Problems with the Texans Coaching Staff

[Keith]

FYI - I split this thread from the other since the convo on rookies playing evolved into this discussion on the coaching staff.

Originally Posted by papabear

Robinson's injury makes it hard to say, but I would say he regressed as well even before the injury and Rhodes arrival

I think Dunta might have regressed somewhere in there, but I seem to recall him having a Pro Bowl-caliber season in 2007 before it was cut short by injury. Maybe I'm remembering wrong?

Originally Posted by barrett

I think it is more likely that it works on offense because we move the ball and have success on that side of the ball. It fails on defense because we are awful on defense.

That, and there is a clearer vision for what they want to accomplish on offense. I don't think there is anything nearly as clear for a direction on defense, which is one of the reasons why they lack an "identity" (though yes, lacking talent is another reason).

Originally Posted by papabear

I'm not convinced that just elevating Bush would make that big of a difference.

I agree with this entire post... it's one of the points I'm making in an article for the site I had written earlier today and yesterday that related to the Hoke comments above (and well hell, most of the other points have already been stated in this thread, too).

Aside from clarifying the authority on the defensive coaching staff, I don't see any dramatic changes in elevating Bush. And, tell me what D-Coord worth his salt would want to jump on this grenade next year, knowing that Kubiak might have just one year left?

[papabear]

Originally Posted by Keith

I think Dunta might have regressed somewhere in there, but I seem to recall him having a Pro Bowl-caliber season in 2007 before it was cut short by injury. Maybe I'm remembering wrong?

No I think he was having a good year too, but I still think we haven't seen much in the way of improviement from anyone in the secondary. Dunta's a guy that was pretty good right out of the gate, but never really taken the next step. I may be overstating the regression some too, but I still think it's a valid point that the DB's aren't getting any better.

One other note on Kubiak. He came from a place where they have had the same head coach for a long time. A coach that showed him a lot of loyalty as well. I don't know the reasons, but Kubiak has shown that he will bring in guys with the same basic function of the guys already on staff. Rhodes to work with the DB's while Hoke's still here. Gibbs for the O line, but keeping Benton on staff. Bush and Smith. Karmelowicz and Franklin.


I give credit to McNair for paying all of those salaries, but the question is is Kubiak bringing in coaches who seem to be redundant because he thinks they make the team better....or because he doesn't have the heart to fire guys who he doesn't think are cutting it?

[popanot]

Originally Posted by Keith

And, tell me what D-Coord worth his salt would want to jump on this grenade next year, knowing that Kubiak might have just one year left?

Like they say, money talks. But I would think guys like Wade Phillips and Marvin Lewis are cocky enough to think they'd be able to turnaround this D' and would be interested (if they get fired from their current gig, of course). It's a gamble, but being on the inside may give them a better shot at the HC job if Kubiak got canned. Certainly on an interim basis if it happened during the season.

[papabear]

Originally Posted by popanot

Like they say, money talks. But I would think guys like Wade Phillips and Marvin Lewis are cocky enough to think they'd be able to turnaround this D' and would be interested (if they get fired from their current gig, of course). It's a gamble, but being on the inside may give them a better shot at the HC job if Kubiak got canned. Certainly on an interim basis if it happened during the season.

I would love for Wade to coach here, and I know he would be interested in coming to Houston. He prefers a 3-4, and I don't want to go through that transition again. I don't think our personnel translates very well at all.

I would guess he could use a 4-3, but I would hate to hire a coach and tell him not to do what he's most comfortable with.

[kravix]

I dont know much about Wade as a DC, but he would be an emotional hire for the city.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Keith

I agree with this entire post... it's one of the points I'm making in an article for the site I had written earlier today and yesterday that related to the Hoke comments above (and well hell, most of the other points have already been stated in this thread, too).

As promised, the article, much of it a reboot of this thread though.

