The zone running back

cland · #1 01-14-2010, 05:18 PM

I'm copying my own quote from over at Texans talk. Here's my take on the type of running back this teams needs to fit its system. The first part is referring to some of the current first-round running backs that were suggested.

Quote:

In all honesty, I'm not much of a fan of Spiller, Best, or Dwyer. Not with the picks that we'd have to use to get them. I think the type of back that Spiller and Best seem to be, is too similar to what we've got with Slaton. On the other hand Dwyer looks like a Lendale White type of back that would be better off in a power blocking system. One where the back has a hole assigned, and will hit that hole like a train.

The type of back we need has been cliched as the "one-cut" back. This type of runner can flow to the assigned side, but has explosiveness in his first cut to take advantage of the seams that the zone-blocking system opens up. He makes a powerful cut, then burst through that hole into open space. This type of back is very different from a 'slashing type of back' that Dwyer seems to be, who stays on the original track.

Spiller and Best (and Slayton) can make that move so long as they haven't been touched. A real zone runner makes that move even through incidental and non-impacting contact. The best style of runner I can think of is Rashad Mendenhall. Check this video of Rashad: Zone Runner

Ideally you're looking for a guy with a powerful cut, that break arm tackles, and above protects the ball through traffic. He may not necessarily have the 4.3 or 4.4 speed that you're third-down/speed back brings (or top of the draft runners like AD has) but his ability to powerfully change direction and a vision to see the seam, takes advantage of all the seal blocks that the ZBS is made out of.

Trust me, if you had a Mendenhall clone and some improvement in our current G/C's, noone would ever be posting that the ZBS is dead.

Now I admit I'm not much of a college football guy (unless I'm scouting a favorite NFL draft choice) so my real question is: Has anyone has found a guy similar to the running back that I have described above.

Blitzwood · #2 01-14-2010, 09:44 PM

Contrary to what some here might say, RB is a HUGE need for this offseason.
We're ranked 30th running, need I say more, and A.Foster had one good game this season. It's a foregone conclusion C.Brown is gone this season, so ideally we could use a couple RB to provide depth next season. IIRC, Dennison utilized 5 RB's this past season in Denver.

A couple guys I like are:

Joe McKnight USC 6-0 200
Breaks tackles well, has good vision, blazing speed, tough to bring down
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPLZagWioUU

Charles Scott LSU 6-0 235
A TOTAL BEAST, north-south type runner, great one cut RB for our scheme
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROrIY31e7yE

Imagine what this team could have done this year with a good running game....

Roy P · #3 01-14-2010, 09:48 PM

RB Ryan Matthews 5'11" 220 Fresno St.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4kGNjdFgpg

Pay particular attention at around 2:12

Roy P · #4 01-14-2010, 10:00 PM

There are other highlights of Mathews that are impressive. Fresno runs some traps as well as ZBS principles. Mathews also knows how to follow a fullback as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uF7rb...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yBY7...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8fLyL1yHmg&NR=1
This last link has "still photos" for the first 26 seconds, then video highlights. About 45-52 seconds, you see him in the Red Zone running behind a ZBS line and a fullback

I'll let the rest of the video speak for itself.

HPF Bob · #5 01-15-2010, 12:47 AM

McKnight is likely a first-rounder and I don't want to use a first-rounder for a RB. Scott worries me because he disappeared too often in big games this year. Matthews probably goes round 2 or 3 and I like the one-cut technique. He lacks breakaway speed but that's OK. Terrell Davis lacked breakaway speed too.

I'd be glad to see what the scouts think about the three RBs and any others you think would be an upgrade.

nunusguy · #6 01-15-2010, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

McKnight is likely a first-rounder and I don't want to use a first-rounder for a RB.

Couldn't agree more, especially since running backs are a "dime a dozen".
Hey, we plug in this Foster guy (who was an undrafted rookie) for just 2 games this past season and he basically averages 100 yards a game for us.

nero THE zero · #7 01-15-2010, 03:06 PM

From what I've read/seen, Montario Hardesty is an ideal zone back.

Though, I disagree with your assessment of Dwyer; I've watched a considerable amount of him and he cuts just fine.

