The Safeties

[KJ3]

Originally Posted by painekiller

Well playmakers are not made they are born, IMO. And we have not had any DBs on our roster since Glenn that was a true playmaker. Until we draft for that trait, we will not have that trait. IMO.

bennett looks to be a playmaker. or a decent corner. i can't tell which because i'm biased to seeing faggins play uh-oh-cornerback.

we draft playmakers these days, just not so much in the backfield.
demeco has that trait, owen daniels, jacoby jones, fred bennett, slaton has the gene. we get a few every draft. production aside, they have the "vince young and espn's copyrighted term for vince young" factor.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by KJ3

we draft playmakers these days, just not so much in the backfield.
demeco has that trait, owen daniels, jacoby jones, fred bennett, slaton has the gene. we get a few every draft. production aside, they have the "vince young and espn's copyrighted term for vince young" factor.

I meant draft for playmaking in the defensive backfield. And I agree that Bennett shows signs.

[KJ3]

ah, i see.

OVER/UNDER in the defensive backfield for 2008:

fred bennett interceptions: 6.5
dunta's return (games missed): 5.5
will demps' real arms: 1.5
games c.c. brown starts: 8.5
injuries: 2.5

i say:
over
over
under
under
under

[RunninRaven]

I'm confused. Are yall saying that you don't think Dunta is a playmaker, or just that you think he may not be a playmaker when he returns due to his injury?

[KJ3]

i don't think dunta is a playmaker. he's about as solid of a cover corner as you can ask for but i don't think he's the type of player that routinely changes how offenses play. what's the most interceptions he's ever had?

EDIT: it's 6. with 19 passes deflected, 3 forced fumbles, 3 sacks, 74 tackles with 14 assists. that was 2004, the only year i would've called him a playmaker. 1/4 ain't bad but it's time to do it again you know what i mean?

[RunninRaven]

Originally Posted by KJ3

i don't think dunta is a playmaker. he's about as solid of a cover corner as you can ask for but i don't think he's the type of player that routinely changes how offenses play. what's the most interceptions he's ever had?

EDIT: it's 6. with 19 passes deflected, 3 forced fumbles, 3 sacks, 74 tackles with 14 assists. that was 2004, the only year i would've called him a playmaker. 1/4 ain't bad but it's time to do it again you know what i mean?

Yeah, but look at how many times teams threw at him. I swear, watching the games, you could go for what seemed like weeks at a time without a QB throwing in Dunta's direction. Now, that is partly because of the crap that has always been manning the other CB spot opposite Dunta, but also because he is so damn good. I think a team purposefully staying away from Dunta's side of the field is a perfect example of a playmaker. They are changing how they play because of him.

I wouldn't call him an elite cornerback (yet), but I would damn sure refer to him as a playmaker. And not just for his coverage skills either. He is very instrumental in run stopping on plays where the running back bounces to the outside.

Stats won't tell you everything.

Edit: Well, I've tried desperately now to locate a "Thrown At" statistic, but it seems no one keeps them. I maintain my belief that for the amount of attempts Dunta gets at either defending a pass or making an interception, he is as big a playmaker as just about any of the top cornerbacks. He just has fewer chances.

[papabear]

Originally Posted by RunninRaven

Yeah, but look at how many times teams threw at him. I swear, watching the games, you could go for what seemed like weeks at a time without a QB throwing in Dunta's direction. Now, that is partly because of the crap that has always been manning the other CB spot opposite Dunta, but also because he is so damn good. I think a team purposefully staying away from Dunta's side of the field is a perfect example of a playmaker. They are changing how they play because of him.

I wouldn't call him an elite cornerback (yet), but I would damn sure refer to him as a playmaker. And not just for his coverage skills either. He is very instrumental in run stopping on plays where the running back bounces to the outside.

Stats won't tell you everything.

I disagree with you about how much teams really stay away from him. There have been occasions where they might have picked on someone else (I wonder who), but that had as much to do with the play of the rest of the secondary as it did with Dunta. It's just one example, but the Titans had no problem going at Dunta with the game on the line....the game where we made the huge comeback and then let it slip away after taking the lead. That was one of those cases where you just have to say that there guy made a good play. It's not like he got beat, but he didn't knock it away either.

Like I said, that's just one play. I think if you went back and looked at the tape and tracked just how many times teams threw his direction you would be surprised. I'm not saying he's not a very good corner, but teams weren't terrified to throw to his side of the field either.

[KJ3]

Originally Posted by RunninRaven

Yeah, but look at how many times teams threw at him. I swear, watching the games, you could go for what seemed like weeks at a time without a QB throwing in Dunta's direction. Now, that is partly because of the crap that has always been manning the other CB spot opposite Dunta, but also because he is so damn good. I think a team purposefully staying away from Dunta's side of the field is a perfect example of a playmaker. They are changing how they play because of him.

I wouldn't call him an elite cornerback (yet), but I would damn sure refer to him as a playmaker. And not just for his coverage skills either. He is very instrumental in run stopping on plays where the running back bounces to the outside.

Stats won't tell you everything.

they tell enough. i totally agree with you that teams throw more at the (obviously, in this case) weaker cb but he does get his chances though and usually makes good on them. and even so, he still doesn't put up the kind of numbers that playmakers put up. we all love dunta, but he doesn't regularly change games. at least he hasn't in a few years...

Edit: Well, I've tried desperately now to locate a "Thrown At" statistic, but it seems no one keeps them. I maintain my belief that for the amount of attempts Dunta gets at either defending a pass or making an interception, he is as big a playmaker as just about any of the top cornerbacks. He just has fewer chances.

man, i hate to do it...i hate to do this to dunta....
~by year~ 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007
DUNTA- 6, 1, 2, 2
A.Cromartie- X, X, 0, 10 in his first real year
C. Bailey- 3, 8, 10, 3
A. Sameul 1, 3, 10, 6
E. Reed- 9, 1, 5, 7
D. Bly- 4, 6, 3, 5
R. Williams- 2, 3, 5, 2
C. Woodson- 1, 1, 8, 4
B. Dawkins- 4, 3, 4, 1

just a few well known guys who are more playmaker (in the int. department anyway) than dunta in dunta's 4 years. putting roy williams up there hurt me a little but i won't ignore truth for homeristic thoughts.

[papabear]

Originally Posted by RunninRaven

Edit: Well, I've tried desperately now to locate a "Thrown At" statistic, but it seems no one keeps them.

KC Joyner usually tracks something like that, but you have to buy his book. I've got it from last year. I might get it again this year.....I'll try and remember to look and see what he's got on it in my older version, and if I buy the new one I will try to pass that along too.