Originally Posted by popanot

Like they say, money talks. But I would think guys like Wade Phillips and Marvin Lewis are cocky enough to think they'd be able to turnaround this D' and would be interested (if they get fired from their current gig, of course). It's a gamble, but being on the inside may give them a better shot at the HC job if Kubiak got canned. Certainly on an interim basis if it happened during the season.

McNair would probably have to pay someone like that as a HC. Not saying McNair would be unwilling, but his track record with assistant coach salaries suggests he probably would be unwilling. And put yourself in McNair's shoes... would you want to commit HC money to an assistant that may or may not be here in more than a year? I don't follow assistant coach pay as closely as I do player pay, but I would think someone like Phillips or Lewis would negotiate multi-year deals.

And I wonder what effect doing that would have on Kubiak. Kubes has brought in more experienced guys (Sherman, for example), but that has been at his own doing. Not sure he'd be gung ho to hire someone he isn't already 'friends' with.

Originally Posted by papabear

I would love for Wade to coach here, and I know he would be interested in coming to Houston. He prefers a 3-4, and I don't want to go through that transition again. I don't think our personnel translates very well at all.

It's a horrible translation. Okoye as a 3-4 end? Hmmm, sounds greek to me. We already saw Travis fail in a 3-4. I think Mario's skills aren't nearly as effective as a 3-4 OLB (not to mention he'd probably be in coverage more than he already is), and as an end, he might have trouble finding room. We have no nose tackle, and Okam isn't ready to wear those daddy pants yet, if ever. He seems more like a 4-3 DT to me anyway.

DeMeco is probably good in any system, and Diles if he returns 100% might be alright, too. I'd have real questions though about the other LBs, though outside of Adibi, none of them might be on the roster next year anyway.

ETA - Cochran would have to become an OLB. Bulman might be okay as an end. In either system, we are desperate for competent safeties. Still, yuck. I think we'd have fewer holes to fill if we kept moving forward with the 4-3.

[popanot]

If we want an NFL quality DC with NFL experience, we're going to have to find one from a current staff or one that is available now. There's only 2 that I can think of that are available now that coach a 4-3. That's Jim Bates and Mike Nolan. The other top candidates are HC's that come from teams likely to fire the HC this year - Cowpies/Phillips, Bengals/Lewis, Browns/Crennel - but those are 3-4 guys. The other candidates are DC's on other teams that could possibly (some likely) fire the HC - Raiders, Vikings, Chiefs, Chargers, Jags(?), 49ers (?), Bills (?). Other than Singletary or Williams (Jags), I doubt I'd want anyone from those teams.

I'd pounce on Jauron if the Bills made a move, but that's unlikely this year. If we wanted to stick with the 4-3, I'd go Nolan, Williams (if he's available), then Bates. 3-4 my list would be Lewis, Phillips, with Crennel coming in a long distance 3rd. Another potential option is if Philly gets sick of Reid and Jimmy Johnson becomes available. I'd hire him in a heartbeat as well.

[NBT]

For whatever reason, McNair is not getting comensurate return for the money he has invested in either coaches or players.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by popanot

I'd pounce on Jauron if the Bills made a move, but that's unlikely this year. If we wanted to stick with the 4-3, I'd go Nolan, Williams (if he's available), then Bates. 3-4 my list would be Lewis, Phillips, with Crennel coming in a long distance 3rd. Another potential option is if Philly gets sick of Reid and Jimmy Johnson becomes available. I'd hire him in a heartbeat as well.

I'd keep Jerry Gray on your radar as well for possible DCs. He interviewed here against Kubiak for the HC job. He took the secondary job with the Redskins after he missed out. I'd also have Gray on a REAL short list of possible HCs to replace Kubiak, either as interim (if Kubiak were to be fired mid-season, which is very doubtful) or full-time in 2010.