Blitzwood · #8 01-17-2010, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

McKnight is likely a first-rounder and I don't want to use a first-rounder for a RB. Scott worries me because he disappeared too often in big games this year. Matthews probably goes round 2 or 3 and I like the one-cut technique. He lacks breakaway speed but that's OK. Terrell Davis lacked breakaway speed too.

I'd be glad to see what the scouts think about the three RBs and any others you think would be an upgrade.

I highly doubt McKight gets drafted in the first round, at least I haven't seen any mocks with him in round one.

Also, Scott was injured the latter part of the season(fractured clavicle) so that probably explains his disappearing act.

Blitzwood · #9 01-17-2010, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nunusguy

Couldn't agree more, especially since running backs are a "dime a dozen".
Hey, we plug in this Foster guy (who was an undrafted rookie) for just 2 games this past season and he basically averages 100 yards a game for us.

That kind of thinking has us ranked 30th running the ball and a total failure in the red zone......

Maybe we should resign Ahman Green and Chris Brown since we just need to plug guys in, right? I hear they'll be willing to re-up....

kRocket · #10 01-17-2010, 10:16 PM

To my great sadness you guys are talking like the ZBS is a foregone conclusion. Depending on Pitts' comeback 2 to 3 fifths of our OL may be new next year. Are you sure you want to pick a back based on a somewhat teetering conclusion as to what kind of back we need.

IIRC Foster ran very well during the pre-season but was put on the PS because of his blocking inadequacies. I don't think it had anything to do with whether he could run or not.

HPF Bob · #11 01-17-2010, 10:44 PM

If so, Foster learned really well. His blitz pickup was one of the things I thought he did exceptionally well in his brief appearance.

edo783 · #12 01-17-2010, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

If so, Foster learned really well. His blitz pickup was one of the things I thought he did exceptionally well in his brief appearance.

It was one of the reasons they PSed him and you are correct, when he got his chance, he showed he had learned to pickup the blitz.

Roy P · #13 01-17-2010, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kRocket

To my great sadness you guys are talking like the ZBS is a foregone conclusion. Depending on Pitts' comeback 2 to 3 fifths of our OL may be new next year. Are you sure you want to pick a back based on a somewhat teetering conclusion as to what kind of back we need.

Dennison doesn't run a ZBS? This could be good news.

nero THE zero · #14 01-19-2010, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy P

Dennison doesn't run a ZBS? This could be good news.

Yes, he does. He replaced Gibbs as Denver's OL coach and replaced Kubiak as Denver's OC.

Roy P · #15 01-19-2010, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy P

Dennison doesn't run a ZBS? This could be good news.

Sorry, I didn't have a sarcastic face to go along with my statement.

While I am not 100% happy with the ZBS when it comes to short yardage situations, I don't think the departure of Alex Gibbs means we don't have to find a "Prototypical" ZBS Running Back. If we could clone Terrell Davis, that would be good.

nero THE zero · #16 01-20-2010, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy P

Sorry, I didn't have a sarcastic face to go along with my statement.

While I am not 100% happy with the ZBS when it comes to short yardage situations, I don't think the departure of Alex Gibbs means we don't have to find a "Prototypical" ZBS Running Back. If we could clone Terrell Davis, that would be good.

I've seen someone throw out the idea that bringing in a younger guy to coach the ZBS might be beneficial. The suggestion is that Gibbs is so set in his ways that he doesn't allow the scheme to adjust to new trends in the NFL; that a younger guy can bring a nuanced version more adept to the modern NFL.

It's a glass-half-full idea, but I'm buying into it.

painekiller · #17 01-20-2010, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blitzwood

I highly doubt McKight gets drafted in the first round, at least I haven't seen any mocks with him in round one.

Also, Scott was injured the latter part of the season(fractured clavicle) so that probably explains his disappearing act.

I'm seeing him ranked between 85 and 100.

kRocket · #18 01-20-2010, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy P

Sorry, I didn't have a sarcastic face to go along with my statement.

While I am not 100% happy with the ZBS when it comes to short yardage situations, I don't think the departure of Alex Gibbs means we don't have to find a "Prototypical" ZBS Running Back. If we could clone Terrell Davis, that would be good.

Gosh. You got my hopes up for a few moments