The Safeties

[NBT]

The candidates:

Last year's starters
C.C. Brown (SS)
Will Demps (FS)

Contenders for SS:
Glenn Earl back from I/R, was looking good till hurt
Brandon Mitchell FA last year who spent the year on the PS

Contenders for FS:
Nick Ferguson veteran FA who is 33 (not good)
Brandon Harrison, 5th rnd pick, was on I/R, missed all of OTA's, and some of TC due to late graduation at Stanford
Rookie 6th rounder this year Dominique Barber, of the famed Barber NFL clan.

OK, I think Earl unseats CC Brown for SS.
I think Demps starts for us in game one at FS, and Brandon harrison is a backup.
Domique Barber goes to PS for a year of seasoning.
Brandon Mitchell is the odd man out.

Your thoughts?

[papabear]

I think Demps and Brown are the starters right now. Earl will depend on if he is really back from the injury. If he's not ALL the way back he could be gone...for now I'll give him a roster spot. I think Harrison is the other backup. Earl or Harrison could be a starter at some point this season.

Ferguson gets cut.

Barber to the PS....although if he manages to win a roster spot that would mean that we might have another diamond in the rough, and that is a good thing.

[kravix]

Demps is a lock to me. I dont think there is anyone back there more talented than he is right now.

Brown and Earl have the battle for number SS, but I think that Earl will ultimately win with Brown as the backup.

Between Barber and the Brandons there is too little known about them, and thier stock is about the same 5th, 6th, and UDFA. Barber will make the roster or PS almost assuredly.

[painekiller]

I see us using hybrid safeties. Strong safety types with coverage skills. Our coaches seem to go for the larger body guys.

6-3 215 Mitchell
6-2 215 Harrison
6-1 215 Earl
6-0 210 Barber
6-0 208 Demps
6-0 208 Brown

The cutting of Cox says to me that Mitchell maybe moving up the special teams chart. Cox was a very good special teamer, and cutting him means someone has to have by passed him.

I think this year Demps and Brown start, with Harrison and Earl pushing.

[Bigtinylittle]

To me, Harrison is one of the most intriguing players on the roster, mainly because hardly anyone has ever seen him play. I have noticed a number of fans saying Mitchell is better, but the draft gurus clearly had Harrison rated higher than Mitchell. The only reason I can think of for people thinking Mitchell is better is that he came from a program that is usually considered a better program. But if that is the best way to rate players, why don't we just skip the combine and draft all our players from LSU. I have no idea whether Mitchell, Barber, or Harrison is better, and I will definately wait until all three play in the preseason before I make up my mind. Hopefully, at least one of them has the makings of a solid NFL starter.

[NBT]

My purpose here was, not so much to predict who would start, as to how far we have come in so far as quality and depth are concerned. There will be a couple of guys here who get cut, or who go to the P.S., who could have started for us a couple of years ago. Seems light years ago now.

The concensus among you is that Demps and Brown will be our starters, and why not, that's how it ended up last year. However, from what they have been saying Earl is well and really lookd good in OTA's, so my money is on him.

Although we have more depth than at any time in our past, lets hope old injury bug picks on some other team this year, like the Colts, or Jags, or Tacks. you know what I mean.

[KJ3]

Originally Posted by painekiller

I see us using hybrid safeties. Strong safety types with coverage skills. Our coaches seem to go for the larger body guys.

6-3 215 Mitchell
6-2 215 Harrison
6-1 215 Earl
6-0 210 Barber
6-0 208 Demps
6-0 208 Brown

indeedly doo. i think demps has a spot to lose from his gutsy play last year. brown probably has a spot until he makes one mistake which is unfortunate for him. but i think opening day demps/brown.

[NBT]

Stanford, Harrison's school, was nobody to fool with, as U.S.C. found out. Because Harrison was so late getting into TC last year, I am really looking forward to see how far he has come.

[painekiller]

chron.com finally tells the current depth chart.

Ferguson (5-11, 201) is at a position that will have heated competition. During organized team activities, he lined up with Glenn Earl during most drills with the second team; first-year safeties Brandon Mitchell and Brandon Harrison played with the third team. C.C. Brown and Will Demps are the returning starters

And as much as I like the intangibles of a veteran safety, I hope we do not cut a player that can play so we can keep a 33 year old guy. Now if the youngster will never be a player, say bye bye.

[jppaul]

Originally Posted by painekiller

I see us using hybrid safeties. Strong safety types with coverage skills. Our coaches seem to go for the larger body guys.

I think this year Demps and Brown start, with Harrison and Earl pushing.

You know its funny, that is absolutely right. But what the fan base has been begging for for years and never had is a pure centerfielder type of FS.

