Marciano - Fired!!

[Arky]

Originally Posted by barrett

I'm wasting everyone's time by whining about McNair? Wow. Just wow.

Well, yeah. Because, ya know, you don't have any control of the situation except to come on a public forum and throw out some crackpot speculation... Portraying McNair as some conniving fleece-meister is just disingenuous as all get out......

Aren't you the guy who just told me this week that you were responding on this site to "Case Bashers" FROM OTHER SITES, and you would do it as much as you wanted to. And now I am wasting your time by complaining about the owner who presided over this 2-11 mess?

Exactly. McNair bashers and Case bashers are usually the same breed - from the same tribe.... Many times, one and the same. Over the top. People pretending like they know what goes on behind the scenes... They're in every forum. If you think the franchise stinks from top to bottom, why don't you find something other to do with your time? At present, I only see frustration and anger in your future.... If the Texans won a SuperBowl next year, people would be bitching about it taking too damn long....

I don't care if McNair is your actual grandfather or just a kindly old grandfather type. I don't care if he is a good man and wants a winner. I don't care if he's sick of Matt Schaub. I care if he hires good people, and he hasn't. He protected Marciano in the last changeover. He hired Kubiak.

High crimes, I tell ya....

He didn't fire an NFL head coach with a sub .500 career record and a 10 game losing streak, and then he did fire the same HC saying it was partly about not playing a QB who has never won an NFL game. Either he likes feeding a hometown hero to the fans because they are dumb enough to be distracted by him being "interesting" (present company included), or he really was just sick of Schaub and he has no business forming opinions on who should play QB for this team. It is no win for him.

The bolded is just speculation, opinion, just a tad venomous and I could not disagree more. We as fans are entitled to nothing. The owner and team owe us nothing. We support the team of our own free will. If they suck, they suck - can't do a damn thing about it except not patronize them. Some people get on a forum and whine about how them mean ol' Texans done did them wrong. I understand that. I can handle it to a certain point until people start making s**t up.

[HPF Bob]

The only point to housecleaning now is that it sends a message to the players and fans that what is happening is unacceptable. I think the decision was weeks ago but Thursday night's 14-penalty fiasco was too much to save face.

Schaub gives the Texans a slightly better chance to win now but Keenum needs as much OJT as possible. I think by putting in Schaub, Kubiak may have forced McNair's hand.

Marciano's firing is a bit more satisfying to me. We get way too many ST penalties and that's on the coaches. Letting Jacoby Jones and Trindon Holliday go is just icing on the cake.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

The only point to housecleaning now is that it sends a message to the players and fans that what is happening is unacceptable. I think the decision was weeks ago but Thursday night's 14-penalty fiasco was too much to save face.

Schaub gives the Texans a slightly better chance to win now but Keenum needs as much OJT as possible. I think by putting in Schaub, Kubiak may have forced McNair's hand.

Marciano's firing is a bit more satisfying to me. We get way too many ST penalties and that's on the coaches. Letting Jacoby Jones and Trindon Holliday go is just icing on the cake.

I agree Bob, it's a message sent. I agree that the decision was made weeks ago, and I agree that putting Schaub back in was the final straw. You cannot expect the lame duck coach who has no future here to care about the future and that is why you get him out if it is play for the future time.

[Nconroe]

Originally Posted by barrett

I agree Bob, it's a message sent. I agree that the decision was made weeks ago, and I agree that putting Schaub back in was the final straw. You cannot expect the lame duck coach who has no future here to care about the future and that is why you get him out if it is play for the future time.

I'd agree with this opinion on the reason and timing of the dismissals.

Even Kubes said a couple weeks back we need to start playing the younger guys more.

Of course desire to win is also there.

There are always pros and cons on opinions and decisions. Plenty theories on what went wrong this year.

Now, I seem to remember most here wanted to get rid of Jacoby and Trindon at the time. Of course other ST coavhes seemed to get more consistency, not sure if it was experience and maturity or coaching.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Nconroe

I'd agree with this opinion on the reason and timing of the dismissals.

Even Kubes said a couple weeks back we need to start playing the younger guys more.

Of course desire to win is also there.

There are always pros and cons on opinions and decisions. Plenty theories on what went wrong this year.

