Injury to Texans' Brisiel appears to be season-ending

[WMH]

Well, it looks like we may get a glimpse of Caldwell whether we like it or not..... Starting O-Lineman #2 goes down for the year

From the chronic:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...t/6664525.html

"Right guard Mike Brisiel suffered what’s expected to be a season-ending foot injury during Sunday’s 28-21 loss at Arizona.

Kasey Studdard replaced Pitts. Rookie Antoine Caldwell and veteran Chris White will compete to see who’s going to start in place of Brisiel, who played every snap last season when the Texans averaged 115.4 yards a game and 4.3 yards a carry.

Caldwell, 6-3, 305, is a third-round pick from Alabama who has played center and guard.

“He worked a bunch (at right guard),” Kubiak said. “He worked at center in training camp so he could (learn to make) the calls. Since then, he’s basically been working at guard.”

White, 6-2, 290, is a five-year veteran. "

[Roy P]

Please, for the love of God, let Antoine play so we can see some movement along the line of scrimmage!!!! I'm already wondering if we need to draft Sergio Render or Mike Johnson. One is from Va Tech and the other is from Bama, so I know we have scouts at their games.

[painekiller]

We are in trouble now, is Fred Weary available to play?

[mussop]

Originally Posted by Roy P

Please, for the love of God, let Antoine play so we can see some movement along the line of scrimmage!!!! I'm already wondering if we need to draft Sergio Render or Mike Johnson. One is from Va Tech and the other is from Bama, so I know we have scouts at their games.

I like both of these guys alot. I still say we should of drafted Oher and Mack 1, 2 last draft. Both are starting and looking good.

I know alot of people here are high on him but im worried about Caldwell. I watched him alot in college and despite Bama running a similar scheme, I didnt think he was mobile enough for us. In college he had problems leaning forward too much and getting off balance in space. Hopefully they corrected that since. Guess we'll find out Sunday.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by mussop

I like both of these guys alot. I still say we should of drafted Oher and Mack 1, 2 last draft. Both are starting and looking good.

Definitely Oher. I mean all of us now like Cushing, but OTs are just more important than SAMs. We could have moved Winston inside and had Brown and Oher at OTs. That's why a team should place a higher priority on BPA than need with their first round picks.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by painekiller

We are in trouble now, is Fred Weary available to play?

He works out at a gym in Bellaire. He is around.

[NBT]

[QUOTE=nunusguy;1489 OTs are just more important than SAMs.[/QUOTE]

You gotta open holes to score for sure, but you also need to stuff those holes when your opponent has the ball. I just don't understand your statement. LB's are just as important to winning as OT's IMO.

[mussop]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

Definitely Oher. I mean all of us now like Cushing, but OTs are just more important than SAMs. We could have moved Winston inside and had Brown and Oher at OTs. That's why a team should place a higher priority on BPA than need with their first round picks.

After rereading my post im not sure I worded that well. I meant Oher in the first and Mack in the Second round.

[mussop]

Originally Posted by NBT

You gotta open holes to score for sure, but you also need to stuff those holes when your opponent has the ball. I just don't understand your statement. LB's are just as important to winning as OT's IMO.

Games are won and lost in the trenches. It doesnt matter how many great skill position guys you have if you cant block long enough to get them the ball, you will never score and therefore you will never win. Thats why you hear so many GM's say you should always build fron the inside out. No way is an OLB as important as a OT.

In fact no LB is as important as the DL in front of him. A LB is only as good as the DL in front of him. The best LB in the world isnt going to make a difference if the DL in front of him isnt capable of doing their job.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by NBT

You gotta open holes to score for sure, but you also need to stuff those holes when your opponent has the ball. I just don't understand your statement. LB's are just as important to winning as OT's IMO.

There's certain positions that are simply recognized as "the" premium positions", namely QB, OT, CB, 4-3 DLinemen, and OLB "in the 3-4 defense".

