2012 mocks

[HPF Bob]

Originally Posted by chuck

I was just looking over the team's draft history. Holy shit was Casserly terrible.

The Painted Lady (Babin) didn't blossom until he left Houston but he's turned out to be a solid low-first-round pick. Was he worth what we gave up for him? Probably not but at least he's not the bust that Travis Johnson or Amobi Okoye were.

[barrett]

It is tough to diagnose exactly what we do this year in the draft. We have a few postions that could be upgraded but that do not play that big of a role in our system (DT, MLB#2, WR#2/3).

And we have a few that could be upgraded even though guys performed well (both guard spots or Tackle if you move Winston in, Safety).

You have one spot they probably won't upgrade because of what they have invested already and don't want to admit they are wrong about (CB#2, KJ, Harris).

And you have one spot that will almost certainly be upgraded (KR/PR).

And on top of all that, the priorities could all be changed around by our own FA (C, G, OLB, CB#2 Allen) or by any cuts we make if we resign Mario and Foster (Demeco, Walter, JJ, etc...).

And then their is anyone we sign from outside in FA.

And one final concern is if Schaub has complications lingering.

Basically it is a total crapshoot to mock draft this year because for the first time ever we are a real NFL franchise without a gaping hole that we have to force our 1st round pick into filling.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

The Painted Lady (Babin) didn't blossom until he left Houston but he's turned out to be a solid low-first-round pick. Was he worth what we gave up for him? Probably not but at least he's not the bust that Travis Johnson or Amobi Okoye were.

He had almost 20 sacks this season. That is worth what we gave up.

I think the bad coaching/bad drafting argument is chicken and egg, but does anyone think that last year's DC would have made Rick Smith look like executive of the year or would last year's defense have made Jonathon Joseph, Manning, Watt, and Reed look terrible.

So I am sure Casserly and Capers made each other look bad.

[chuck]

Originally Posted by barrett

So I am sure Casserly and Capers made each other look bad.

Oh, I do not mean to insulate Capers and staff from culpability, at all. But every single draft from 2002-2005 was a near disaster or a full-on disaster. I can't even credit that imbecile for Andre Johnson because Casserly had his sights set on McGahee until he got hurt.

In light of that it is especially curious then that the expansion draft was, with the Boselli injury excepted, an unqualified success.

[HPF Bob]

Originally Posted by chuck

In light of that it is especially curious then that the expansion draft was, with the Boselli injury excepted, an unqualified success.

Other than Boselli, Casserly played the expansion draft like a chess master - in part because teams were just beginning to realize what cap hell was like (they've adjusted) and Casserly was able to make pre-draft deals with the Jets, Jaguars and Ravens to expose players for us to take so that they could keep other players in the fold. It was a far better outcome than the way the Browns went about it.

Weary and Pitts were quality selections and Dominick Davis was a steal before he was injured. Faggins was a nice pick and the two safeties (Earl and Brown) were good for where they were drafted. The Henson ploy was worth trying.

OTOH, there were definite reaches like Seth Wand.

I'm not totally down on the early drafts. In retrospect, 2002 was a sucky draft year for the whole NFL. Very few good players emerged from that draft.

[barrett]

And 2006 was a Casserly draft sans Capers. That was our best draft ever and the kind of class that makes a GMs career (if you haven't preceded it with the 2002-2005 stretch).

I just think that our organization was broken for the first decade or so, and it made it tough to evaluate what kind of players we actually had. When Kubiak came along you could fairly evaluate the offensive talent and Wade's arrival means you can judge the defensive guys. But I honestly believe we would have made Julius Peppers look bad if we drafted him instead of Carr. We were just a terrible, terrible franchise.

[edo783]

Originally Posted by chuck

I was just looking over the team's draft history. Holy shit was Casserly terrible.

A reasonable case can be made that Kubes inherited a worse team than was had in the expansion. Probably not true, but also probably not to far wrong. Talk about screwing the pooch.