Nolan's interesting to me, too. He coached d-line at Rice for a year, didn't know that. He also has the Broncos on his resume (LBs '87-'92), also interesting. Nolan is a big Dan Reeves guy, a big plus if McNair asks for his input again.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by Keith

I'd keep Jerry Gray on your radar as well for possible DCs. He interviewed here against Kubiak for the HC job. He took the secondary job with the Redskins after he missed out. I'd also have Gray on a REAL short list of possible HCs to replace Kubiak, either as interim (if Kubiak were to be fired mid-season, which is very doubtful) or full-time in 2010.

Nolan's interesting to me, too. He coached d-line at Rice for a year, didn't know that. He also has the Broncos on his resume (LBs '87-'92), also interesting. Nolan is a big Dan Reeves guy, a big plus if McNair asks for his input again.

I had forgotten about Gray, I like him a lot. He is a Gregg Williams protege, having coached with him for years. The question about Gray will be can he succeed with out Gregg Williams? BTW Gray comes from a 4-3 background.

Mike Nolan was running a 4-3 in San Fran. I like his aggressive play calling on the defense.

I have seen some ask why would a top coach commit to a lame duck HC team. Because they see it as a win win for themselves. If the team succeeds they can get their names back on the HC short list, or if the team continues to flounder they maybe considered the next HC.

Guys like Nolan, Marvin Lewis, Romeo Crennel, Rod Marinelli, Wade Phillips fit the above criteria.

Personally I think the players are 70% of the problem and that coaching is 30% of the problem. Coaches do not miss tackles or not locate the ball in the air. We do not have defensive playmakers on this team.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by Keith

It's a horrible translation. Okoye as a 3-4 end? Hmmm, sounds greek to me. We already saw Travis fail in a 3-4. I think Mario's skills aren't nearly as effective as a 3-4 OLB (not to mention he'd probably be in coverage more than he already is), and as an end, he might have trouble finding room. We have no nose tackle, and Okam isn't ready to wear those daddy pants yet, if ever. He seems more like a 4-3 DT to me anyway.
DeMeco is probably good in any system, and Diles if he returns 100% might be alright, too. I'd have real questions though about the other LBs, though outside of Adibi, none of them might be on the roster next year anyway.
ETA - Cochran would have to become an OLB. Bulman might be okay as an end. In either system, we are desperate for competent safeties. Still, yuck. I think we'd have fewer holes to fill if we kept moving forward with the 4-3.

Okaye and Travis both definitely not fits as DLineman in the 3-4, but many people feel Mario is the prototype 3-4 DE and that's what Weaver played before coming over here, but I think its been established that Weaver is too expensive at any position with his present cap. But Bullman looks like a real
fit as a 3-4 end, but we'd still need a NT ?
You were joking about Cochran as an OLB ?

[papabear]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

Okaye and Travis both definitely not fits as DLineman in the 3-4, but many people feel Mario is the prototype 3-4 DE and that's what Weaver played before coming over here, but I think its been established that Weaver is too expensive at any position with his present cap. But Bullman looks like a real
fit as a 3-4 end, but we'd still need a NT ?
You were joking about Cochran as an OLB ?

I think Mario could play DE in a 3-4, but I think you are limiting on of your best players by having him play there. The 3-4 is set up for the OLB. I think your wasting some of Mario's talents by moving to that scheme. Remember one of the arguments for the Weaver signing was that he would be much more productive than his 14.5 sacks in 57 games once he moved to the 4-3. Weaver might be a bad example because he hasn't been productive in a 4-3 either, but the point remains the same. Why take your best player and put him in a role that is not designed to make plays.

I've heard others say Mario could be an OLB in a 3-4. That would be fine on rushing downs, but as good an athelete as he is he simply isn't going to hav the skillset he needs in coverage. He would be a beast if they could make it work, but I think we'd end up giving up the element of surprise the 3-4 relies on and just end up sending Mario as the fourth rusher every play.

It's all academic anyway, because if you don't have the right NT in a 3-4 nothing else matters.