So what?

[Big Texas]

Originally Posted by kravix

Complain about Meyers all you want but he is almost 300lbs, and according to Bruce Mathews, Meyers played very very well last year. Which should translate into this year. The entire line, pass protection, passing game, and run game is built off the zone system. Bringing in some big maulers will only jack the whole thing up. You cannot have the best of both worlds, we saw that with Sherman.

I will definitely complain about Meyers, not because he is a terrible offensive lineman, but because he has consistently been overpowered all season long. I have watched and re-watched these games where the DTs are getting off the ball faster than he is (and he is snapping the ball). They then proceed to push him 1-3 yards into the backfield.

One of the main plays of the ZB scheme is the stretch play. So in order for there to be cutback lanes, our O Line (especially the interior) have to be explosive and quick. This has not been happening.

So we have been demonstrating all season long that we can throw the ball. The point now is to be able to gain, 1-3 yards consistently. We need someone to be able to at least hold the point of attack. Hence the need for a Jumbo package.

Again they should not be replacing our current OLine but rather coming in on specific occasions.

Side note: Caldwell held up really well Sunday. It also helped that Peko and Odom both were injured early on.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Big Texas

I will definitely complain about Meyers, not because he is a terrible offensive lineman, but because he has consistently been overpowered all season long. I have watched and re-watched these games where the DTs are getting off the ball faster than he is (and he is snapping the ball). They then proceed to push him 1-3 yards into the backfield.

One of the main plays of the ZB scheme is the stretch play. So in order for there to be cutback lanes, our O Line (especially the interior) have to be explosive and quick. This has not been happening.

So we have been demonstrating all season long that we can throw the ball. The point now is to be able to gain, 1-3 yards consistently. We need someone to be able to at least hold the point of attack. Hence the need for a Jumbo package.

Again they should not be replacing our current OLine but rather coming in on specific occasions.

Side note: Caldwell held up really well Sunday. It also helped that Peko and Odom both were injured early on.

Bringing in Jumbo lineman will tip the defense of our intention to run and make it even harder to run. I don't know of one NFL team that brings in different OL to run the ball or for short yardage. Not one.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by barrett

Bringing in Jumbo lineman will tip the defense of our intention to run and make it even harder to run. I don't know of one NFL team that brings in different OL to run the ball or for short yardage. Not one.

But the Pats do this with LBs at TE, and now KC has done this. You have to throw out of this to make it effective.

Barrett it's like you and Roy both are saying, we are to predictable because of our hybrid offense. Gibbs plays are clearly defined and everyone knows the play. Play assignment football and the defense wins.

Use a spread offense to run? Can you do that? The run and shoot was based on the pass setting up the run. The original WCO was the short pass was used to set up the long pass.

I want what you guys are saying, and it's similar to the old Run and Gun offense of Buffalo and Sam Wyche's Bengals. Multiple sets, motion, mismatched LBs trying to cover RBs with WR skills, TE that could run block or split the seem.

Also, I want to add some of the Wildcat sets. .

Kubiak is finally playing to his players strength, not to some ideal he wants.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by painekiller

But the Pats do this with LBs at TE, and now KC has done this. You have to throw out of this to make it effective.

Barrett it's like you and Roy both are saying, we are to predictable because of our hybrid offense. Gibbs plays are clearly defined and everyone knows the play. Play assignment football and the defense wins.

Use a spread offense to run? Can you do that? The run and shoot was based on the pass setting up the run. The original WCO was the short pass was used to set up the long pass.

I want what you guys are saying, and it's similar to the old Run and Gun offense of Buffalo and Sam Wyche's Bengals. Multiple sets, motion, mismatched LBs trying to cover RBs with WR skills, TE that could run block or split the seem.

Also, I want to add some of the Wildcat sets. .

Kubiak is finally playing to his players strength, not to some ideal he wants.

I totally agree with you. Well almost. I don't think you go wildcat if you can beat a team straight up with your offense. But I don't mind it as an option for when we struggle and need to change the pace.

As for going jumbo, I think it can work and there may be a time for it, but I just think this offense is so good that you are taking a playmaker out no matter who it is.

But bottom line is I think Kubiak knows he has to do this with his current team, but doesn't like it. That's why the foot came off the gas and he went back to what was comfortable in the 4th quarter once we had a lead. If he was coaching the Pats yesterday they would have beaten Tennessee 10-0 instead of 59-0. He needs to view throwing the ball as a giant advantage his team can do in every situation, not as a deal with the devil he has to make this year because we can't run it.

I would be shocked if we don't lose at least one game where we pass for a lead and then try to run it in the 4th and let a team come back to beat us.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by barrett

He needs to view throwing the ball as a giant advantage his team can do in every situation, not as a deal with the devil he has to make this year because we can't run it.

I would be shocked if we don't lose at least one game where we pass for a lead and then try to run it in the 4th and let a team come back to beat us.

