Do We Need a Change at HC?

[mussop]

Originally Posted by NBT

I think it was Bum who said, I can beat you with our'n, and I can beat you with your'n. If that doesn't mean coaching is the defining thing, I don't know what would be. Kubiak is just not going to get the job done. Why not realize that now, and go ahead and make the move? He can fall on his sword for the players all he wants to but the bottom line is he has had four years to do it, and, while we have improved, we still aren't any closer to the SB than we were.

"There's two kinds of coaches, them that's fired and them that's gonna be fired."

[Fonz the Boss]

I was a little surprised to see that most people still want Kubiak to stay. Its going to be the same old thing people.... They cant win big games with Kubiak. I have become aware of that this season. Their record will continue to be respectable because they will win all other meaningless games.... 1-5 in the division is not acceptable. I praise Kubiak for turning this team around though. We went from a joke to respectable. Now we need someone new to take us to the promised land.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by Fonz the Boss

I praise Kubiak for turning this team around though. We went from a joke to respectable.

This sentence reminded me of something I heard Palillo say the other day and I've been kicking it around for a while but haven't really decided on an answer to. I'm curious to see what others think.

In short, Kubiak has been given lots of props for taking the Texans out of the basement and making them average, respectable, etc. This has generally been viewed as a Herculean accomplishment. When someone called into Palillo and expressed a similar thought, Palillo's take was that this really wasn't much of an accomplishment. While he said it in passing and didn't really go into detail, the jist of his comment was that taking a bad team and simply transforming them into an average team can generally be done by anyone but the most incompetent (particularly with 4 years to do it with). It is getting over the hump from average to good where a person earns his keep. This got me to thinking about it and I wonder whether going from 2-14 to 8-8 is as difficult an accomplishment as we may consider it. Thoughts?

[HPF Bob]

I'll ask Dom Capers and get back to you on that.

[Roy P]

I just don't know who we would hire that's going to be better. Do we get a recycle or a new-comer? How much of a philosophy change do we need in terms of 3/4 defense or non-WCO? Is the GM going to be fired too? Then the scouts and all the rest?

The team is getting better. If they regress, then I say we fire Kubiak. The comment was made that we'd be a year behind IF Kubiak gets fired NEXT year. The converse is, we are 4 years ahead IF Kubiak takes the team to the SuperBowl next year.

[Roy P]

I would think it ironic if Jim Fassell was the HC and Brian Billick the OC.

[NBT]

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

I'll ask Dom Capers and get back to you on that.

Why, Capers couldn't even get us to 8-8?

[chuck]

I think it's pretty clear that McNair is going to keep Kubiak for another year. And, despite my occasional hysterics, I think that's probably the right move.

As Roy asks, who's better? Cower? Sure, he's proven but he's not coming here. Who else? When I look calmly at the disappointing games we've seen I see a lot of players not making plays along with some isolated albeit incredibly idiotic coaching snafus.

If I owned the team I'd try to figure out if the players wanted to play for Kubiak. Do they believe in him? Will they bust their ass for him? If so, keep him around for another year and make it plain to him privately that the team needs to make the playoffs for you to keep your job. Period. Injuries, bad calls, whatever, who cares. No playoffs, no job. And for god's sake, no more halfback passes. Oh, and fire that idiot Marciano.

[HPF Bob]

Originally Posted by NBT

Why, Capers couldn't even get us to 8-8?

Precisely. He did get us to 7-9 before he fell off the wagon. People forget that we had set ourselves up for a nice future after the first three seasons then it all went to hell in the fourth one.

There are some things I don't like about Kubiak and I think, like Shanahan, that he doesn't have a clue how to run a defense and gets too cute on offense. I'd love me some smashmouth up front but we just never get the blockers to make it work. Don't know how you fix that when you focus on the d-line every year.

[NBT]

I don't know how to answer those questions. I just know that I look at Denver, and see how quickly they rebounded after getting a fresh new coach. I yearn for that in Houston, as I have done for lo these many years.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by chuck

If I owned the team I'd try to figure out if the players wanted to play for Kubiak. Do they believe in him? Will they bust their ass for him?