[chuck]

Originally Posted by edo783

A reasonable case can be made that Kubes inherited a worse team than was had in the expansion. Probably not true, but also probably not to far wrong. Talk about screwing the pooch.

Oh, I could very easily argue that the 2005 Texans were worse than the 2002 Texans. It would be far more challenging to argue otherwise.

That's pretty damning, really.

[painekiller]

26 Kendall Wright WR Baylor 5' 11" 185
58 Kevin Zeitler OG Wisconsin 6' 4" 315.
89 Josh Chapman DT Alabama 6' 1" 310
121 Aaron Henry S Wisconsin 6' 0" 210
153 William Vlachos OC Alabama 6' 1" 292
184 Asa Jackson CB Cal Poly 5' 10" 188
216 Mario Kurn DE San Diego 6' 2" 220

Other then Wright not being a prototype body type for Kubiak and not a known entity as a returner, I like this mock.

[painekiller]

This one starts the same but changes late:

26 Kendall Wright WR Baylor 5' 11" 185
58 Kevin Zeitler OG Wisconsin 6' 4" 315
89 Josh Chapman DT Alabama 6' 1" 310
121 Aaron Henry S Wisconsin 6' 0" 210
153 Sammy Brown OLB Houston 6' 3" 240
184 Matt Reynolds OT BYU 6' 6" 325
216 Randy Bullock K Texas A&M 5' 9" 205

I like the last one a little better than this one. I'm not sure where a OLB fits the current roster, same with OT. And lastly as much as a lot of you guys want Rackers gone I do not see them going with the Aggie, rookie kickers are not a Kubiak thing.

[Blitzwood]

26. Peter Konz* OC Wisconsin 6' 5" 315
58. Brandon Thompson DT Clemson 6' 3" 305
89. Frank Alexander DE Oklahoma 6' 4" 259
121. Derek Wolfe DT Cincinnati 6' 5" 298
153. Donnie Fletcher CB Boston College 6' 1" 196
184. Jordan White WR Western Michigan 6' 0" 208
216. Jarius Wright WR Arkansas 5' 10" 180

UDFA. Lavasier Tuinei WR Oregon 6'5" 216
UDFA. Blair Walsh K Georgia 5' 10" 185

This draft would address most needs. Konz can play all three interior positions. Thompson will take over the NT position this year. F. Alexander can battle for the OLB spot once Mario leaves in FA. Wolfe spends the year behind A.Smith at the other 5 tech. Fletcher is a steal in the 5th round and can challenge for KJ's spot. Can play some FS, too. White and Wright can step in right away to help our recieving corp. Kubiak's M.O. has been to select WR's late in the draft, this year is no different. Walsh is healthy competition for training camp.

[HPF Bob]

The two mocks at CBS Sports.com both have us choosing WR Rueben Randle of LSU.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by painekiller

This one starts the same but changes late:

26 Kendall Wright WR Baylor 5' 11" 185
58 Kevin Zeitler OG Wisconsin 6' 4" 315
89 Josh Chapman DT Alabama 6' 1" 310
121 Aaron Henry S Wisconsin 6' 0" 210
153 Sammy Brown OLB Houston 6' 3" 240
184 Matt Reynolds OT BYU 6' 6" 325
216 Randy Bullock K Texas A&M 5' 9" 205

I like the last one a little better than this one. I'm not sure where a OLB fits the current roster, same with OT. And lastly as much as a lot of you guys want Rackers gone I do not see them going with the Aggie, rookie kickers are not a Kubiak thing.

Boy is this one going to be changed after Tuesday...

[painekiller]

My Post Combine Cherry Pick

26 Stephen Hill, WR, Georgia Tech, 6' 5", 206. Size, Speed guy that will not have to be a #1 for a couple of years. He can block and is a team player. (Needs time to learn the WCO).