Now, I seem to remember most here wanted to get rid of Jacoby and Trindon at the time. Of course other ST coavhes seemed to get more consistency, not sure if it was experience and maturity or coaching.

Jacoby went for the playoff fumble. He needed a fresh start and new fans.

I still wouldn't touch Holliday. They pull him everytime there is a big moment because they are afraid he won't catch it. How can you have a return specialist who gets pulled because he can't catch kicks? I am fine with Martin on Punts (it's kickoffs he's terrible at).

[Arky]

Originally Posted by barrett

Jacoby went for the playoff fumble. He needed a fresh start and new fans.

I still wouldn't touch Holliday. They pull him everytime there is a big moment because they are afraid he won't catch it. How can you have a return specialist who gets pulled because he can't catch kicks? I am fine with Martin on Punts (it's kickoffs he's terrible at).

According to McClain, Jacoby asked to be traded because the fans were so upset with him.

But yeah, both needed to go.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Arky

Eh, we're all fans - it's what we do. We bitch, complain, knee-jerk and whine. And it's a good thing we aren't in charge....

So it's ok as long as it doesn't have anything to do with McNair because owners are off limits?

Originally Posted by Arky

Kubes still talking up his boy Matt Schaub post game last night.....


Keenum fans won't have to worry about Kubiak half-assing his development anymore. Kubiak did a few things with/to Keenum he would never do with Matt Schaub..... McNair sounded like a bit of a Keenum fan himself during the presser....

So you can bash Kubiak and Schaub and make up theories with no facts, like Kubiak is sabotaging Keenum, but I offer an opinion on McNair and it's unfair?

You are totally inconsistent in your arguments. Are we free will fans who need to shut up and take it or walk? Is it wrong to speculate and make things up or not?

The only consistent thing about you the last few weeks is that Keenum can do no wrong and anyone who falls short of worshipping the guy gets argued with.

[Arky]

Originally Posted by barrett

So it's ok as long as it doesn't have anything to do with McNair because owners are off limits?

No, owners are open to criticism. Just don't make stuff up.

So you can bash Kubiak and Schaub and make up theories with no facts, like Kubiak is sabotaging Keenum, but I offer an opinion on McNair and it's unfair?

I'd say Kubiak pulling Keenum twice can't be doing the young man's confidence any good. There's your fact. Out there on this internet thingy, there's quite a few people that have suspicions that Kubiak is/was hampering and half-assing Keenum's development.

You are totally inconsistent in your arguments. Are we free will fans who need to shut up and take it or walk? Is it wrong to speculate and make things up or not?

There are no rules. Speculate and opine all you want. Make things up and expect to be responded to.

The only consistent thing about you the last few weeks is that Keenum can do no wrong and anyone who falls short of worshipping the guy gets argued with.

Ah, but you don't point out when I've admitted Keenum has stunk it up. He looked pretty good against New England. Not so hot Thursday against Jax. I'd say he's done a decent job in about half his starts. The rest not so much. Not unexpected from a guy who was playing DB on the practice squad several weeks ago.

Ya know, responding to everything with an accusatory attitude don't make you right. I can handle a lot of bent, twisted ideas and innuendo when there is a kernel of truth involved. Something ringing totally false, not so much.

I think this is the part where we agree to disagree. Don't know about you, but I've got a lot better things to do...

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Arky

Out there on this internet thingy, there's quite a few people that have suspicions that Kubiak is/was hampering and half-assing Keenum's development.

If it's on the internet then it must be true.

But seriously, you say you are basing it on facts and not making things up like me. That facts show Kubiak is not helping Keenum and is working against him.

Facts would say Kubiak signing Keenum last year, praising him for 2 straight years, letting him compete for the backup job, jumping him ahead of Yates to start, giving him 6 consecutive starts even though he's never won a game, and grooming him from UDFA to starting QB show that Kubaik has greatly helped Keenum's development. Kubiak may be a below average HC (by definition, more wins than losses), but he has gotten better QB play compared to QB talent than most do. You said Keenum stunk it up in the Jags game, and yet when Kubiak pulled him for stinking it up, you think it is some kind of plot to ruin his development? And then you quote the existence of anonymous internet message board posts (from another message board), as proof you are right?