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by Mike

He works out at a gym in Bellaire. He is around.

But can he play, he was cut by Browns after only a few weeks.

Brandon Frye is now starting for the Seahawks, so he is unavailable.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by painekiller

But can he play, he was cut by Browns after only a few weeks.

Brandon Frye is now starting for the Seahawks, so he is unavailable.

I think we dress Caldwell, bring up the guy from the PS to the active roster. (Stephanovich sp) and sign someone else to the PS. We puled Briesel off the scrap heap, so someone who has been practicing and in the system should have a leg up.

Lance Z was talking about Stephanovich this AM, thinks he has decent skills.

I am not sure the Texans will be eager to bring back Fred, especially after the Outside the Lines piece.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by NBT

You gotta open holes to score for sure, but you also need to stuff those holes when your opponent has the ball. I just don't understand your statement. LB's are just as important to winning as OT's IMO.

I think you are both right. LBs are just as important to winning as OTs.

However, you find good LBs all over the NFL and teams generally have no trouble procuring them. Undrafted LBs consistently have great success in the NFL while I don't know of any undrafted OTs who play at a high level.

Basic supply and demand here rather than whether a LB or OT helps you win more.

[NBT]

"Build from the inside out", meaning build the offense first. My reply to that is what the heck have we been doing since Kubes got here, if not building from within? I mean most of his first few drafts were heavy on offense. So, Now we have to build from the outside, meaning defense. Cushing has easily done for us on defense what Winston and Brown have done for us on offense - stabilize us. How can you possibly argue with that?

[mussop]

Originally Posted by NBT

"Build from the inside out", meaning build the offense first. My reply to that is what the heck have we been doing since Kubes got here, if not building from within? I mean most of his first few drafts were heavy on offense. So, Now we have to build from the outside, meaning defense. Cushing has easily done for us on defense what Winston and Brown have done for us on offense - stabilize us. How can you possibly argue with that?

Building from the "inside out" means you start with the trenches (offense and defense) then work youre way out. Trenches = OL/DL.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by mussop

Thats why you hear so many GM's say you should always build fron the inside out. No way is an OLB as important as a OT.

We drafted Duane Brown before we drafted Cushing, right?

Now you can say that we should get a RG, but do we justify an interior OL more important than LB?

[mussop]

Originally Posted by Roy P

We drafted Duane Brown before we drafted Cushing, right?

Now you can say that we should get a RG, but do we justify an interior OL more important than LB?

Yes we did. Do you consider this OL a finished product? Do you think we can win a champoinship with the current line?

Too youre second question, YES! Have you ever seen a team allow as much pressure from the middle as we do? The current interior/depth of this line is unnaceptable for a team that has championship aspirations. We have all seen what Shaub can do when given time. We have also seen what happens when we dont. We have some great skill players on this offense but none are as important as Schaub. If he isnt protected this whole team suffers. If he gets hurt this team takes a nose dive. There shouldnt be anything more important than getting him the protection he needs to get his job done.

[mussop]

Another thing. By no means am I suggesting reach for ANY position. But if you have the chance to draft an OL that is BPA and is versital enough to play inside (OG) or outside (OT) then hell yes take him over any LB.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by mussop

Do you consider this OL a finished product? Do you think we can win a champoinship with the current line?


Have you ever seen a team allow as much pressure from the middle as we do?

No, no, and ummmm no.

I've advocated drafting interior linemen. The question has been, what's a "reach" for getting them in the draft. I was wanting Eric Wood in the 2nd round, he was a first round pick by the Bills last year. I considered Max Unger in the 2nd, but had Barwin as a 1st round talent that was the BPA, so I couldn't fault the Texans because the defense NEEDED a pass-rushing specialist opposite of Mario. I looked at Caldwell as being a 4th round talent when we took him in the 3rd, I was giving more significance to our Secondary and wanted Bulldog CB Asher Allen. However, when we selected in the 4th CB Glover Quinn (who arguably is as good if not better than My Guy Asher), there were not any OL prospects that I was hot after. So perhaps we did a good thing in getting Caldwell when we did.