If Mario Leaves 58 Shea McClellin, OLB, Boise State, 6' 3", 262. High motor guy who can be an excellent rotation guy at OLB.

If Mario Stays 58 Harrison Smith, S, Notre Dame, 6' 2", 212. It's a bad year for safeties this year but this guy can play. Only Team Caption on the Irish this season.

89 Isaiah Pead, RB, Cincinnati, 5' 10", 193. Would be the #3 RB and a return guy.

121 David Molk, OC, Michigan, 6' 2", 285. High motor guy, with excellent feet, gets to the 2nd level very well.

153 Derek Wolfe, DE, Cincinnati, 6' 5", 298. If he falls this far an excellent pick, I'm getting mixed reports on his placement. Another high motor guy.

What are your thoughts?

[HPF Bob]

Pead is someone who has impressed me the few times I saw Cincinnati play. Smallish guy but can he block at the next level and how good are his pass-catching skills? Is it worth spending a 3rd on a guy who won't see the field all that much, assuming he ranks behind Foster and Tate on the depth chart?

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by painekiller

My Post Combine Cherry Pick

26 Stephen Hill, WR, Georgia Tech, 6' 5", 206. Size, Speed guy that will not have to be a #1 for a couple of years. He can block and is a team player. (Needs time to learn the WCO).



What are your thoughts?

Going with the WO-Warrior are you PK ?
The thing is I'm also really impressed by this guy since I watched him during the combine, however I keep reminding myself that his size/speed combo reminds me quite a bit of a recent Texans Draft pick that didn't work so well: Dorin Dickerson, who of course was only a 7th round pick.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

Pead is someone who has impressed me the few times I saw Cincinnati play. Smallish guy but can he block at the next level and how good are his pass-catching skills? Is it worth spending a 3rd on a guy who won't see the field all that much, assuming he ranks behind Foster and Tate on the depth chart?

I see Pead as insurance for one of the top two guys going down, and for being an answer for cutting ties with Jacoby, at a cheaper price then Ward. Plus special teams is a major part of keeping a #3,

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

Going with the WO-Warrior are you PK ?
The thing is I'm also really impressed by this guy since I watched him during the combine, however I keep reminding myself that his size/speed combo reminds me quite a bit of a recent Texans Draft pick that didn't work so well: Dorin Dickerson, who of course was only a 7th round pick.

When I watch the Texans draft, I see them go BPA for need, and at 26, this kid has to be right there. Now I agree he is raw, but as in the post above he allows you cut Jacoby and pick up a willing blocker with great top end speed.

I see the Texans going WR in the 1st no matter what, and I ask why not this guy? Imagine him across from AJ.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by painekiller

When I watch the Texans draft, I see them go BPA for need, and at 26, this kid has to be right there. Now I agree he is raw, but as in the post above he allows you cut Jacoby and pick up a willing blocker with great top end speed.

I see the Texans going WR in the 1st no matter what, and I ask why not this guy? Imagine him across from AJ.

From Mario to JJ, Kubiak has a string (and a policy) of first-rounders starting from Day One, but do you really think this Hill guy would be up that assignment ?
And isn't this supposed to be an extremely deep Draft for WRs ? Well if so I can see them holding off until the second-round to get their receiver, especially if a really good edge-rusher or DBack that Wade covets is available to them in the first round.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

From Mario to JJ, Kubiak has a string (and a policy) of first-rounders starting from Day One, but do you really think this Hill guy would be up that assignment ?
And isn't this supposed to be an extremely deep Draft for WRs ? Well if so I can see them holding off until the second-round to get their receiver, especially if a really good edge-rusher or DBack that Wade covets is available to them in the first round.

I have heard Kubiak say that this is the first season that they expect the number 1 pick to not start. They do not see any obvious holes in the starters, unless Myers leaves, which they do not expect.

Now if Mario leaves, I do see them looking at the BPA from the OLB or WR positions. Also there are some decent WR prospects available in the 2nd, same with the OLBs.