Quarterback Matt Schaub insists Kubiak still has the support of his players.
"We continually support him so we've got his back,'' Schaub said. "We're all in this together. We're going to have his back until the end. We're going to fight through this thing. We have the utmost confidence in him and he in us and we're just going to continue down that road.''
**
Receiver Andre Johnson, who's been with the Texans since 2003, said people outside of the organization don't realize what a mess things were when Kubiak took over and how much he's done to improve the franchise. He's turned an offense that was once known for little more than Carr's repeated sacks into one of the top units in the league.
"I think he's changed the attitude of the team because he's been on teams where they've won Super Bowls and things like that so he knows what it takes,'' Johnson said. "He's just as frustrated as everybody else. He knows that we have the talent to go out and do things and get things accomplished, but it's just not happening.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ritethru.0902/
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I'm not necessarily a big fan of Kubiaks retention, but to answer your question apparently some of the teams key players are.

[mussop]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

Quarterback Matt Schaub insists Kubiak still has the support of his players.
"We continually support him so we've got his back,'' Schaub said. "We're all in this together. We're going to have his back until the end. We're going to fight through this thing. We have the utmost confidence in him and he in us and we're just going to continue down that road.''
**
Receiver Andre Johnson, who's been with the Texans since 2003, said people outside of the organization don't realize what a mess things were when Kubiak took over and how much he's done to improve the franchise. He's turned an offense that was once known for little more than Carr's repeated sacks into one of the top units in the league."I think he's changed the attitude of the team because he's been on teams where they've won Super Bowls and things like that so he knows what it takes,'' Johnson said. "He's just as frustrated as everybody else. He knows that we have the talent to go out and do things and get things accomplished, but it's just not happening.http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ritethru.0902/
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I'm not necessarily a big fan of Kubiaks retention, but to answer your question apparently some of the teams key players are.

Kubiak brought Schaub here of course hes going to say that.


Here are some more quotes from Johnson to chew on.

“There are times they do things that have me scratching my head,” Johnson said. “I can't lie about that. I mean, really scratching my head.”

“There are times I am sitting around wondering if it is ever going to happen here.

“Do I have to go to another team for it to happen?”

Of course he also says in that article he doesnt want to go anywhere else "right now" so take it how you want it.

McNair needs to go all out and try and get Cowher in here NOW. Kubiak hasnt improved as a head coach in any aspect since he got here. Hes just not ready for a head job right now. He has had four years to improve. I dont see what he has done in that time that makes people think he is even close to figuring it out. Hes a great guy and some day he'll PROBABLY be a good head coach but lets not piss away our top players prime years HOPING he all the sudden becomes a real HC here. Let him get his on the job training somewhere else and lets get a leader thats been there and done that.

[Nconroe]

Ok, it's been frustrating because we started out with high expectations.

Our offense is overall ranked 8th, and defense overall ranked 13th now, so they are moving up as season progresses.

Lots of young talent and coaches on the team and several significant injuries.

Plus, many heartbreaking, could of won losses, in position to win, just a missed field goal, fumble, interception away, so seems the can't do it analysis really is not accurate.

Stability on a team is one of key factors to winning, so keep the stabiltiy.

Also, I think if you are listening to AJ, he wants to stay and we shouldn't try to talk him into leaving please, we need to keep AJ.

[idymoe]

Originally Posted by NBT

I think it was Bum who said, I can beat you with our'n, and I can beat you with your'n. If that doesn't mean coaching is the defining thing, I don't know what would be. Kubiak is just not going to get the job done. Why not realize that now, and go ahead and make the move? He can fall on his sword for the players all he wants to but the bottom line is he has had four years to do it, and, while we have improved, we still aren't any closer to the SB than we were.

The quote was by Bum, but he wasn't talking about himself. He was talking about Bear Bryant. He said, "he could take his'n and beat your'n, or he could take your'n and beat his'n."

By the way, if you don't think we have a way better team than 4 years ago, then I don't know what to say.

[NBT]

Right it was Bear Bryant, and my intent was to speak to the way some coaches get the utmost out of their players, and some just don't. Up to now Kubes has not.

Four games better is not the playoffs, and that is what this whole town is thirsting for.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by NBT

Right it was Bear Bryant, and my intent was to speak to the way some coaches get the utmost out of their players, and some just don't. Up to now Kubes has not.

Four games better is not the playoffs, and that is what this whole town is thirsting for.

please check out my post

Bum was talking about Don Shula. Not Bear Bryant.

