Ryans and Drob Skipping Workouts

[popanot]

It doesn't surprise me DRob is boycotting, but I'm a little surprised Ryans has decided to go this route. It doesn't seem to be in his nature to do that sort of thing. I understand he's upset and don't really blame him. I probably would be too if I was in his situation. However, the Texans have been burned in the past giving a young player big money based on production and before their first contract expires, so I understand why they may be a little reluctant to re-do these contracts now. Anyone remember Domanick Davis-Williams?

That late surge to end the 2008 season served only to increase expectations for 2009 in Houston, placing coach Gary Kubiak and G.M. Rick Smith in danger of adding “former” to their titles if the Texans don’t make it to the playoffs for the first time in franchise history.

And to the extent that organized offseason weightlifting sessions have an impact on a team’s fortunes several months later, Kubiak and Smith might be feeling a little more heat given the news that cornerback Dunta Robinson and linebacker DeMeco Ryans won’t be in attendance when the offseason program launches on Monday.

“I’ve talked to both of them,” coach Gary Kubiak told John McClain of the Houston Chronicle. “I understand the issue. The offseason program is voluntary. I’d love to have them here. Their teammates would love to have them here. We’ll work through it.”

Ryans is under contract for 2009; Robinson isn’t. The five-year veteran cornerback is the team’s franchise player for 2009, but until he signs the tender he is not obligated to attend any offseason or preseason or in-season activities. Instead, Robinson remains a free agent, and as many franchise players have done in the past he can skip all of the offseason workouts, all of training camp, and all of the preseason, and then he can sign his franchise tender on the eve of the regular-season opener and earn the full amount of his $9.957 million salary.

For Ryans, who wants a new contract, any failure to participate in mandatory offseason activities or training camp could trigger a daily five-figure fine and, possibly, an attempt to recover a portion of his 2006 signing bonus.

“I’m counting on those two players to help us win,” Kubiak said. “They’ve told me I can count on them, but as far as when, we’ll see how that works out. Hopefully, it’ll be sooner [than] later.”

http://www.profootballtalk.com/category/rumor-mill/

[Nconroe]

kinda sad, all this greed. oh well. I think they should show up and be part of the team and let the team see them perform if they think they are worth more than they currently get or longer term guarantees. I think it is not the way to stay a fan favorite or a team leader which they were.

[John S]

They should show up and be part of the team. I think the Texans need to make signing Ryans and OD long term a top priority. Now that most of the pro days are over they should get this done before the draft. I would take the wait and see approach to DRob. If he produces on the field I would try to lock him up during the season.

[papabear]

I'm not surprised and I sort of expected this. My only real concern is that Demeco is there early enough to get on the same page with Bush so that he is prepared for all the changes on the defense. He's the QB for the defense and needs to be prepared. The best thing I read in the article was that Kubiak has spoken to both of them and they told the coach they could count on them.

I've got a little more patience with Demeco than Dunta right now. Dunta got a decent deal as a rookie, and turned down what was apparently a pretty good one before he was tagged. I understand the injury risk the players go through, and Dunta is very aware of that risk now...so I can see wanting to get as much as you can while you still can. He still turned down good deal though. Either way skipping some workouts is the only tool he has, so it's no surprise he's using it.

With Demeco, he's been vastly underpaid relative to other players of his caliber. I don't remember what kind of numbers the Texans threw at him, but this is his first big contract. Not saying that he's been living off Ramen noodles the last few years, but again this is the only tool he has to use so I'm not going to blame him for using it.

I just hope it doesn't hurt the team.

[Mike]

This was going to happen to us eventually. Before, we had players who sucked, now we actually have talent. Congrats, we have made it to the big leagues with unhappy players and holdouts.

I hope that Rick Smith can give these guys the attention and negotiate fair contracts for both players after the draft.

[painekiller]

Come on now, this is the business side of the game. Right now they are only doing workouts to "get into shape". And both guys are known for their hard work and all.

I was actually happy Duanta is not here, he is at a speed camp, good. He needs to be able to work on regaining the quickness he lost. This will only help.

BTW when will a team get smart and hire a speed guy to work out with it's players.

And I heard a radio interview with one of the OL guys from somewhere, and the big guys are coming up with a camp for them to get work on drills especially for them.

Lastly, this is all Negotiation 101, is wait the other guy out. And going public is the a way for the players to pressure the management.

Right now Rick Smith is doing OK, Duanta turned down a very nice deal and his leverage was taken away, now he is pissed. Oh well. Should have signed that huge deal when it was offered. What if the team drafts a younger version, bye bye leverage.