And then with a straight face you say I can complain but I'll be called on it when I make stuff up? Will you stop calling me on it if I said there are others on the internet (Chuck) that think it's true? By your backwards logic doesn't that mean it's a fact based theory and not one I made up?

[Arky]

Originally Posted by barrett

If it's on the internet then it must be true.

But seriously, you say you are basing it on facts and not making things up like me. That facts show Kubiak is not helping Keenum and is working against him.

Facts would say Kubiak signing Keenum last year, praising him for 2 straight years, letting him compete for the backup job, jumping him ahead of Yates to start, giving him 6 consecutive starts even though he's never won a game, and grooming him from UDFA to starting QB show that Kubaik has greatly helped Keenum's development. Kubiak may be a below average HC (by definition, more wins than losses), but he has gotten better QB play compared to QB talent than most do. You said Keenum stunk it up in the Jags game, and yet when Kubiak pulled him for stinking it up, you think it is some kind of plot to ruin his development? And then you quote the existence of anonymous internet message board posts (from another message board), as proof you are right?

And then with a straight face you say I can complain but I'll be called on it when I make stuff up? Will you stop calling me on it if I said there are others on the internet (Chuck) that think it's true? By your backwards logic doesn't that mean it's a fact based theory and not one I made up?

Too many questions. Waste. Of. Time.

But, hey, you got Chuck in your corner. lol

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Arky

Too many questions. Waste. Of. Time.

But, hey, you got Chuck in your corner. lol

I'm sorry I had to go ahead and bring logic into it.

Go Texans and let's make a great hire. I'm for Gruden.

[Arky]

Originally Posted by barrett

I'm sorry I had to go ahead and bring logic into it.

No, the discussion began because I was questioning your logic - your portrayal of conniving old McNair as pandering to the fans. I disagreed and presented my side.

Then, you get all strawman, bring in some of my past viewpoints, ask 28 questions to analyze my logic and generally suggesting I don't have my s**t straight.

It's kinda like when I was a younger fella: I had some buds who went through a "everyone's a hypocrite" stage. They could spin things to make anybody out as a hypocrite - even a preacher. I kinda get that feeling with you and "logic" in our back and forth. And that's why I'm reluctant to continue - not to mention the huge time suck..... Thank god, they eventually moved on. Besides, I just got Batman: Arkham Origins and I need to go kick the Penguin's butt...

[HPF Bob]

Originally Posted by barrett

Facts would say Kubiak signing Keenum last year, praising him for 2 straight years, letting him compete for the backup job, jumping him ahead of Yates to start, giving him 6 consecutive starts even though he's never won a game, and grooming him from UDFA to starting QB show that Kubaik has greatly helped Keenum's development.

I certainly agree with this part. No doubt Kubiak helped to develop and groom Keenum but that doesn't mean Kubiak, who wants to win and wants to show his players he wants to win, agrees with the decision to play him over Schaub so when the game is close late and Keenum has not looked all that sharp, he brings in Schaub to try to win the game.

I really don't fault Kubiak for doing that but if it defies orders from Smith or McNair, I can see why that might have been the final straw to getting fired now instead of next month.

To me, it's the 14 penalties that said "time to go". The players know he's a lame duck and aren't listening to him. They're going through the motions instead of auditioning for whomever the new coach turns out to be.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Arky

I can handle a lot of bent, twisted ideas and innuendo when there is a kernel of truth involved. Something ringing totally false, not so much.

You seriously don't think there is even a kernel of truth to the fact that McNair prefers Keenum on the field because fans like it?

[Arky]

Originally Posted by barrett

You seriously don't think there is even a kernel of truth to the fact that McNair prefers Keenum on the field because fans like it?

Seriously (I was wondering when this word would enter the conversation).

I think McNair likes Keenum himself and was disappointed when Matt "no future here" Schaub entered the game....

[Nconroe]

I'm getting a bowl of chili now, hot and spicy. I will check back in a few hours to see how this entertaining discussion is going.

I vote to keep McNair whatever theory one might have. I believe winning SB is his main motivation. Sure satisfied fans and making a profit are part of any business.

[chuck]

I'm being given as a reference in an internet argument. Awesome.