Length to Impact and the 1st round

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by Roy P

A prospect has value based upon the supply of similar players too. You made comparisons of Mathews vs. Tate and Dan Williams vs. Linval Joseph, so you realize this, maybe subconsciously. This is perilous to do when there is only 1 player who is being projected by consensus to be available later in the draft.

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I agree with this. As you stated I referred to it, but did not articulate it outright.

I can say, IMO there are a number of RBs I like through out the draft. And you have made me aware of a handful of DT available in the 3rd and 4th round range.

I appear to be higher on the talent available in this draft, and how they project to our team.

Some of my guys need seasoning, (this is not in order of preference on the OL)

My OL prospects: Mike Iupati, Jon Asamoah, Mike Johnson, Mitch Petrus, Marshall Newhouse, Sergio Render, Shelley Smith, JD Walton, Matt Tennant, Maurkice Pouncey, Trent Williams, Zane Beadles, Jeff Byers, Kevin Matthews, Selvish Capers, Adam Ulatoski:

RB: CJ Spiller, Ryan Mathews, Toby Gerhart, Dexter McCluster, Montario Hardesty, Ben Tate, Joe McKnight, James Starks, Lonyae Miller, Charles Scott, Andre Anderson , Javarris James, Deji Karim, Keiland Williams, Jameson Konz.

CB: Joe Haden, Kyle Wilson, Patrick Robinson, Devin McCourty, Kareem Jackson, Chris Cook, Brandon Ghee, Akwasi Owusu-Ansah, Dominique Franks,
Jerome Murphy, Donovan Warren, Amari Spievey, Javier Arenas, Kevin Thomas, Walter Thurmond, Syd'Quan Thompson, Walter McFadden, Trevard Lindley, A.J. Jefferson, Nolan Carroll, Brian Jackson, Jamar Wall

S: Earl Thomas, Taylor Mays, Morgan Burnett, Darrell Stuckey, Larry Asante, Kam Chancellor, Myron Rolle, Justin Woodall, Jordan Lake. I admit I do not know the safeties like Roy.

[nunusguy]

20# HOU- K. Jackson CB Alabama- A very talented, polished CB that should start day 1 in HOU
21# CIN- J. Gresham TE Oklahoma- Finally, the Bengals get an elite TE for Carson Palmer
22# NE- R. Mathews RB Fresno St- They have a lot of bodies at RB but not a single stud, enter Mathews
23# GB- K. Wilson CB Boise St- Watching the arial circus against AZ makes this a logical move
24# PHI- D. McCourty CB Rutgers- They can address LB in the later rounds, don’t want to miss the run on CB’s
http://www.movethesticks.com/
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The guy who produced this freshly updated mock is a former scout for Baltimore GM Newsom by the name of Daniel Jeremiah who was a guest on the 1560 Draft show tonight. So he's got the cred given his background as a paid NFL talent evaluator, but what about who he's got the Texans taking at #20 while they leave those 2 other corners on the Board ? Any thoughts on Kareem Jackson ?

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

20# HOU- K. Jackson CB Alabama- A very talented, polished CB that should start day 1 in HOU......................

The guy who produced this freshly updated mock is a former scout for Baltimore GM Newsom by the name of Daniel Jeremiah who was a guest on the 1560 Draft show tonight. So he's got the cred given his background as a paid NFL talent evaluator, but what about who he's got the Texans taking at #20 while they leave those 2 other corners on the Board ? Any thoughts on Kareem Jackson ?

Jackson played for Nick Sabin, who is hard on DBs. To play for Sabin a CB has to be able to play man down the field. They do not get much help from the safeties who are playing in the box to stop the run.

Expect Jackson to be well coached in college and ready to play.

I have a high 2nd on him, but I am not paid like Jeremiah has been.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by painekiller

Jackson played for Nick Sabin, who is hard on DBs. To play for Sabin a CB has to be able to play man down the field. They do not get much help from the safeties who are playing in the box to stop the run.

Expect Jackson to be well coached in college and ready to play.

I have a high 2nd on him, but I am not paid like Jeremiah has been.

I dunno if this class of corners going into the Draft are superior, inferior, or just average compared to past years, but I'm starting to get the impression that there is rough equality within 5 or 6 corners ? In other words Haden isn't clearly the best or Haden & Kyle Wiilson clearly aren't the 2 best, but there's a half dozen or so who are all pretty close together.

