[Speculation] Sage to the Jets?

[barrett]

you explained it perfectly in your post. Every loss is to a 10+ win team. We generally lose to those teams anyways. almost all of the teams he beat are average or bad. Again, generally how we play with Schaub. So by your own stats we don't face a big let down when Sage comes on the field.

I think Sage is nowhere near Schaub as a QB, and I think the more he plays the more his returns diminish because he takes so many chances that the more a team prepares for him the more they will take advantage of him. This is what makes him a bad full-time starter. But as a last minute spot starter, or reliever, there are almost no backups I'd rather have. He will move the ball and give us a chance to win. If you guys think any old scrap heap vet accomplishes the same, we will simply have to disagree. Especially since he is 4 years in the offense.

But the bottom line is if there are so many equal or greater backup QBs in the NFL, then why would any team oblige you in your trade scenario and give up a pick for him? Why not just sign Jeff Garcia or someone else. Your argument is flawed if you say on the one hand we can get a pick for him, and on the other he is instantly replaced with no effort.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by barrett

But the bottom line is if there are so many equal or greater backup QBs in the NFL, then why would any team oblige you in your trade scenario and give up a pick for him? Why not just sign Jeff Garcia or someone else. Your argument is flawed if you say on the one hand we can get a pick for him, and on the other he is instantly replaced with no effort.

First, I think you're right that no one will offer much for him. However, to address your point, where I think you somewhat go wrong here is the assumption that both the Texans and the team they are trading with are looking for a backup QB. If that were the case, I agree with your point. However, I think most are operating under the assumption that the team trading for Sage view him as a potential starter. That's where the difference in value comes in.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Joshua

First, I think you're right that no one will offer much for him. However, to address your point, where I think you somewhat go wrong here is the assumption that both the Texans and the team they are trading with are looking for a backup QB. If that were the case, I agree with your point. However, I think most are operating under the assumption that the team trading for Sage view him as a potential starter. That's where the difference in value comes in.

Further up the page Nero already stated that the argument is about how valuable sage is, not how valuable a backup QB is.

I just don't see any team offering enough to make it worth getting rid of him. I think his value is greater to us than any other team since he has been in our system for 4 years and we often need a backup to come in.

As for other teams, I don't think any are looking at the off-season thinking, "If only we can pry Sage Rosenfels away from the Texans..."

[nero THE zero]

Originally Posted by barrett

Further up the page Nero already stated that the argument is about how valuable sage is, not how valuable a backup QB is.

I just don't see any team offering enough to make it worth getting rid of him. I think his value is greater to us than any other team since he has been in our system for 4 years and we often need a backup to come in.

As for other teams, I don't think any are looking at the off-season thinking, "If only we can pry Sage Rosenfels away from the Texans..."

There's always teams that will place a different value on a player than you will. There's a balance of need and perceived value that you have to take into account. We have a starting QB and his name is Matt Schaub. We have a back-up QB who has flashed the ability to be a good player. Obviously, after this season, Sage's value will not be nearly as high as it was after the 2007 season. But, that's not to say that there's not a team out there without a starting QB (Jets, Chiefs, Vikings, etc.) that thinks they could take a veteran player who has flashed with other teams into their starting guy.

Remember, my premise isn't necessarily that Sage is a bad player. I think that due to his Thursday night game, his near comeback against the Tacks, and being in the position that affords him to be the most popular guy in town he is . He's simply not untradeable he is overvalued by some. But the job he does as our back-up QB can be done by many other veteran retreads. Do you not think that a Kyle Boller couldn't come in here and throw 3 picks in a loss to double digit wins teams whilst looking like the second coming of Joe Montana against the 4 win Browns?

I don't think that a team would give up a high pick for him. But, if the Jets came calling with a fourth or fifth round pick I think it's a no-brainer. Fact is, what Sage has done for us isn't inrreplacable and if you can get a decent pick for him you take it. Building a good team often entails taking commodities (re: decent back-up players with trade potential) and dealing them.

[jppaul]

I would trade Sage for a 4th but I don't think I would go for a 5th for several reasons. He may be a turnover machine but he is a better backup than most, Schuab is a good QB but is fragile, Sage knows the system and has actually won some games for us, the 5th round has not been all that profitable for us as far as finding diamonds in the rough. For the foregoing I say keep him for another year.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by nero THE zero

There's always teams that will place a different value on a player than you will. There's a balance of need and perceived value that you have to take into account. We have a starting QB and his name is Matt Schaub. We have a back-up QB who has flashed the ability to be a good player. Obviously, after this season, Sage's value will not be nearly as high as it was after the 2007 season. But, that's not to say that there's not a team out there without a starting QB (Jets, Chiefs, Vikings, etc.) that thinks they could take a veteran player who has flashed with other teams into their starting guy.

Remember, my premise isn't necessarily that Sage is a bad player. I think that due to his Thursday night game, his near comeback against the Tacks, and being in the position that affords him to be the most popular guy in town he is . He's simply not untradeable he is overvalued by some. But the job he does as our back-up QB can be done by many other veteran retreads. Do you not think that a Kyle Boller couldn't come in here and throw 3 picks in a loss to double digit wins teams whilst looking like the second coming of Joe Montana against the 4 win Browns?

I don't think that a team would give up a high pick for him. But, if the Jets came calling with a fourth or fifth round pick I think it's a no-brainer. Fact is, what Sage has done for us isn't inrreplacable and if you can get a decent pick for him you take it. Building a good team often entails taking commodities (re: decent back-up players with trade potential) and dealing them.

No Boller could not come in and do it. He could not win on a winning team. A rookie QB who completed 50% of his passes (Flacco) looked good on a team Boller was terrible with. Troy Smith looked better than Boller when he played. You are dreaming if you think Boller plays anywhere near the level of Sage or any other decent NFL backup.

As for the Jets coming to offer a 4th or a 5th, it will never happen. They only gave up a 4th for Brett Favre. The shine is way off of Sage from where it was in 2007. We'd be luck to get a 6th right now. He is worth more on our team than he is off of it right now.

[nero THE zero]

Originally Posted by barrett

No Boller could not come in and do it. He could not win on a winning team. A rookie QB who completed 50% of his passes (Flacco) looked good on a team Boller was terrible with. Troy Smith looked better than Boller when he played. You are dreaming if you think Boller plays anywhere near the level of Sage or any other decent NFL backup.

As for the Jets coming to offer a 4th or a 5th, it will never happen. They only gave up a 4th for Brett Favre. The shine is way off of Sage from where it was in 2007. We'd be luck to get a 6th right now. He is worth more on our team than he is off of it right now.

746 1,311 56.9% 45 44
351 562 62.5% 30 29
511 913 56% 35 30
558 941 59.3% 33 34

Markedly different players. Don't know what I was thining.