[Speculation] Sage to the Jets?

[nero THE zero]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

I would love to see this list on inexpensive, easy-to-get backup QBs that don't throw picks!

Craig Nall's never thrown an interception.

Seriously though, do you know how ridiculous it sounds to sit here and plead how desperately we need our back-up QB? If you can't pawn your back-up anything for picks than you have no place talking playoffs, much less your back-up QB.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by nero THE zero

Craig Nall's never thrown an interception.

Seriously though, do you know how ridiculous it sounds to sit here and plead how desperately we need our back-up QB? If you can't pawn your back-up anything for picks than you have no place talking playoffs, much less your back-up QB.

how do you reach this conclusion? How are you equating the ability to trade a backup with being a playoff team? If anything the opposite would be true in that a playoff team is able to trade away draft picks to pick up role players needed in the short term.

This team and this staff are starting to feel pressure to win now. They don't get another free throw away year. So I don't see a deal going down unless it makes us a better team next year and no way does a 5th round pick do that.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by barrett

So I don't see a deal going down unless it makes us a better team next year and no way does a 5th round pick do that.

Really?

You don't think we could get a player who contributes in the 5th round? Or are you simply saying that we can't get a 5th round QB who would be as "dependable" as Sage? I think I could find a couple of 5th rounders who might compete for a starting position on this team, how sad is that?

Bear Pascoe
Matt Shaugnessy
Lawrence Sidbury
Corvey Irvin
Dannel Ellerbe
Cedric Peerman
AQ Shipley
CJ Spillman
Andy Kemp

Heck, Marlon Lucky is rated as undrafted and he'd probably add more into the W column than Sage.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Roy P

Really?

You don't think we could get a player who contributes in the 5th round? Or are you simply saying that we can't get a 5th round QB who would be as "dependable" as Sage? I think I could find a couple of 5th rounders who might compete for a starting position on this team, how sad is that?

Bear Pascoe
Matt Shaugnessy
Lawrence Sidbury
Corvey Irvin
Dannel Ellerbe
Cedric Peerman
AQ Shipley
CJ Spillman
Andy Kemp

Heck, Marlon Lucky is rated as undrafted and he'd probably add more into the W column than Sage.

NFL teams sink thousands of man hours and millions of dollars into scouting and regularly blow 1st round picks, and yet you are confident you can tell which UDFAs will add to the win column? Talk about the definition of Hubris. The best you can do is work hard to research the publicly available internet data and take a guess. I am confident after years of watching your posts that you do indeed do the best anyone could possibly do in the circumstances, but you are still levels below the guys making the actual picks (mostly due to resources and personal access to players). And they blow it all the time. You are pretending if you think you know what 5th rounders make us better next year.

As for Sage. Kubiak is coaching for his job, and our backup QB will be on the field next year if history is an indicator. Sage has shown himself to be a good NFL backup (no more, no less). We would be hard pressed to improve at that position if we dealt him, and we are not going to turn our team around next year for the 5th you guys advocate taking.

If we had a young coach with a longer leash I'd say Sage is gone in the name of young talent. But as it is, I just don't see them pulling the trigger for a low round pick.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by barrett

The best you can do is work hard to research the publicly available internet data and take a guess.

2004 - RB Michael Turner
2005 - LB Adam Seward
2006 - DE Mark Anderson
2007 - WR Aundae Allison and LB Tim Shaw
2008 - OT Carl Nicks

Those were my 5th round picks over the last 5 years. They aren't Pro-Bowlers, except for Turner (I got lucky), but they were "My Guys" and I'll stand by them. The names that I threw out today were prospects that NFLDraft scout currently has listed as 5th rounders. Invariably, players that they rank as 3rd-4th round projects end up lasting until the 5th round. Turner was given a 2nd-3rd round grade, Seward 3-4th, Anderson 2-3rd, Allison a 3rd round grade and Shaw was ranked 3rd round. Carl Nicks had a 4th round grade after his off-field incident (he had been a 2nd round guy). Given that history, we could possibly end up with Eric Wood or Cody Brown in the 5th this year.

As for getting another backup - Ramsey would be the 1st guy I'd look at. He knows the playbook and can hold his own. Just like Sage.

I'm all for "just" trading down a couple slots to pick up late picks. Now if we can "just" find a willing trade partner to make that happen.

[dalemurphy]

Originally Posted by Roy P

Really?

You don't think we could get a player who contributes in the 5th round? Or are you simply saying that we can't get a 5th round QB who would be as "dependable" as Sage? I think I could find a couple of 5th rounders who might compete for a starting position on this team, how sad is that?

Bear Pascoe
Matt Shaugnessy
Lawrence Sidbury
Corvey Irvin
Dannel Ellerbe
Cedric Peerman
AQ Shipley
CJ Spillman
Andy Kemp

Heck, Marlon Lucky is rated as undrafted and he'd probably add more into the W column than Sage.