[bckey]

Excellent thread guys. I see that you don't mention anything about Nate Allen as a possibility for the Texans at fs Roy. Do you not like him or is he just rated to go in a spot where you don't think the Texans could draft him? Most have him going early 2nd which would mean the Texans would have to move up in the 2nd or possibly trade back out of the 1st.

[Joe Joe]

For LTI, getting a CB, RB, or OG is probably the best bet for immediate impact for the first two picks for the Texans. RB and OG would basically revamp the interior line with Smith, Caldwell, and draft pick hopefully being good enough to replace last years line while giving the Texans a RB that is a larger threat in running game. CB would be nice as well. The Texans almost need to trade down in first round to get an additional 2nd rd pick or trade up from the third round so that they can get a player at each of these needs.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by Joe Joe

For LTI, getting a CB, RB, or OG is probably the best bet for immediate impact for the first two picks for the Texans.

Of those 3, RB has the shortest 'shelf-life' so, that's why I'd hate to take Ryan Mathews in the 1st round. My prob is I don't know which RB will be available in the 3rd round. So, yes, getting an extra 2nd round pick by trading down would be WONDERFUL. I'd probably go with something like....

1. CB Devin McCourty
2. OG Jon Asamoah
2. RB Ben Tate
3. DT Geno Atkins

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by bckey

I see that you don't mention anything about Nate Allen as a possibility for the Texans at fs Roy.

I was pretty fired up about Nate Allen by what I had read about him. Possible "Cover" Safety that tackles well enough to help in the run game. He was one of "My Guys" going into the season. Then I watched a game he played and I was quite dissappointed. I saw a playmaker on the youtube highlights. However, I saw a guy who was hesitant to make contact in a game. When he did attempt to make a tackle, he missed and he had a couple of sweeping arm tackles that the runner broke. So, I've removed him from my board because he's not physical enough for my tastes as a 2nd round pick.

[bckey]

Originally Posted by Roy P

I was pretty fired up about Nate Allen by what I had read about him. Possible "Cover" Safety that tackles well enough to help in the run game. He was one of "My Guys" going into the season. Then I watched a game he played and I was quite dissappointed. I saw a playmaker on the youtube highlights. However, I saw a guy who was hesitant to make contact in a game. When he did attempt to make a tackle, he missed and he had a couple of sweeping arm tackles that the runner broke. So, I've removed him from my board because he's not physical enough for my tastes as a 2nd round pick.

Thanks for the info Roy. I knew there had to be a reason you left him off.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by painekiller

I appear to be higher on the talent available in this draft, and how they project to our team.

Some of my guys need seasoning, (this is not in order of preference on the OL)

My OL prospects: Mike Iupati, Jon Asamoah, Mike Johnson, Mitch Petrus, Marshall Newhouse, Sergio Render, Shelley Smith, JD Walton, Matt Tennant, Maurkice Pouncey, Trent Williams, Zane Beadles, Jeff Byers, Kevin Matthews, Selvish Capers, Adam Ulatoski:

RB: CJ Spiller, Ryan Mathews, Toby Gerhart, Dexter McCluster, Montario Hardesty, Ben Tate, Joe McKnight, James Starks, Lonyae Miller, Charles Scott, Andre Anderson , Javarris James, Deji Karim, Keiland Williams, Jameson Konz.

CB: Joe Haden, Kyle Wilson, Patrick Robinson, Devin McCourty, Kareem Jackson, Chris Cook, Brandon Ghee, Akwasi Owusu-Ansah, Dominique Franks,
Jerome Murphy, Donovan Warren, Amari Spievey, Javier Arenas, Kevin Thomas, Walter Thurmond, Syd'Quan Thompson, Walter McFadden, Trevard Lindley, A.J. Jefferson, Nolan Carroll, Brian Jackson, Jamar Wall
S: Earl Thomas, Taylor Mays, Morgan Burnett, Darrell Stuckey, Larry Asante, Kam Chancellor, Myron Rolle, Justin Woodall, Jordan Lake. I admit I do not know the safeties like Roy.

Along the OL - I'd say Trent Williams, Asamoah, and Jerry improve the OL. Saffold and Walton are probably equivalent to what we have, but would improve with experience. I don't think you even listed Rodger Saffold on your list. Because of their Combine - I'd be willing to develop Newhouse, Eric Olsen, Shawn Lauvao, Shelley Smith, Joe Hawley, and John Estes. The other guys that you list I can't fathom in Texan uniforms. They are either too slow footed, or too highly rated compared to other players that will be available.