Ryan's is due, and IMO gets a big deal before the start of the season. Right now the GM is working on the draft, then it's filling out a roster, then and only then will he have time to work on these deals.

[Arky]

The Chronic had this in the morning paper:

Full article.

[Bigtinylittle]

I really don't care for negotiations drama. I always press my ignore button and wait for the final outcome. Agents lie and posture about as much as politicans do, and they instruct their clients to do the same.

By the way, I ignore politicians too. I don't think I've listened to more than a couple of political speeches in the last twenty years. And I don't think I've missed a thing.

[nunusguy]

• Right now, I think there is a better chance of Dunta Robinson playing for a team other than the Texans by 2010. While I love DRob and want him back, if he is dead set on leaving the Texans as soon as he can then Rick Smith should be shopping him before and during the draft. My best guess is that the Texans could get a 2nd rounder for Robinson.
http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootba...4/post_87.html
********************************************
So say Lance Zierlein in his "Z Report".
I always had doubts about D-Robs desire to stay here before his dust-up with
GM Smith, but now I'd also agree with LZ that the Texans ought to cut their losses and deal him for a pick if this is really what he (Robinson) has in mind.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

• My best guess is that the Texans could get a 2nd rounder for Robinson.

I'd also agree with LZ that the Texans ought to cut their losses and deal him for a pick if this is really what he (Robinson) has in mind.

Maybe we could draft Asher Allen or Keenan Lewis to develop and be done with the D-rama from D-Rob.

[dalemurphy]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

• Right now, I think there is a better chance of Dunta Robinson playing for a team other than the Texans by 2010. While I love DRob and want him back, if he is dead set on leaving the Texans as soon as he can then Rick Smith should be shopping him before and during the draft. My best guess is that the Texans could get a 2nd rounder for Robinson.
http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootba...4/post_87.html
********************************************
So say Lance Zierlein in his "Z Report".
I always had doubts about D-Robs desire to stay here before his dust-up with
GM Smith, but now I'd also agree with LZ that the Texans ought to cut their losses and deal him for a pick if this is really what he (Robinson) has in mind.

If the team takes care of its business with guys like Demeco and OD this season then Dunta won't go anywhere unless we let him... we can tag him again next year for a little less than $12 million. I know that's not ideal but it's an important tool to use, either as a bargaining chip, a means to work out a trade, or a last resort to keep a probowl caliber CB.

[nunusguy]

I blame it all on Smith. Other teams have players like D-Rob who are high-strung, egotistical, very emotional but at the same time fierce competitors who are team leaders and overachievers who set high standards for their teammates by their efforts and their desire and determination to win.
But you don't tell a guy like D-Rob one thing and then renege on your promise after you fail to negotiate the contract you wanted him to sign.
I'm thinking what D-Rob is making this year and was offered in terms of a long-term deal was more than fair compensation, but that's beside the point. Guy like D-Rob, he's high-principled and plays by his his own drummer and own standards and Smith didn't handle him right. The young GM blundered badly.

[papabear]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

I blame it all on Smith. Other teams have players like D-Rob who are high-strung, egotistical, very emotional but at the same time fierce competitors who are team leaders and overachievers who set high standards for their teammates by their efforts and their desire and determination to win.
But you don't tell a guy like D-Rob one thing and then renege on your promise after you fail to negotiate the contract you wanted him to sign.
I'm thinking what D-Rob is making this year and was offered in terms of a long-term deal was more than fair compensation, but that's beside the point. Guy like D-Rob, he's high-principled and plays by his his own drummer and own standards and Smith didn't handle him right. The young GM blundered badly.

I agree that Smith probably could have handled it better, but he had every right to change his mind. He should have let them know when they turned down the offer that he was going to have to franchise him. D-Rob turned down the offer before Smith made his blunder by changing his tune, so the way Smith handled the Franchise tag had nothing to do with the offer being refused. Even aadmitting fault n Smith's part Dunta is probably over-reacting. He could have handled the situation better as well. Gone to the Texans and say I don't want to play with the tag so let's get something done.


On another point....did anyone see what the Bucs gave Winslow:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4047667


OD's price just went up...making getting all three of these guys signed long term even harder.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by papabear

On another point....did anyone see what the Bucs gave Winslow:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4047667


OD's price just went up...making getting all three of these guys signed long term even harder.

20 M guaranteed for a TE ! Wow ! While OD certainly isn't as talented as Winslow, he's a much steadier player, much more reliable, more stable player. And he's a real fit for this system. Wonder what kind of a deal he'll get ? I fully expect him and DeMeco to get signed before this regular season begins.
But D-Rob is a much different situation. They (the Texans) have got to figure out if they can sign D-Rob, figure it out soon, and if they conclude they can't we've got to get something for him while we still can.

