare for Sage he looks bad because they capitalize on his weaknesses. This is why he is a backup. Half of you arguing against him were calling for him to start back during the season. Roy was one of the only voices outside of my own who never trumpeted him over Schaub.

But with that said, Sage moves a team up and down the field as well as any backup QB and better than many starters. The more he plays, the more the returns diminish, but he is a great guy to pull off the bench or to spot start.

Additionally, it is obvious Kubiak likes him. I don't see him surrendering him for just a guy since he is coaching for his job this year.

Don't disagree that Sage is probably one of the better ones, but even so, I think that misses the point a little bit. A number of these guys would probably give you 90% of what Sage does. In my opinion, the opportunity to get another draft pick offsets what little extra value Sage might give you.

I think you're spot on with your analysis of Sage and he can move the ball in spot duty. However, the bottom line is he went 2-4 last year, with 1 win being a Rex Grossman special (a 16-6 win where Sage threw 2 picks). I don't see how anyone can think Sage had any significant impact on us winning games last year. And if he didn't, why is he so valuable?

[popanot]

Garcia would be a huge upgrade to Sage (especially a short-term upgrade), IMO. However, this trade talk is silly. No team in their right mind would give anything for Sage. He was worth something before the start of last season, but his play pretty much wiped out any value he had. Plus, Kubiak seems comfortable with him so he probably wouldn't trade him unless it was an outrageous offer, which is not going to happen.

[dalemurphy]

Originally Posted by Joshua

Don't disagree that Sage is probably one of the better ones, but even so, I think that misses the point a little bit. A number of these guys would probably give you 90% of what Sage does. In my opinion, the opportunity to get another draft pick offsets what little extra value Sage might give you.

I think you're spot on with your analysis of Sage and he can move the ball in spot duty. However, the bottom line is he went 2-4 last year, with 1 win being a Rex Grossman special (a 16-6 win where Sage threw 2 picks). I don't see how anyone can think Sage had any significant impact on us winning games last year. And if he didn't, why is he so valuable?

Sage had a winnng record in 2007. Are you arguing that he's on the downside of his career? The point is that Sage knows the offense, can run it with some efficiency and doesn't really limit what we do when he's in the game. The idea that a team playing for something would trade him away for a late round pick without an answer in place at that position is foolish, especially considering Schaub's inability to play a full season to this point in his career. Everyone loves draft picks. It certainly makes the off-season more exciting, but I don't want to be sitting in the stands watching Craig Nall handoff 45 times while staring at the 5th round pick with my binnoculars sitting on the bench, which is what most rookie 5th round picks do.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

Sage had a winnng record in 2007. Are you arguing that he's on the downside of his career? The point is that Sage knows the offense, can run it with some efficiency and doesn't really limit what we do when he's in the game. The idea that a team playing for something would trade him away for a late round pick without an answer in place at that position is foolish, especially considering Schaub's inability to play a full season to this point in his career. Everyone loves draft picks. It certainly makes the off-season more exciting, but I don't want to be sitting in the stands watching Craig Nall handoff 45 times while staring at the 5th round pick with my binnoculars sitting on the bench, which is what most rookie 5th round picks do.

Although he will be 31 in 1 month, I wouldn't argue he is on the downside of his career. I would argue that 2008 is indicative of his career and that 2007 was the anomaly (at least as to his ability to lead a team to victories). I don't think he's a guy who can routinely win 60-70% of his games. I think he is more like the guy he was this year and realistically can win 40-50% of his games if he gets a couple of good breaks. While that probably puts him in the upper echelon of backups, I don't think it makes him that much better.

As for not having an answer in place, I guess I would disagree that finding a replacement would be that hard and I see no reason why we would end up with a Craig Nall. Every year there are veterans like Mark Brunell, Brad Johnson, Jeff Garcia, etc. who are begging to catch on with teams. Then you've got the Ramseys, Bollers, Leftwichs, and Losmans of the world who are younger but never quite lived up to expectations (at least as starters). I don't think it would be difficult for the Texans to land one of these guys (much like we picked up Quinn Gray last year). Even if Sage were better, I think the difference between Sage and most of these guys is probably only a game or 2 at most.

While draft picks are no guarantee, I would roll the dice with a 5th rounder and some veteran to be named later. While you may be right and we end up with Schaub injured and a terrible QB tanking our season while our draft pick rides the pine, I would rather think that Schaub stays healthy, we grab a cheap backup who can do the job if necessary, and have a draft pick that looks like a steal.

Quite frankly, unless Schaub stays healthy and we get a few more draft picks right, all of this is moot because we probably aren't good enough to win consistently unless both of these things happen.

[cadams]

yeah, all this talk about Nall is meaningless. anyone arguing that trading Sage would mean Nall would be annointed the #2 are not being realistic about the situation. there are a lot of QBs out there who would be just fine as a backup. the texans would sign one of those guys and he would be the #2 unless Nall really showed him something. Here are the UFAs avaibable this offseason who could be had as backups most likely. This list may be a bit off as some of these guys may have already signed, but do you reall think that someone like Simms, Ramsey, or Losman couldn't decent enough as a backup to be able to trade Sage for a draft pick? Also, Garcia isn't on this list because he could end up as a starter, but I would feel just as confident with him as a backup as Sage anyday. also, just noticed that someone already posted this list, but i had already typed this out so i am posting it our of principle.

