Injury to Texans' Brisiel appears to be season-ending

[NBT]

[QUOTE=nunusguy;1489 OTs are just more important than SAMs.[/QUOTE]

You gotta open holes to score for sure, but you also need to stuff those holes when your opponent has the ball. I just don't understand your statement. LB's are just as important to winning as OT's IMO.

[mussop]

Originally Posted by NBT

You gotta open holes to score for sure, but you also need to stuff those holes when your opponent has the ball. I just don't understand your statement. LB's are just as important to winning as OT's IMO.

Games are won and lost in the trenches. It doesnt matter how many great skill position guys you have if you cant block long enough to get them the ball, you will never score and therefore you will never win. Thats why you hear so many GM's say you should always build fron the inside out. No way is an OLB as important as a OT.

In fact no LB is as important as the DL in front of him. A LB is only as good as the DL in front of him. The best LB in the world isnt going to make a difference if the DL in front of him isnt capable of doing their job.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by mussop

Thats why you hear so many GM's say you should always build fron the inside out. No way is an OLB as important as a OT.

We drafted Duane Brown before we drafted Cushing, right?

Now you can say that we should get a RG, but do we justify an interior OL more important than LB?

[mussop]

Originally Posted by Roy P

We drafted Duane Brown before we drafted Cushing, right?

Now you can say that we should get a RG, but do we justify an interior OL more important than LB?

Yes we did. Do you consider this OL a finished product? Do you think we can win a champoinship with the current line?

Too youre second question, YES! Have you ever seen a team allow as much pressure from the middle as we do? The current interior/depth of this line is unnaceptable for a team that has championship aspirations. We have all seen what Shaub can do when given time. We have also seen what happens when we dont. We have some great skill players on this offense but none are as important as Schaub. If he isnt protected this whole team suffers. If he gets hurt this team takes a nose dive. There shouldnt be anything more important than getting him the protection he needs to get his job done.

[mussop]

Another thing. By no means am I suggesting reach for ANY position. But if you have the chance to draft an OL that is BPA and is versital enough to play inside (OG) or outside (OT) then hell yes take him over any LB.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by mussop

Do you consider this OL a finished product? Do you think we can win a champoinship with the current line?


Have you ever seen a team allow as much pressure from the middle as we do?

No, no, and ummmm no.

I've advocated drafting interior linemen. The question has been, what's a "reach" for getting them in the draft. I was wanting Eric Wood in the 2nd round, he was a first round pick by the Bills last year. I considered Max Unger in the 2nd, but had Barwin as a 1st round talent that was the BPA, so I couldn't fault the Texans because the defense NEEDED a pass-rushing specialist opposite of Mario. I looked at Caldwell as being a 4th round talent when we took him in the 3rd, I was giving more significance to our Secondary and wanted Bulldog CB Asher Allen. However, when we selected in the 4th CB Glover Quinn (who arguably is as good if not better than My Guy Asher), there were not any OL prospects that I was hot after. So perhaps we did a good thing in getting Caldwell when we did.

Go back another draft for a second. We drafted OT Duane Brown in the 1st round, I thought that was a reach but understood the NEED of getting a LT and they were coming off the board quickly. We didn't have a 2nd round pick in that draft. If we had been able to get an OL, I was impressed with Mike Pollack, but would have selected RB Ray Rice instead. In the 3rd round, we drafted CB Antuan Molden and RB Steve Slaton - looking at OL candidates there; I was really high on Jeremy Zuttah.

Moral of the story, the 2nd round is probably the best time to get an impactful OL (especially interior players) but there are probably other impactful players at other positions that will tempt you. The third round is where you can get the best of the "left overs" who haven't been snagged, but can probably start within 2 years. The 4th round and higher are anybody's guess when it comes to OL. I'm not saying you can't get a good OL late in the draft, but on the 2nd day of the draft if you are selecting an OL, you won't be confident that THAT player will be improving your team. So, again, drafting Caldwell in the 3rd was probably smart strategy. We'll be able to see this weekend if that was really the case.

[mussop]

Originally Posted by Roy P

No, no, and ummmm no.

I've advocated drafting interior linemen. The question has been, what's a "reach" for getting them in the draft. I was wanting Eric Wood in the 2nd round, he was a first round pick by the Bills last year. I considered Max Unger in the 2nd, but had Barwin as a 1st round talent that was the BPA, so I couldn't fault the Texans because the defense NEEDED a pass-rushing specialist opposite of Mario. I looked at Caldwell as being a 4th round talent when we took him in the 3rd, I was giving more significance to our Secondary and wanted Bulldog CB Asher Allen. However, when we selected in the 4th CB Glover Quinn (who arguably is as good if not better than My Guy Asher), there were not any OL prospects that I was hot after. So perhaps we did a good thing in getting Caldwell when we did.

Go back another draft for a second. We drafted OT Duane Brown in the 1st round, I thought that was a reach but understood the NEED of getting a LT and they were coming off the board quickly. We didn't have a 2nd round pick in that draft. If we had been able to get an OL, I was impressed with Mike Pollack, but would have selected RB Ray Rice instead. In the 3rd round, we drafted CB Antuan Molden and RB Steve Slaton - looking at OL candidates there; I was really high on Jeremy Zuttah.