[KJ3]

Originally Posted by jppaul

You know its funny, that is absolutely right. But what the fan base has been begging for for years and never had is a pure centerfielder type of FS.

the perception of that particular need probably changes if our smaller, quicker LB's can cover. LB's that cover who aren't named demeco, i know, i'm still struggling with the concept as well . i'm really looking for diles to step up and maybe adibi as well. if they can step up the coverage and take up more of the field that would give the safeties more air to breathe.

i look at the hybrid safety setup as an extension of two ideals that kind of go against what i think is more traditional defensive setup. 1 LBs who can cover 2 CBs who can support the run stoppage. we've got bigger than average CBs who aren't afraid to get physical and smaller than average LBs who are supposed to be good cover guys.

so the hybrid safeties fill in where needed, as support to run stopping or coverage. each safety equally free and strong. neat idea but i look and see one thing that may cause problems: safety size. perhaps it won't matter at all but i think the body types necessary for the "hybrid" safety is a little bigger than what our starters are. our 3rd string safeties (the brandons) fill that issue perfectly though.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by jppaul

You know its funny, that is absolutely right. But what the fan base has been begging for for years and never had is a pure centerfielder type of FS.

Well playmakers are not made they are born, IMO. And we have not had any DBs on our roster since Glenn that was a true playmaker. Until we draft for that trait, we will not have that trait. IMO.

[NBT]

Maybe not......but under father Rhoades, let's hope they can be reborn a little.

[KJ3]

Originally Posted by painekiller

Well playmakers are not made they are born, IMO. And we have not had any DBs on our roster since Glenn that was a true playmaker. Until we draft for that trait, we will not have that trait. IMO.

bennett looks to be a playmaker. or a decent corner. i can't tell which because i'm biased to seeing faggins play uh-oh-cornerback.

we draft playmakers these days, just not so much in the backfield.
demeco has that trait, owen daniels, jacoby jones, fred bennett, slaton has the gene. we get a few every draft. production aside, they have the "vince young and espn's copyrighted term for vince young" factor.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by KJ3

we draft playmakers these days, just not so much in the backfield.
demeco has that trait, owen daniels, jacoby jones, fred bennett, slaton has the gene. we get a few every draft. production aside, they have the "vince young and espn's copyrighted term for vince young" factor.

I meant draft for playmaking in the defensive backfield. And I agree that Bennett shows signs.

[KJ3]

ah, i see.

OVER/UNDER in the defensive backfield for 2008:

fred bennett interceptions: 6.5
dunta's return (games missed): 5.5
will demps' real arms: 1.5
games c.c. brown starts: 8.5
injuries: 2.5

i say:
over
over
under
under
under

[RunninRaven]

I'm confused. Are yall saying that you don't think Dunta is a playmaker, or just that you think he may not be a playmaker when he returns due to his injury?

[KJ3]

i don't think dunta is a playmaker. he's about as solid of a cover corner as you can ask for but i don't think he's the type of player that routinely changes how offenses play. what's the most interceptions he's ever had?

EDIT: it's 6. with 19 passes deflected, 3 forced fumbles, 3 sacks, 74 tackles with 14 assists. that was 2004, the only year i would've called him a playmaker. 1/4 ain't bad but it's time to do it again you know what i mean?

[RunninRaven]

Originally Posted by KJ3

i don't think dunta is a playmaker. he's about as solid of a cover corner as you can ask for but i don't think he's the type of player that routinely changes how offenses play. what's the most interceptions he's ever had?

EDIT: it's 6. with 19 passes deflected, 3 forced fumbles, 3 sacks, 74 tackles with 14 assists. that was 2004, the only year i would've called him a playmaker. 1/4 ain't bad but it's time to do it again you know what i mean?

Yeah, but look at how many times teams threw at him. I swear, watching the games, you could go for what seemed like weeks at a time without a QB throwing in Dunta's direction. Now, that is partly because of the crap that has always been manning the other CB spot opposite Dunta, but also because he is so damn good. I think a team purposefully staying away from Dunta's side of the field is a perfect example of a playmaker. They are changing how they play because of him.

I wouldn't call him an elite cornerback (yet), but I would damn sure refer to him as a playmaker. And not just for his coverage skills either. He is very instrumental in run stopping on plays where the running back bounces to the outside.

Stats won't tell you everything.

Edit: Well, I've tried desperately now to locate a "Thrown At" statistic, but it seems no one keeps them. I maintain my belief that for the amount of attempts Dunta gets at either defending a pass or making an interception, he is as big a playmaker as just about any of the top cornerbacks. He just has fewer chances.

[papabear]

Originally Posted by RunninRaven

Yeah, but look at how many times teams threw at him. I swear, watching the games, you could go for what seemed like weeks at a time without a QB throwing in Dunta's direction. Now, that is partly because of the crap that has always been manning the other CB spot opposite Dunta, but also because he is so damn good. I think a team purposefully staying away from Dunta's side of the field is a perfect example of a playmaker. They are changing how they play because of him.

I wouldn't call him an elite cornerback (yet), but I would damn sure refer to him as a playmaker. And not just for his coverage skills either. He is very instrumental in run stopping on plays where the running back bounces to the outside.

Stats won't tell you everything.

I disagree with you about how much teams really stay away from him. There have been occasions where they might have picked on someone else (I wonder who), but that had as much to do with the play of the rest of the secondary as it did with Dunta. It's just one example, but the Titans had no problem going at Dunta with the game on the line....the game where we made the huge comeback and then let it slip away after taking the lead. That was one of those cases where you just have to say that there guy made a good play. It's not like he got beat, but he didn't knock it away either.

Like I said, that's just one play. I think if you went back and looked at the tape and tracked just how many times teams threw his direction you would be surprised. I'm not saying he's not a very good corner, but teams weren't terrified to throw to his side of the field either.