I will say, that some kind of balance has to be met. In the Oiler days when Kevin Gilbride was calling the plays, there where times you needed to speed the clock up, and running the ball was that tool. 60% passing still stops the clock way to much, and two missed passes in row, and you are looking at handing the ball back to the other team before the defense has had time to rest. BTW Buddy Ryan tried to teach Kevin that lesson with a right cross, total dysfunction, but that's another story.

I agree use the pass to set up the run. Run from the spread and pass from the I formation at times to keep the defense honest. I also admit our play action pass game is one of the best in the NFL, if only Schaub could throw better on the run. Use screens and dump off to slow the rush down. Never take Andre Johnson out of the game near the goal line, and call that WR screen more often, it doesn't matter if it's to AJ or Slaton.

[Joshua]

Agree 100% with everything Barrett is saying. Probably the most cogent explanation of the reason our offense occasionally struggles. My buddies and I sit in section 611 and can routinely call the play pre-snap simply based on the personnel and formation. I suspect that if we can do it in section 611 after about 4 beers, most D coordinators can do it as well.

Finally, I must say I'm perplexed by Kubes somewhat. He has always preached running the ball, but yet he's never done anything to actually improve our ability to do so. Instead, we continually draft receivers and tight ends. I'm not complaining because it has created a pretty potent passing attack for us. I just find it weird that he places such a premium on being a run-first team, then does nothing to actually acquire the players to do it.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Joshua

Agree 100% with everything Barrett is saying. Probably the most cogent explanation of the reason our offense occasionally struggles. My buddies and I sit in section 611 and can routinely call the play pre-snap simply based on the personnel and formation. I suspect that if we can do it in section 611 after about 4 beers, most D coordinators can do it as well.

Finally, I must say I'm perplexed by Kubes somewhat. He has always preached running the ball, but yet he's never done anything to actually improve our ability to do so. Instead, we continually draft receivers and tight ends. I'm not complaining because it has created a pretty potent passing attack for us. I just find it weird that he places such a premium on being a run-first team, then does nothing to actually acquire the players to do it.

This has been my thought all year. We are doing a good job of picking players individually but we lack a sense of cohesiveness with what we attempt to do on the field and what we attempt to do on the personnel side. We seem to be putting together two different teams at the same time.

[papabear]

Originally Posted by Joshua

Finally, I must say I'm perplexed by Kubes somewhat. He has always preached running the ball, but yet he's never done anything to actually improve our ability to do so. Instead, we continually draft receivers and tight ends. I'm not complaining because it has created a pretty potent passing attack for us. I just find it weird that he places such a premium on being a run-first team, then does nothing to actually acquire the players to do it.

I think it's similar to the D-line. It's not as if they haven't tried, it just hasn't come together the way they planned. Since Kubes has gotten here he has drafted four O-lineman in the 3rd round or higher(one in the first). I consider anything 3rd round or higher to be very valuable, and while these picks were meant to help in pass protection as much as the run game they we're all guys Kubes felt fit with our Zone blocking scheme. He's also made a trade for Veteran Center(with experience in the scheme). He spent a fairly large amount of McNair cash for Ahman Green, and also brought in Chris Brown as a free agent. Of course he also drafted Slaton in the third round. Anthony Hill was also drafted in the fourth primarily as a run blocking TE. He also went out and got the most respected Zone Blocking guru there is out of retirement.

I'll agree that the results haven't been what we want, but I think you can definitely see the effort in that area. Not every problem can be fixed by a first round pick or a top flight free agent.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by barrett

I don't think you go wildcat if you can beat a team straight up with your offense. But I don't mind it as an option for when we struggle and need to change the pace.

The Wildcat could be used to sit on a lead and control clock. One of the problems the Colts have is that their defense is on the field for extended periods of time as teams run the ball and keep Peyton on the sidelines. Then the Colts' offense gets on the field and scores a TD in 75 seconds, causing that Defense to go back on the field before they've had a chance to catch their breath.

The question becomes who runs it? We don't have to great RB's like the Dolphins to make a defense respect the hand off. Would we take Schaub off the field or put him as a WR? Is this something Casey or Daniels could pull off to keep the threat of a pass? I don't know exactly

I'm still wanting to see Dreesen, Daniels, and Casey on the field at the same time for multiple pass plays.

[Big Texas]

Originally Posted by barrett

Bringing in Jumbo lineman will tip the defense of our intention to run and make it even harder to run. I don't know of one NFL team that brings in different OL to run the ball or for short yardage. Not one.

No other teams are running the wildcat as often as Miami. There has never been this many young head coaches in the league either. Now it has become popular. Also having two (and sometimes three) good backs by committee was not all that common a while back either. Now almost everyone has two good backs (besides us).

All that to say, someone had to start the trend. Who knows we may start the next trend.

So what other teams do or don't do is of little concern to me.

As far as tipping off the other team; for a large majority of the league (outside us), anything less than a yard is almost an automatic run anyway. So we just need to find a way (whatever works for us).

And I am not saying that the entire line needs to be replaced on short yardage. (specifically goal line situations) Maybe our weak links, or areas where the opposing DLineman is "massive".