Moral of the story, the 2nd round is probably the best time to get an impactful OL (especially interior players) but there are probably other impactful players at other positions that will tempt you. The third round is where you can get the best of the "left overs" who haven't been snagged, but can probably start within 2 years. The 4th round and higher are anybody's guess when it comes to OL. I'm not saying you can't get a good OL late in the draft, but on the 2nd day of the draft if you are selecting an OL, you won't be confident that THAT player will be improving your team. So, again, drafting Caldwell in the 3rd was probably smart strategy. We'll be able to see this weekend if that was really the case.

Ive said this before, I am not as high on Caldwell as most. I watched him alot at Alabama and wasnt that impressed. He has a tendency to reach when in space and get off balance alot. That isnt a good quality to have in this system or any for that matter. Hopefully they have corrected that or he'll have been a wasted pick. I suspect that is why he hasnt cracked the lineup thus far. Hope Im wrong, we'll see.

Anyway my point is I dont see Caldwell as an upgrade. Like I said the OL is to important and not good enough to not upgrade, if you have a quality guy available, that could help immediately. Oher was there for the taking and could of played inside (huge upgrade) and in a pinch swung outside. Cushing has turned out a worthy pick (so far) but IMO Oher was the BPA and a need.

I dont want it to sound like im crying over spilt milk, im not. I like what Cushing has brought to this team physically and attitude wise. Im just saying my priority for building a winning team would be to solidify the trenches first. Thats just my philosophy. Therefore OL and DL will always come before any position unless of course a player at another position is a far superior talent.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by mussop

Oher was there for the taking and could of played inside (huge upgrade) and in a pinch swung outside.

Therefore OL and DL will always come before any position unless of course a player at another position is a far superior talent.

Well, that is the thing about matching players with scheme. Oher is a Tackle and would not be drafted in the first round to play G, especially in our ZBS. We had Brown and Winston already on the roster so asking Winston to play G so a rookie could play RT wouldn't have been the prudent thing to do. If we didn't have Brown and we didn't run Gibbs' ZBS, Oher might be a very good pick. Watching him against Odom this past weekend showed he could hold his own as a LT in pass protection.

If I had your commitment to improving the OL instead of the DL in the last draft, then selecting Max Unger instead of Connor Barwin would have been an appropriate choice considering who we have on the roster, the scheme we run, and value of interior linemen.

In the upcoming draft, I'm pretty committed to improving our Secondary. The whole Dunta Robinson drama has left me feeling like we should move on. So, all things being equal I'm going to be focused on FS and CB in the first 2 rounds and then most likely look at RG and RB in the 3rd and 4th rounds. The funny thing is, I feel those are the best rounds to get the most value at those positions. That's based upon looking at the drafts of the last 7 years and when players were selected. Now, if a 1st round talented OL slides to the 2nd round and I believe I can get a decent CB in the 3rd, then I may flip flop my "plan" in that instance. For example, if Selvish Capers is on the board in the 2nd round, I might just have to take him. However, if I can get Jason Fox or Jon Asamoah in the 3rd round, I'll still be a happy Texan.

[Nconroe]

I know the OL wasn't perfect today, but they likely had their best game of the year, didn't they? I thought White and Caldwell both filled in pretty well for Breisel. Slayton and Brown had several good runs that don't count in the stats since called back due to holding and motion penalties. The OL as many on the team seem to be getting more consistent as games go by.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by NBT

You gotta open holes to score for sure, but you also need to stuff those holes when your opponent has the ball. I just don't understand your statement. LB's are just as important to winning as OT's IMO.

There's certain positions that are simply recognized as "the" premium positions", namely QB, OT, CB, 4-3 DLinemen, and OLB "in the 3-4 defense".

[barrett]

Originally Posted by NBT

You gotta open holes to score for sure, but you also need to stuff those holes when your opponent has the ball. I just don't understand your statement. LB's are just as important to winning as OT's IMO.

I think you are both right. LBs are just as important to winning as OTs.

However, you find good LBs all over the NFL and teams generally have no trouble procuring them. Undrafted LBs consistently have great success in the NFL while I don't know of any undrafted OTs who play at a high level.

Basic supply and demand here rather than whether a LB or OT helps you win more.

[NBT]

"Build from the inside out", meaning build the offense first. My reply to that is what the heck have we been doing since Kubes got here, if not building from within? I mean most of his first few drafts were heavy on offense. So, Now we have to build from the outside, meaning defense. Cushing has easily done for us on defense what Winston and Brown have done for us on offense - stabilize us. How can you possibly argue with that?

[mussop]

Originally Posted by NBT

"Build from the inside out", meaning build the offense first. My reply to that is what the heck have we been doing since Kubes got here, if not building from within? I mean most of his first few drafts were heavy on offense. So, Now we have to build from the outside, meaning defense. Cushing has easily done for us on defense what Winston and Brown have done for us on offense - stabilize us. How can you possibly argue with that?

Building from the "inside out" means you start with the trenches (offense and defense) then work youre way out. Trenches = OL/DL.