RB - I like Matthews but no so much that I'm spending #20 on him. I absolutely love Ben Tate and am pleasantly surprised to see him in the 4th round on some boards. We could 'get away with' Gerhart or even Hardesty. Dwyer is an enigma, but I think he'd be ok. Some have him as a 2nd round pick which is too rich for my blood. I don't really like any RB's after that, but because of other needs, I may have to hold my nose and select one later in the draft. Joe McKnight is smaller than I want (198lbs) but he ran a 4.4 in the 40. Anthony Dixon is S-L-O-W but he is big and perhaps could move the chains. He reminds me of BJG-E who the Patriots signed as an UDFA. James Starks has the measurables, but I've never seen him play, so I'm hesitant to endorse him, but if late enough, I can select on measurables alone. Starks has an injury history too. I liked what I saw from Andre Anderson of Tulane, but I don't know if I'll bet the farm on him and a 4.58. Lonyae Miller has the right size, but his shuttle and Cone are not impressive. I've never seen Deji Karim - but his size/speed looks like Slaton's clone. Andre Dixon has decent measurables, I just wish he were bigger. Joique Bell had good shuttle/Cone, but a 4.68 is not wonderful and neither is coming from a small school. So, basically there are only 3 guys I WANT to have, and a few more that I'd be willing to take.

CB - I hate the CB's in this draft. Straight up. In previous drafts I wanted to select Leon Hall, Antoine Cason, Richard Marshall and Antrel Rolle. Now, we HAVE to get a Corner and this is the crap we get to choose from. The best 2 CBs are FS. Then Kyle Wilson - who may be as good as Jonathon Joseph. Not a world-beater, but better than on our roster. Patrick Robinson may be as good as Eric Wright or as bad as Philip Buchanon. McCourty has good technique, but bad hands for the INT. He reminds me a little bit of Tracy Porter, but Tracy catches more INTs. Ghee has lots of potential but only 1 interception while he was in college. So, does my dire need for the position cause me to 'reach' for a guy that isn't going to give me a lot of impact? Might I be better off waiting for a guy that has slipped because of his lack of speed, size, or maybe an injury or his perceived poor support against the run? If I can improve my pass rush, maybe I don't NEED to have a 1st round CB. My mid/late round value in the CB include Kevin Thomas, Alterraun Verner, Trevard Lindley, Crezdon Butler, Walter McFadden, AJ Jefferson, Jamar Wall and Joshua Moore.

S - Have I said that I LOVE Eric Berry & Earl Thomas? Taylor Mays intrigues me because of his physical attributes. However, I'll only select him in the 2nd round. So, I probably won't draft him. I like what I've seen of Darrell Stuckey, but he's not really a FS. I don't like Chris Cook as a CB, but I'd put him as a FS if he were still on the board in the 3rd round. Akwasi Owusu-Ansah, Major Wright, and Morgan Burnett are 3 other players I'd be willing to draft in the 3rd to play FS. Otherwise, I'll wait until the 5th to take Myron Lewis or the 6th to take Brian Jackson. If I could give Brian Jackson the speed of Myron Lewis, I'd draft that guy in the 2nd round. The Special Teams guys that may develop into a starting FS include Robert Johnson,
Terrell Skinner, Nick Polk and Jamar Wall. I put wall as a CB, but I'd be willing to move him to FS.

[Roy P]

The more I watch the Texans play, the more I want to get more pass rush from the DL. Then when I watch the Senior Bowl and the Shrine Bowl, I really want to draft Geno Atkins and Daniel Te'o-Nesheim. I realize that we drafted Okoye who had a 1.65 for a 10-yd split and a 7.46 Cone. Maybe he improves because of maturity and experience this year. Geno only had a 1.68 for a 10-yd split, but his 7.33 Cone is nice. He was also unblockable in Mobile and ate Iupati up. D. Te'o-Nesheim has numbers comparable to Barwin. In the Shrine Game he would have had 3 sacks or at least 2 intentional groundings. He has more 'experience' playing the DE position than Barwin does and is stout against the run.

DT-N : 40 - 4.73, 20 - 2.70, 10 - 1.61, Cone - 6.91, Shuttle - 4.18
CBrwn: 40 - 4.59, 20 - 2.68, 10 - 1.53, Cone - 6.87, Shuttle - 4.18

Now, imagine if you could Dan Williams being the Texans 1st round pick at #20.

1. DT Dan Williams
2. RB Ben Tate
3. DT Geno Atkins
4. DE Daniel Te'o-Nesheim
5. CB Kevin Thomas
6. RB James Starks
6. CB Crezdon Butler
7. OG Shelley Smith