Speculative AJ thread

[KJ3]

Originally Posted by painekiller

I would ship him to Philly for both of their 1st.

Why, you do not win with one player, no matter how good he is.

do you win with 2?

[nunusguy]

Unlike the first 3 games, yesterday AJ looked like the old AJ: he was big & fast with great hands and played with real intensity and as a result was simple unstoppable. So I ask you, after he expressed reservations about the teams progress how do you really think he's going to play now ? Right, I'm also thinking he lays down on the job and becomes disinterested and inconsistant again.
Buy low and sell high, and AJs stock should be high again after yesterday. For the sake of the future, I'd move him now even though as others suggested it may be tough time of the year to find a market for him.
I just think AJ is gonna be less interested than ever now in being here, he's in his prime (only 27), and obviously we aren't going anyplace this year.
Problem is McNair would probably refuse to trade him even if he got a good
offer. And right about now he may not be feeling too confidant about the
advice he gets from Smith & McNair.

[da Bull]

At this point in the season I don't think there are that many (if any) trading partners. That being said, I think AJ is part of the problem not the solution. No doubt he has one of the best receiver skill sets in the NFL, is quite (most of the time) and is a "team" player. So why is it all or nothing with him? He speaks out last week and yesterday the game plan was geared toward him. He responded very well, catching everything in sight. This worked well for 3 3/4 quarters. Then the Colts either took him away or he didn't get himself open because he wasn't in the same position as earlier, before the air was let out of the balloon.

Sitting in the stands you don't see (nor feel) the game the same as on TV with replay, TEVO and etc. Even when we were ahead and I thought there was no way we could lose I thought that AJ had gotten his point across to Kubiak at the expense of the other receivers (Jacksonville)..........but it was all good. Then the wheels fell off.

At his point in the season I think it would be great to get a good player, draft picks or even trade AJ for a good defensive coordinator. I think AJ needs a change of scenery for his sake and the team's.

[Keith]

Anyone thinking of trading Andre Johnson before the deadline must have the NFL confused with MLB... the salary cap rules make trading Johnson all but impossible right now.

This isn't a case of dumping your star pitcher for a middle infielder and a truckload of minor league prospects. The Texans need to keep attaining more talent, not trade it away for speculative values. And what would be worse would be if Johnson were traded for something other than a series of first rounders. I have ZERO faith - ABSOLUTELY NONE - in our pro scouting department right now.

Andre Johnson will be in Houston for the long haul.

[da Bull]

Originally Posted by Keith

Anyone thinking of trading Andre Johnson before the deadline must have the NFL confused with MLB... the salary cap rules make trading Johnson all but impossible right now.

This isn't a case of dumping your star pitcher for a middle infielder and a truckload of minor league prospects. The Texans need to keep attaining more talent, not trade it away for speculative values. And what would be worse would be if Johnson were traded for something other than a series of first rounders. I have ZERO faith - ABSOLUTELY NONE - in our pro scouting department right now.

Andre Johnson will be in Houston for the long haul.

Keith, pragmatically I agree with you. AJ has always been the "sacred cow" so to speak, the only play who was thought to be "untouchable." I was only pointing out, that that to me, there's some tarnish on his armor and maybe a few "chinks" under the tarnish.

I could see the Texans trading AJ after the season, "to give him a chance to play on a Super Bowl contender" now. There are a few symptoms of "Ahman Green-itis" starting to show up....but like you said, "NO CONFIDENCE IN THE PRO SCOUTING DEPARTMENT". That would really take some "big cojones" on Rick Smith's part and I just don't see it.

Originally Posted by KJ3

so he's a rock to build a foundation upon for 6 years, hits a few games where despite his efforts his play, his teammates and their play, his coaches and their "coaching" everything goes horribly wrong and it's his fault? he's the problem?

calling out andre johnson as the "problem" with this team is just funny.

After 6 years does he elevate the play of others around him? So is he the so called "foundation", maybe and then again maybe not. I think I would prefer a few smaller "rocks" and a sack of cement than one "big rock" and that same sack of cement to build my foundation.

[bono]

perhaps Andre Johnson is/was having the same issue as Peyton Manning. He didn't play too much in the preseason so when the regular season started he had rust. Yesterday, the rust was gone and we had good ol' AJ

[KJ3]

uh...house building analogies aside i think we can agree this would cut our only strength (passing game) in half.

[NBT]

How about we just start closing out teams in the fourth quarter, and stop talking about trading our best player other than Mario.

[nero THE zero]

Originally Posted by Keith

the salary cap rules make trading Johnson all but impossible right now.

How does it work differently during the season as opposed to the offseason?

Like I said, I know cap issues complicate the hypothetical. Really the point I wanted to raise is; are we a better team with AJ and a 2009 first rounder or Lito Shephard and two 2009 first rounders (or 3 2009 first rounders?)

