[Speculation] Sage to the Jets?

[BigBull]

Everyone quit drinking the Sage cool aid and wakeup and smell the coffee. He is average to below average at best.

[dalemurphy]

Originally Posted by BigBull

Everyone quit drinking the Sage cool aid and wakeup and smell the coffee. He is average to below average at best.

Okay, then I'd like to see your list of 17 backup QBs who you think are better... Not only that, but guys that would be better for the Texans next year.

I'm the same guy who screamed insanity when people were calling for Sage to start of Schaub after the '07 season. I've got a very good idea who he is. The disagreement isn't about Sage's talent but about the importance of a backup QB. I think they're important. Some of you would trade a proven backup for a 5th round pick without worrying about what you'd replace him with. I find that ludicrous!

[BigBull]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

Okay, then I'd like to see your list of 17 backup QBs who you think are better... Not only that, but guys that would be better for the Texans next year.

This is the first 17 off the top of my head. I sure if I looked all 32 teams backups the list would change some.
1. Matt Cassel
2. Matt Leinart
3. Jeff Garcia
4. Derek Anderson
5. Byron Leftwich
6. Patrick Ramsey
7. Chris Simms
8. J.P. Losman
9. Brian Griese
10. Troy Smith
11. Billy Volek
12. Seneca Wallace
13. Kevin Kolb
14. Luke McCown
15. Josh McCown
16. Charlie Whitehurst
17. Brian Brohm

[barrett]

that's a pathetic list.

outside of Cassell who is no longer a backup and Garcia who hasn't been for years there is not a QB better than Sage on there.

Sage is a turnover machine. He forces throws that his arm don't allow him to get away with. The more he plays, the worse he does. When he starts, teams prepare for Sage he looks bad because they capitalize on his weaknesses. This is why he is a backup. Half of you arguing against him were calling for him to start back during the season. Roy was one of the only voices outside of my own who never trumpeted him over Schaub.

But with that said, Sage moves a team up and down the field as well as any backup QB and better than many starters. The more he plays, the more the returns diminish, but he is a great guy to pull off the bench or to spot start.

Additionally, it is obvious Kubiak likes him. I don't see him surrendering him for just a guy since he is coaching for his job this year.

[Joshua]

FYI, here is a pre-season list of the top backups by Don Banks of SI.com -

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...08/26/backups/

The list has some problems (like Cassell being left off because he thought he would get cut after a terrible preseason). However, Sage ranked 3rd (and that's probably about right). Nevertheless, there are several guys at the bottom that I think would perform well enough to warrant moving Sage if you could get something in return. I could get by with Tyler Thigpen, Matt Moore, Byron Leftwich, Ramsey, Boller or Frerotte.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by barrett

that's a pathetic list.

outside of Cassell who is no longer a backup and Garcia who hasn't been for years there is not a QB better than Sage on there.

Sage is a turnover machine. He forces throws that his arm don't allow him to get away with. The more he plays, the worse he does. When he starts, teams prepare for Sage he looks bad because they capitalize on his weaknesses. This is why he is a backup. Half of you arguing against him were calling for him to start back during the season. Roy was one of the only voices outside of my own who never trumpeted him over Schaub.

But with that said, Sage moves a team up and down the field as well as any backup QB and better than many starters. The more he plays, the more the returns diminish, but he is a great guy to pull off the bench or to spot start.

Additionally, it is obvious Kubiak likes him. I don't see him surrendering him for just a guy since he is coaching for his job this year.

Don't disagree that Sage is probably one of the better ones, but even so, I think that misses the point a little bit. A number of these guys would probably give you 90% of what Sage does. In my opinion, the opportunity to get another draft pick offsets what little extra value Sage might give you.

I think you're spot on with your analysis of Sage and he can move the ball in spot duty. However, the bottom line is he went 2-4 last year, with 1 win being a Rex Grossman special (a 16-6 win where Sage threw 2 picks). I don't see how anyone can think Sage had any significant impact on us winning games last year. And if he didn't, why is he so valuable?

[popanot]

Garcia would be a huge upgrade to Sage (especially a short-term upgrade), IMO. However, this trade talk is silly. No team in their right mind would give anything for Sage. He was worth something before the start of last season, but his play pretty much wiped out any value he had. Plus, Kubiak seems comfortable with him so he probably wouldn't trade him unless it was an outrageous offer, which is not going to happen.