Chris Simms/Tennessee Titans/UFA
J.P. Losman/Buffalo Bills/UFA
Byron Leftwich/Pittsburgh Steelers/UFA
Rex Grossman/Chicago Bears/UFA
Kyle Boller/Baltimore Ravens/UFA
Luke McCown/Tampa Bay Buccaneers/UFA
Patrick Ramsey/Denver Broncos/UFA
Brooks Bollinger/Dallas Cowboys/UFA
Dan Orlovsky/Detroit Lions/UFA
Charlie Frye/Seattle Seahawks/UFA
Charlie Batch/Pittsburgh Steelers/UFA
Anthony Wright/New York Giants/UFA

[dalemurphy]

Originally Posted by cadams

yeah, all this talk about Nall is meaningless. anyone arguing that trading Sage would mean Nall would be annointed the #2 are not being realistic about the situation. there are a lot of QBs out there who would be just fine as a backup. the texans would sign one of those guys and he would be the #2 unless Nall really showed him something. Here are the UFAs avaibable this offseason who could be had as backups most likely. This list may be a bit off as some of these guys may have already signed, but do you reall think that someone like Simms, Ramsey, or Losman couldn't decent enough as a backup to be able to trade Sage for a draft pick? Also, Garcia isn't on this list because he could end up as a starter, but I would feel just as confident with him as a backup as Sage anyday. also, just noticed that someone already posted this list, but i had already typed this out so i am posting it our of principle.

Chris Simms/Tennessee Titans/UFA
J.P. Losman/Buffalo Bills/UFA
Byron Leftwich/Pittsburgh Steelers/UFA
Rex Grossman/Chicago Bears/UFA
Kyle Boller/Baltimore Ravens/UFA
Luke McCown/Tampa Bay Buccaneers/UFA
Patrick Ramsey/Denver Broncos/UFA
Brooks Bollinger/Dallas Cowboys/UFA
Dan Orlovsky/Detroit Lions/UFA
Charlie Frye/Seattle Seahawks/UFA
Charlie Batch/Pittsburgh Steelers/UFA
Anthony Wright/New York Giants/UFA

If it is week #14 and the Texans are 8-4 and playing the Indy Colts for the division lead and MSchaub is out two weeks with a cracked rib, I'll take Sage Rosenfels and you can have anybody on that list of yours plus a 5th round pick... Do you really like your situation better than starting Sage Rosenfels. Don't forget, this is Sage's 4th year in this offense, throwing to this group of receivers. That's significant!

[nero THE zero]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

If it is week #14 and the Texans are 8-4 and playing the Indy Colts for the division lead and MSchaub is out two weeks with a cracked rib, I'll take Sage Rosenfels and you can have anybody on that list of yours plus a 5th round pick... Do you really like your situation better than starting Sage Rosenfels. Don't forget, this is Sage's 4th year in this offense, throwing to this group of receivers. That's significant!

I can only hope that some other team's GM thinks as highly of Sage as you do.

It's only February and you've already forgetten the biggest meltdown in Texan history at the hands of the Rosencopter.

[dalemurphy]

Originally Posted by nero THE zero

I can only hope that some other team's GM thinks as highly of Sage as you do.

It's only February and you've already forgetten the biggest meltdown in Texan history at the hands of the Rosencopter.

I was at the game and it almost killed me. However, I don't grade him by that ending anymore than I do his incredible comeback against Tennessee in 2007. He's a very good backup and he gives us an excellent chance to win if our starter is out. I think that is more important that a 5th round pick.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

If it is week #14 and the Texans are 8-4 and playing the Indy Colts for the division lead and MSchaub is out two weeks with a cracked rib, I'll take Sage Rosenfels and you can have anybody on that list of yours plus a 5th round pick... Do you really like your situation better than starting Sage Rosenfels. Don't forget, this is Sage's 4th year in this offense, throwing to this group of receivers. That's significant!

I vaguely remember Sage playing the Colts this past year. I thought that game ended badly, but I must be mistaken since dale is adamant that he's the guy to take on the Colts next year in week 14.

In all seriousness, my first point would be that your hypothetical is tailormade for your viewpoint. It is also possible that Sage never sees the field and then leaves as a free agent for nothing. But accepting your hypothetical, because Sage is so turnover-prone, I really don't think he gives us that much better chance to win than some of these others. On this we will just have to agree to disagree. However, I think Sage's play last year supports my point. He went 2-4 and his turnovers were killers. I don't think Sage played significantly better than most would have given the same opportunity last year.

[nero THE zero]

Originally Posted by Joshua

I vaguely remember Sage playing the Colts this past year. I thought that game ended badly, but I must be mistaken since dale is adamant that he's the guy to take on the Colts next year in week 14.

In all seriousness, my first point would be that your hypothetical is tailormade for your viewpoint. It is also possible that Sage never sees the field and then leaves as a free agent for nothing. But accepting your hypothetical, because Sage is so turnover-prone, I really don't think he gives us that much better chance to win than some of these others. On this we will just have to agree to disagree. However, I think Sage's play last year supports my point. He went 2-4 and his turnovers were killers. I don't think Sage played significantly better than most would have given the same opportunity last year.

Well said.

I think the main issue of contention here isn't the value of the back-up QB position, as Barrett and Dale maintain, but the value of Sage himself.

[cadams]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

If it is week #14 and the Texans are 8-4 and playing the Indy Colts for the division lead and MSchaub is out two weeks with a cracked rib, I'll take Sage Rosenfels and you can have anybody on that list of yours plus a 5th round pick... Do you really like your situation better than starting Sage Rosenfels. Don't forget, this is Sage's 4th year in this offense, throwing to this group of receivers. That's significant!

in that scenario i wouldn't have a problem with one of those guys over sage. the fact of the matter is that they will live and die by schaub's health. please don't forget about the rosencopter and the other 3 turnovers he had against indy last year. he does have experience with the receivers, but he has been a backup his whole career for a reason. if you could get a 4th for him jump on it, because i would trade a back up player for a potential started everyday of the week