[Speculation] Sage to the Jets?

[dalemurphy]

Originally Posted by Roy P

Really?

You don't think we could get a player who contributes in the 5th round? Or are you simply saying that we can't get a 5th round QB who would be as "dependable" as Sage? I think I could find a couple of 5th rounders who might compete for a starting position on this team, how sad is that?

Bear Pascoe
Matt Shaugnessy
Lawrence Sidbury
Corvey Irvin
Dannel Ellerbe
Cedric Peerman
AQ Shipley
CJ Spillman
Andy Kemp

Heck, Marlon Lucky is rated as undrafted and he'd probably add more into the W column than Sage.

If there's a guy we like in the 5th round, I'd rather just trade down 4 spots in the 1st and pick up a 3rd and a 5th... or, trade down in the second 3 spots and pick up a 5th. Makes a lot more sense than turning a strength (QB depth) into a weakness for pick #145 in the draft. By the way, how have these draft picks helped the team:

Brandon Harrison
Brandon Frye
Frank Okam... those are our 5th rounders since 2006- I would not trade Sage Rosefels for any of those guys, and I was a huge fan of Brandon Frye going into last season.

[BigBull]

Everyone quit drinking the Sage cool aid and wakeup and smell the coffee. He is average to below average at best.

[dalemurphy]

Originally Posted by BigBull

Everyone quit drinking the Sage cool aid and wakeup and smell the coffee. He is average to below average at best.

Okay, then I'd like to see your list of 17 backup QBs who you think are better... Not only that, but guys that would be better for the Texans next year.

I'm the same guy who screamed insanity when people were calling for Sage to start of Schaub after the '07 season. I've got a very good idea who he is. The disagreement isn't about Sage's talent but about the importance of a backup QB. I think they're important. Some of you would trade a proven backup for a 5th round pick without worrying about what you'd replace him with. I find that ludicrous!

[BigBull]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

Okay, then I'd like to see your list of 17 backup QBs who you think are better... Not only that, but guys that would be better for the Texans next year.

This is the first 17 off the top of my head. I sure if I looked all 32 teams backups the list would change some.
1. Matt Cassel
2. Matt Leinart
3. Jeff Garcia
4. Derek Anderson
5. Byron Leftwich
6. Patrick Ramsey
7. Chris Simms
8. J.P. Losman
9. Brian Griese
10. Troy Smith
11. Billy Volek
12. Seneca Wallace
13. Kevin Kolb
14. Luke McCown
15. Josh McCown
16. Charlie Whitehurst
17. Brian Brohm

[barrett]

that's a pathetic list.

outside of Cassell who is no longer a backup and Garcia who hasn't been for years there is not a QB better than Sage on there.

Sage is a turnover machine. He forces throws that his arm don't allow him to get away with. The more he plays, the worse he does. When he starts, teams prepare for Sage he looks bad because they capitalize on his weaknesses. This is why he is a backup. Half of you arguing against him were calling for him to start back during the season. Roy was one of the only voices outside of my own who never trumpeted him over Schaub.

But with that said, Sage moves a team up and down the field as well as any backup QB and better than many starters. The more he plays, the more the returns diminish, but he is a great guy to pull off the bench or to spot start.

Additionally, it is obvious Kubiak likes him. I don't see him surrendering him for just a guy since he is coaching for his job this year.

[Joshua]

FYI, here is a pre-season list of the top backups by Don Banks of SI.com -

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...08/26/backups/

The list has some problems (like Cassell being left off because he thought he would get cut after a terrible preseason). However, Sage ranked 3rd (and that's probably about right). Nevertheless, there are several guys at the bottom that I think would perform well enough to warrant moving Sage if you could get something in return. I could get by with Tyler Thigpen, Matt Moore, Byron Leftwich, Ramsey, Boller or Frerotte.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by barrett

that's a pathetic list.

outside of Cassell who is no longer a backup and Garcia who hasn't been for years there is not a QB better than Sage on there.

Sage is a turnover machine. He forces throws that his arm don't allow him to get away with. The more he plays, the worse he does. When he starts, teams prepare for Sage he looks bad because they capitalize on his weaknesses. This is why he is a backup. Half of you arguing against him were calling for him to start back during the season. Roy was one of the only voices outside of my own who never trumpeted him over Schaub.

But with that said, Sage moves a team up and down the field as well as any backup QB and better than many starters. The more he plays, the more the returns diminish, but he is a great guy to pull off the bench or to spot start.

Additionally, it is obvious Kubiak likes him. I don't see him surrendering him for just a guy since he is coaching for his job this year.

Don't disagree that Sage is probably one of the better ones, but even so, I think that misses the point a little bit. A number of these guys would probably give you 90% of what Sage does. In my opinion, the opportunity to get another draft pick offsets what little extra value Sage might give you.