Go back another draft for a second. We drafted OT Duane Brown in the 1st round, I thought that was a reach but understood the NEED of getting a LT and they were coming off the board quickly. We didn't have a 2nd round pick in that draft. If we had been able to get an OL, I was impressed with Mike Pollack, but would have selected RB Ray Rice instead. In the 3rd round, we drafted CB Antuan Molden and RB Steve Slaton - looking at OL candidates there; I was really high on Jeremy Zuttah.

Moral of the story, the 2nd round is probably the best time to get an impactful OL (especially interior players) but there are probably other impactful players at other positions that will tempt you. The third round is where you can get the best of the "left overs" who haven't been snagged, but can probably start within 2 years. The 4th round and higher are anybody's guess when it comes to OL. I'm not saying you can't get a good OL late in the draft, but on the 2nd day of the draft if you are selecting an OL, you won't be confident that THAT player will be improving your team. So, again, drafting Caldwell in the 3rd was probably smart strategy. We'll be able to see this weekend if that was really the case.

[mussop]

Originally Posted by Roy P

No, no, and ummmm no.

I've advocated drafting interior linemen. The question has been, what's a "reach" for getting them in the draft. I was wanting Eric Wood in the 2nd round, he was a first round pick by the Bills last year. I considered Max Unger in the 2nd, but had Barwin as a 1st round talent that was the BPA, so I couldn't fault the Texans because the defense NEEDED a pass-rushing specialist opposite of Mario. I looked at Caldwell as being a 4th round talent when we took him in the 3rd, I was giving more significance to our Secondary and wanted Bulldog CB Asher Allen. However, when we selected in the 4th CB Glover Quinn (who arguably is as good if not better than My Guy Asher), there were not any OL prospects that I was hot after. So perhaps we did a good thing in getting Caldwell when we did.

Go back another draft for a second. We drafted OT Duane Brown in the 1st round, I thought that was a reach but understood the NEED of getting a LT and they were coming off the board quickly. We didn't have a 2nd round pick in that draft. If we had been able to get an OL, I was impressed with Mike Pollack, but would have selected RB Ray Rice instead. In the 3rd round, we drafted CB Antuan Molden and RB Steve Slaton - looking at OL candidates there; I was really high on Jeremy Zuttah.

Moral of the story, the 2nd round is probably the best time to get an impactful OL (especially interior players) but there are probably other impactful players at other positions that will tempt you. The third round is where you can get the best of the "left overs" who haven't been snagged, but can probably start within 2 years. The 4th round and higher are anybody's guess when it comes to OL. I'm not saying you can't get a good OL late in the draft, but on the 2nd day of the draft if you are selecting an OL, you won't be confident that THAT player will be improving your team. So, again, drafting Caldwell in the 3rd was probably smart strategy. We'll be able to see this weekend if that was really the case.

Ive said this before, I am not as high on Caldwell as most. I watched him alot at Alabama and wasnt that impressed. He has a tendency to reach when in space and get off balance alot. That isnt a good quality to have in this system or any for that matter. Hopefully they have corrected that or he'll have been a wasted pick. I suspect that is why he hasnt cracked the lineup thus far. Hope Im wrong, we'll see.

Anyway my point is I dont see Caldwell as an upgrade. Like I said the OL is to important and not good enough to not upgrade, if you have a quality guy available, that could help immediately. Oher was there for the taking and could of played inside (huge upgrade) and in a pinch swung outside. Cushing has turned out a worthy pick (so far) but IMO Oher was the BPA and a need.

I dont want it to sound like im crying over spilt milk, im not. I like what Cushing has brought to this team physically and attitude wise. Im just saying my priority for building a winning team would be to solidify the trenches first. Thats just my philosophy. Therefore OL and DL will always come before any position unless of course a player at another position is a far superior talent.