Your initial reaction is that you're a better team with one of the best 3 WR in the league; a guy who's been humble and loyal to a wretched organization. But, there's an argument to be made that our passing offense can suffice without him (e.g. those 7 games without him last season: 236 yds, 317 yds, 294 yds, 259 yds, 290 yds, 176 yds, 181 yds) especially if you get comparable/more talent back in return.

[popanot]

Originally Posted by nero THE zero

...are we a better team with AJ and a 2009 first rounder or Lito Shephard and two 2009 first rounders (or 3 2009 first rounders?).

Do you really believe the Eagles are dumb enough to give up Sheppard AND 2 first rounders for AJ? We're talking about one of the better franchises in the league with making personel decisions. They'd laugh at that offer.

This subject is borderline silly. The guy has his best game so far and people want to ship him out. The franchise is obviously lacking top-level talent. We need to keep our quality young players, do better at drafting, sign better FAs and do better at evaluating talent overall (ours and theirs).

[Keith]

Originally Posted by nero THE zero

How does it work differently during the season as opposed to the offseason?

Iirc, the unamortized bonus money accelerates immediately regardless of when the trade happens.

I agree with popanot here. A little off-topic, but the player we should have traded was Rosenfels, a QB discarded by a passer-deficient Dolphins team two years ago who suddenly gained some trade value (at least before about 2:45pm yesterday). Anyone wish they had a third rounder for him now?

If we're looking to trade anyone, you start with overpriced vets who might benefit from a new scheme or a change in scenery, guys like Tony Weaver and Morlon Greenwood ...though there is no one interested in picking up their salaries, Weaver especially. There are so few trades of household name players in the NFL for good reason.

[nero THE zero]

Originally Posted by popanot

Do you really believe the Eagles are dumb enough to give up Sheppard AND 2 first rounders for AJ?

Originally Posted by nero THE zero

So, given Andre's recent media comments, would you be OK with shipping him to Philly for either (a) their two 2009 first round draft picks or (b) Lito Sheppard and one of their 2009 first round picks?

...........

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by Keith

Iirc, the unamortized bonus money accelerates immediately regardless of when the trade happens.

I agree with popanot here. A little off-topic, but the player we should have traded was Rosenfels, a QB discarded by a passer-deficient Dolphins team two years ago who suddenly gained some trade value (at least before about 2:45pm yesterday). Anyone wish they had a third rounder for him now?

If we're looking to trade anyone, you start with overpriced vets who might benefit from a new scheme or a change in scenery, guys like Tony Weaver and Morlon Greenwood ...though there is no one interested in picking up their salaries, Weaver especially. There are so few trades of household name players in the NFL for good reason.

I dunno, but really bet you wouldn't be saying that if not for the last 3 or 4 minutes of Sundays Texans-Colts game ? 20-20 as they say - perfect hindsight.
And sure we'd like to trade Weaver or Greenwood if there was only takers
on those fat contracts. Like the sub-prime mess (mortgage balances > home market values), compensation package > player market value.

[popanot]

Originally Posted by nero THE zero

...........

Like I said, this topic is silly. Philly would laugh at either one of those offers.

[KJ3]

Originally Posted by popanot

Like I said, this topic is silly. Philly would laugh at either one of those offers.

i thought they were pretty much ready to strike this offseason for either sheppard or their 1sts....why would they laugh at andre?

[nero THE zero]

Originally Posted by popanot

Like I said, this topic is silly. Philly would laugh at either one of those offers.

I thought it was an interesting topic; that's why I took the time to sit down and type out my thoughts to share. Is it improbable? Sure. But, I think it's interesting nonetheless.

If you feel otherwise, you're more than welcome to ignore it. I don't really see how it's constructive to come in and belittle it like that though.

And, as KJ said, Philly was willing to give up Lito for Roy Williams or Chad Johnson straight up. I don't think it's inconcievable that a greater, younger talent; with no attitude; who's under contract, IIRC, for 6 more years garners an extra first in the deal.

[KJ3]

Originally Posted by da Bull

At this point in the season I don't think there are that many (if any) trading partners. That being said, I think AJ is part of the problem not the solution. No doubt he has one of the best receiver skill sets in the NFL, is quite (most of the time) and is a "team" player. So why is it all or nothing with him? He speaks out last week and yesterday the game plan was geared toward him. He responded very well, catching everything in sight. This worked well for 3 3/4 quarters. Then the Colts either took him away or he didn't get himself open because he wasn't in the same position as earlier, before the air was let out of the balloon.

so he's a rock to build a foundation upon for 6 years, hits a few games where despite his efforts his play, his teammates and their play, his coaches and their "coaching" everything goes horribly wrong and it's his fault? he's the problem?

calling out andre johnson as the "problem" with this team is just funny.

this team needs to do several things better. andre can do so much from one position (and he usually does) but this team needs better F/A pickups for contracts that don't make a fish butthole squeeze, actual development from draft picks other than ryans and williams, consistent play from o'line/qb, the continuation of decent health reports, a DC....so on.