I think you're spot on with your analysis of Sage and he can move the ball in spot duty. However, the bottom line is he went 2-4 last year, with 1 win being a Rex Grossman special (a 16-6 win where Sage threw 2 picks). I don't see how anyone can think Sage had any significant impact on us winning games last year. And if he didn't, why is he so valuable?

[popanot]

Garcia would be a huge upgrade to Sage (especially a short-term upgrade), IMO. However, this trade talk is silly. No team in their right mind would give anything for Sage. He was worth something before the start of last season, but his play pretty much wiped out any value he had. Plus, Kubiak seems comfortable with him so he probably wouldn't trade him unless it was an outrageous offer, which is not going to happen.

[dalemurphy]

Originally Posted by Joshua

Don't disagree that Sage is probably one of the better ones, but even so, I think that misses the point a little bit. A number of these guys would probably give you 90% of what Sage does. In my opinion, the opportunity to get another draft pick offsets what little extra value Sage might give you.

I think you're spot on with your analysis of Sage and he can move the ball in spot duty. However, the bottom line is he went 2-4 last year, with 1 win being a Rex Grossman special (a 16-6 win where Sage threw 2 picks). I don't see how anyone can think Sage had any significant impact on us winning games last year. And if he didn't, why is he so valuable?

Sage had a winnng record in 2007. Are you arguing that he's on the downside of his career? The point is that Sage knows the offense, can run it with some efficiency and doesn't really limit what we do when he's in the game. The idea that a team playing for something would trade him away for a late round pick without an answer in place at that position is foolish, especially considering Schaub's inability to play a full season to this point in his career. Everyone loves draft picks. It certainly makes the off-season more exciting, but I don't want to be sitting in the stands watching Craig Nall handoff 45 times while staring at the 5th round pick with my binnoculars sitting on the bench, which is what most rookie 5th round picks do.

[dalemurphy]

Originally Posted by BigBull

This is the first 17 off the top of my head. I sure if I looked all 32 teams backups the list would change some.
1. Matt Cassel - he's getting paid $14.5 million this year
2. Matt Leinart - he's getting paid a lot and hasn't proven anything
3. Jeff Garcia - 39 years old but a possibility
4. Derek Anderson-he's getting $7 million per year and would cost a lot in a trade
5. Byron Leftwich - doesn't get rid of the ball
6. Patrick Ramsey - why on earth do you think he's better
7. Chris Simms - I guess it's possible but I wouldn't trust him
8. J.P. Losman - He might fit in our system, acutally
9. Brian Griese - about the same player as Sage but teammates don't like him
10. Troy Smith - huh?
11. Billy Volek - in 2003
12. Seneca Wallace - you're delirious
13. Kevin Kolb - yeah, he looked great coming in for McNabb
14. Luke McCown - well, he's scheduled to start
15. Josh McCown - he completes almost 1/2 his passes
16. Charlie Whitehurst - that's obnoxious
17. Brian Brohm- based on what evidence?

Clearly you aren't interested in reason. You are just going to throw out a bunch of names and refuse to see any logic.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

If there's a guy we like in the 5th round, I'd rather just trade down 4 spots in the 1st and pick up a 3rd and a 5th... or, trade down in the second 3 spots and pick up a 5th. Makes a lot more sense than turning a strength (QB depth) into a weakness for pick #145 in the draft. By the way, how have these draft picks helped the team:

Brandon Harrison
Brandon Frye
Frank Okam... those are our 5th rounders since 2006- I would not trade Sage Rosefels for any of those guys, and I was a huge fan of Brandon Frye going into last season.

In this year draft where we are picking, dropping down in the 1st is a smart move, not much difference in player #15 and player #40. But there are a lot of 2nd 3rd round guys. I am almost to the point of thinking about dropping out of this year 1st, and adding as many mid round guys as I can.

[Joshua]

I tend to agree with Keith that some may be overvaluing Sage's value in comparison with other potential backups. I pulled up Sage's game logs from last year to remind myself of what he did. Here's what he did, he went 2-3 as a starter and also played significant minutes in the Minnesota game (another loss). Why exactly is a guy who went 2-4 for us last year so valuable to the win column? While it is clearly speculation, had we traded Sage for the 3rd rounder and signed Leftwich, I don't think there is any way he would have been worse than 1-5 in Sage's place. At the very least, I think Leftwich would have won the Cleveland game, as we held them to 6 points and Sage didn't do us any favors by throwing 2 picks. Then, there's a very decent chance that Leftwich would have been as good or better.

The bottom line is that Sage didn't help us win last year. I think virtually any backup would have won the Cleveland game. Now, maybe Sage helped us win the Jacksonville game when another backup would not have, but, to me, that one game doesn't warrant turning down a 4th or 5 round pick, if you could get it. (Not to mention that another backup might not have turned into the Rosenchopter).