My reason for voting in favor of Kubiak for one more year is if you go back through the season, we are only a handful of plays going in the other direction from being a top 5 team record wise.

I fear changing HC would mean a step back for a year or two, something none of us wants to do again.

Also if the team adds 3 new starters in the next draft that upgrades us like Cushing did, we would have to be a playoff team.... don't we?

[barrett]

Originally Posted by painekiller

please check out my post

Bum was talking about Don Shula. Not Bear Bryant.

My reason for voting in favor of Kubiak for one more year is if you go back through the season, we are only a handful of plays going in the other direction from being a top 5 team record wise.

I fear changing HC would mean a step back for a year or two, something none of us wants to do again.

Also if the team adds 3 new starters in the next draft that upgrades us like Cushing did, we would have to be a playoff team.... don't we?

A few thoughts.

How do we make those "handful of plays" next year with the same crew in key positions. An NFL team has an identity and a culture. Our team is an offensive team and there are only two places from which we can change the culture of our team, QB and Head Coach. To me, you can't have two guys deciding our fate who have never suceeded in their current jobs. And since replacing Schaub is equal to a do over, I think the easier switch is Kubiak.

Many teams change head coaches, and very few step back (unless there is a rebuilding goal). Many coaches like Dungy and Gruden stepped in and pushed there teams over the top. If you hire the right coach, nothing says you are going to step back a year or two.

How are we supposed pick up 3 guys in the draft that upgrade us like Cushing did?

Kubiak is great from Monday to Saturday, but he is a bad gameday coach. I just don't see this changing for him with on the job training. I think he'll leave Houston unsuccessful and it will be a few years of play calling as an OC before he works out the kinks and truly settles in as a Head Coach. Either way he helped move our franchise forward and I am grateful for that. I just think he has taken us as far as he is going to.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by barrett

How are we supposed pick up 3 guys in the draft that upgrade us like Cushing did?

In another thread I showed these off seasons moves.

1st Joe Haden CB Florida
trade our 1st and 2nd from 2011 for
1st Dan Williams DT/NT 6-3 322 Tennessee
2nd Jon Asamoah OG 06-4 308 Illinois
3rd Toby Gerhart RB 6-1 235 Stanford
4th Vince Oghobaase DT/NT 6-6 302 Duke
5th Mike Pouncey OG 6-5 315 Florida OG
6th Justin Woodall S 6-2 221 Alabama
Travis Johnson pick 6th Daniel Thomas RB 6-2 227 Kansas State
7th Darryl Sharpton LB 5-11 237 Miami

Haden takes the place of Dunta. You sign him and get him to camp. He will help this team.

Dan Williams has little Hayneworth in him IMO, he has the ability to split double teams and that makes a difference.

Asamoah and Pouncey are upgrades to the guys we have. Size with feet.

I want a defensive front 7 that is big strong and quick. If you read my post I make a move for Derrick Johnson. My front 7 would be, Smith, Robinson, Dan Williams, Mario Williams infront of Cushing Ryans and DJ. Your back up DL is made up of Barwin, Oghobaase, Okoya, Cody, Okam, Jamison, and Bulman.

[HPF Bob]

Originally Posted by idymoe

The quote was by Bum, but he wasn't talking about himself. He was talking about Bear Bryant. He said, "he could take his'n and beat your'n, or he could take your'n and beat his'n."

By the way, if you don't think we have a way better team than 4 years ago, then I don't know what to say.

He might have said it about Bear Bryant (he was an assistant for him at one point), but the quote came from Bum about Don Shula. He was noting that Shula had won the Super Bowl with a rush-oriented offense in the early 70s and had converted the Dolphins to a pass-happy offense by the late 70s. He said this before Marino and the "Marks Brothers" too.

[HPF Bob]

Rumors out of Dallas are that Jerry Jones wants to hire Shanahan before the rival Redskins do and that the Texans are also interested. That's intriguing in that Shanahan replaced Wade Phillips as head coach in Denver way back when.

However, I think this is disinformation to try to give Shanahan greater contract leverage and probably sources back to his agent. Create competition and it drives up the price. Plus, I think McNair is smart enough to know that if he hires Shanahan, all he is getting is Kubiak with a bigger ego. It won't solve one issue on the field. Shanahan can't help our defense and he also is prone to cutesy plays just like his old OC is.