If there's a guy we like in the 5th round, I'd rather just trade down 4 spots in the 1st and pick up a 3rd and a 5th... or, trade down in the second 3 spots and pick up a 5th. Makes a lot more sense than turning a strength (QB depth) into a weakness for pick #145 in the draft. By the way, how have these draft picks helped the team:

Brandon Harrison
Brandon Frye
Frank Okam... those are our 5th rounders since 2006- I would not trade Sage Rosefels for any of those guys, and I was a huge fan of Brandon Frye going into last season.

[BigBull]

Everyone quit drinking the Sage cool aid and wakeup and smell the coffee. He is average to below average at best.

[dalemurphy]

Originally Posted by BigBull

Everyone quit drinking the Sage cool aid and wakeup and smell the coffee. He is average to below average at best.

Okay, then I'd like to see your list of 17 backup QBs who you think are better... Not only that, but guys that would be better for the Texans next year.

I'm the same guy who screamed insanity when people were calling for Sage to start of Schaub after the '07 season. I've got a very good idea who he is. The disagreement isn't about Sage's talent but about the importance of a backup QB. I think they're important. Some of you would trade a proven backup for a 5th round pick without worrying about what you'd replace him with. I find that ludicrous!

[BigBull]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

Okay, then I'd like to see your list of 17 backup QBs who you think are better... Not only that, but guys that would be better for the Texans next year.

This is the first 17 off the top of my head. I sure if I looked all 32 teams backups the list would change some.
1. Matt Cassel
2. Matt Leinart
3. Jeff Garcia
4. Derek Anderson
5. Byron Leftwich
6. Patrick Ramsey
7. Chris Simms
8. J.P. Losman
9. Brian Griese
10. Troy Smith
11. Billy Volek
12. Seneca Wallace
13. Kevin Kolb
14. Luke McCown
15. Josh McCown
16. Charlie Whitehurst
17. Brian Brohm

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

If there's a guy we like in the 5th round, I'd rather just trade down 4 spots in the 1st and pick up a 3rd and a 5th... or, trade down in the second 3 spots and pick up a 5th. Makes a lot more sense than turning a strength (QB depth) into a weakness for pick #145 in the draft. By the way, how have these draft picks helped the team:

Brandon Harrison
Brandon Frye
Frank Okam... those are our 5th rounders since 2006- I would not trade Sage Rosefels for any of those guys, and I was a huge fan of Brandon Frye going into last season.

In this year draft where we are picking, dropping down in the 1st is a smart move, not much difference in player #15 and player #40. But there are a lot of 2nd 3rd round guys. I am almost to the point of thinking about dropping out of this year 1st, and adding as many mid round guys as I can.

[Joshua]

I tend to agree with Keith that some may be overvaluing Sage's value in comparison with other potential backups. I pulled up Sage's game logs from last year to remind myself of what he did. Here's what he did, he went 2-3 as a starter and also played significant minutes in the Minnesota game (another loss). Why exactly is a guy who went 2-4 for us last year so valuable to the win column? While it is clearly speculation, had we traded Sage for the 3rd rounder and signed Leftwich, I don't think there is any way he would have been worse than 1-5 in Sage's place. At the very least, I think Leftwich would have won the Cleveland game, as we held them to 6 points and Sage didn't do us any favors by throwing 2 picks. Then, there's a very decent chance that Leftwich would have been as good or better.

The bottom line is that Sage didn't help us win last year. I think virtually any backup would have won the Cleveland game. Now, maybe Sage helped us win the Jacksonville game when another backup would not have, but, to me, that one game doesn't warrant turning down a 4th or 5 round pick, if you could get it. (Not to mention that another backup might not have turned into the Rosenchopter).

[Keith]

Originally Posted by barrett

So I don't see a deal going down unless it makes us a better team next year and no way does a 5th round pick do that.

So you're saying Sage makes the Texans better? I have to think about that one myself actually.

Even if he does, it seems a bit presumptuous to think there isn't another UFA who might be just as serviceable if needed in 2009. A few potential UFAs that might work well here as a #2 (in additional to whatever trade compensation the team would get for Rosenfels): J.P. Losman, Patrick Ramsey (who had been pursued by the Texans once upon a time), J.T. O'Sullivan, Jeff Garcia (also once pursued by the Texans), Charlie Frye, Kyle Boller, Byron Leftwich...

I can understand that there might be some unbridled Sage love around here, but I think the "step down" to any of these is a pretty short one, esp if you give that Texans warroom a shot at another draft pick.

I just find it REALLY hard to believe that any team is asking the Texans for Sage just hoping he might come in to compete as a starter, including the Jets. If I were the Jets, I think I would prefer rolling the dice with either Ratliff or Clemens than try to bring in Rosenfels.