[dalemurphy]

Originally Posted by Joshua

Don't disagree that Sage is probably one of the better ones, but even so, I think that misses the point a little bit. A number of these guys would probably give you 90% of what Sage does. In my opinion, the opportunity to get another draft pick offsets what little extra value Sage might give you.

I think you're spot on with your analysis of Sage and he can move the ball in spot duty. However, the bottom line is he went 2-4 last year, with 1 win being a Rex Grossman special (a 16-6 win where Sage threw 2 picks). I don't see how anyone can think Sage had any significant impact on us winning games last year. And if he didn't, why is he so valuable?

Sage had a winnng record in 2007. Are you arguing that he's on the downside of his career? The point is that Sage knows the offense, can run it with some efficiency and doesn't really limit what we do when he's in the game. The idea that a team playing for something would trade him away for a late round pick without an answer in place at that position is foolish, especially considering Schaub's inability to play a full season to this point in his career. Everyone loves draft picks. It certainly makes the off-season more exciting, but I don't want to be sitting in the stands watching Craig Nall handoff 45 times while staring at the 5th round pick with my binnoculars sitting on the bench, which is what most rookie 5th round picks do.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

Sage had a winnng record in 2007. Are you arguing that he's on the downside of his career? The point is that Sage knows the offense, can run it with some efficiency and doesn't really limit what we do when he's in the game. The idea that a team playing for something would trade him away for a late round pick without an answer in place at that position is foolish, especially considering Schaub's inability to play a full season to this point in his career. Everyone loves draft picks. It certainly makes the off-season more exciting, but I don't want to be sitting in the stands watching Craig Nall handoff 45 times while staring at the 5th round pick with my binnoculars sitting on the bench, which is what most rookie 5th round picks do.

Although he will be 31 in 1 month, I wouldn't argue he is on the downside of his career. I would argue that 2008 is indicative of his career and that 2007 was the anomaly (at least as to his ability to lead a team to victories). I don't think he's a guy who can routinely win 60-70% of his games. I think he is more like the guy he was this year and realistically can win 40-50% of his games if he gets a couple of good breaks. While that probably puts him in the upper echelon of backups, I don't think it makes him that much better.

As for not having an answer in place, I guess I would disagree that finding a replacement would be that hard and I see no reason why we would end up with a Craig Nall. Every year there are veterans like Mark Brunell, Brad Johnson, Jeff Garcia, etc. who are begging to catch on with teams. Then you've got the Ramseys, Bollers, Leftwichs, and Losmans of the world who are younger but never quite lived up to expectations (at least as starters). I don't think it would be difficult for the Texans to land one of these guys (much like we picked up Quinn Gray last year). Even if Sage were better, I think the difference between Sage and most of these guys is probably only a game or 2 at most.

While draft picks are no guarantee, I would roll the dice with a 5th rounder and some veteran to be named later. While you may be right and we end up with Schaub injured and a terrible QB tanking our season while our draft pick rides the pine, I would rather think that Schaub stays healthy, we grab a cheap backup who can do the job if necessary, and have a draft pick that looks like a steal.

Quite frankly, unless Schaub stays healthy and we get a few more draft picks right, all of this is moot because we probably aren't good enough to win consistently unless both of these things happen.

[dalemurphy]

Originally Posted by BigBull

This is the first 17 off the top of my head. I sure if I looked all 32 teams backups the list would change some.
1. Matt Cassel - he's getting paid $14.5 million this year
2. Matt Leinart - he's getting paid a lot and hasn't proven anything
3. Jeff Garcia - 39 years old but a possibility
4. Derek Anderson-he's getting $7 million per year and would cost a lot in a trade
5. Byron Leftwich - doesn't get rid of the ball
6. Patrick Ramsey - why on earth do you think he's better
7. Chris Simms - I guess it's possible but I wouldn't trust him
8. J.P. Losman - He might fit in our system, acutally
9. Brian Griese - about the same player as Sage but teammates don't like him
10. Troy Smith - huh?
11. Billy Volek - in 2003
12. Seneca Wallace - you're delirious
13. Kevin Kolb - yeah, he looked great coming in for McNabb
14. Luke McCown - well, he's scheduled to start
15. Josh McCown - he completes almost 1/2 his passes
16. Charlie Whitehurst - that's obnoxious
17. Brian Brohm- based on what evidence?

Clearly you aren't interested in reason. You are just going to throw out a bunch of names and refuse to see any logic.