[kravix]

I dont see how Smith botched this. I like DRob and all, but he is not the 4th best CB in the league, and yet he turned down money that would have equaled #4 highest paid CB.

On one hand he is on the cusp of becomming a pro bowler, and the other he hasnt been able to get over that hump. Take that and the injury he is comming off of and turning down that much guaranteed over that long seems either greedy or dumb. I think the contract they offered was more than they should have. What is the GM supposed to do? If they caved and payed every player what they wanted it would be impossible to even field a team.

Demeco was supposedly offered #3-#4 money for a LB and turned it down also. This was reported by McClain on the radio the other day, which is why i said supposedly.

[Joshua]

As I recall, the reporting on the Smith/Dunta feud was fairly shoddy. While the headlines blared that Smith promised Dunta that he wouldn't franchise him and then reversed course, Smith's actual quotes did not support this. According to Smith, he told Dunta he didn't want to franchise him but that the franchise tag was never off the table. Thus, I don't think it was ever a situation where Smith changed his mind. It was a situation he hoped to avoid (having to franchise Dunta) but one he simply wasn't able to. Moreover, from a logical standpoint, why would Smith conclude (in January) that he will not use the franchise tag under any circumstances? How would this have been in the Texans' interests?

Clearly, by Dunta's reaction, Smith probably could have done a better job of making sure Dunta understood his position. However, I also don't see how Dunta (and particularly his agent) would think the Texans would simply let him walk. Dunta's quotes suggest he thought the Texans would negotiate up until the franchise tender date, and if an agreement wasn't met, would simply let him hit the market to the highest bidder with the Texans getting zero in return. Such a position gives the Texans no leverage and gives Dunta no incentive to negotiate with the Texans when he can hold out for a bidding war. The notion of that is ridiculous and I think Dunta and his agent are being somewhat disingenuous to suggest this was there honest understanding.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by Joshua

While the headlines blared that Smith promised Dunta that he wouldn't franchise him and then reversed course, Smith's actual quotes did not support this. According to Smith, he told Dunta he didn't want to franchise him but that the franchise tag was never off the table. Thus, I don't think it was ever a situation where Smith changed his mind. It was a situation he hoped to avoid (having to franchise Dunta) but one he simply wasn't able to. Moreover, from a logical standpoint, why would Smith conclude (in January) that he will not use the franchise tag under any circumstances? How would this have been in the Texans' interests?

"I asked yesterday whether Rick Smith lied to Dunta Robinson about using the franchise tag. Dunta certainly said he was deceived. Rick Smith has now addressed his alleged deceit. Sort of:

"The first thing you have to understand is a negotiation is a dynamic, thorough process," Smith said. "We had a conversation very early in the negotiation process where I indicated I didn't want to use the franchise tag on Dunta. I was clear about that because of the negative feelings around the tag.

"My approach was we were going to do everything we can do to get a deal done because we don't want to use it. But things change in a negotiation. That was our initial position for him with respect to value in a contract. And we changed on that. We offered him a deal that exceeded that.

"This whole time, up until yesterday at 4 (EDT), the franchise tag is always in play. And so when they elected to exercise their right in declining our offer to make him one of the highest-paid corners in football, we exercised out (sic) option to tag him. It's part of the deal."

I've read that excerpt at least six (6) times, and I still don't know whether I can definitively say that Rick Smith lied to Dunta. Saying "we'll do everything we can to get a deal done because we don't want to use it" isn't exactly "we're not going to slap you with the franchise tag." In that respect, I guess Smith didn't lie. Then again, reading Smith's account, I can certainly see how Dunta would feel misled. Indeed, Smith admits the team "changed" positions, which can be interpreted as a tacit admission of misrepresentation, I suppose.
Oddly enough, this additional perspective doesn't really provide a definitive answer. I'm now more sympathetic to Dunta, but Smith's account does not make me think that the Texans were somehow out of line in franchising Dunta Robinson. Where do you come down on the issue?
http://www.battleredblog.com/2009/2/...begins-to-spin
***********************************
But as the writer here says, its still not an absolutely definitive explanation.
But I can't help but think that D-Rob wouldn't be so P'OD if he didn't feel like
he was getting the green-weeny ?
I dunno, you tell me ?

[papabear]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

But as the writer here says, its still not an absolutely definitive explanation.
But I can't help but think that D-Rob wouldn't be so P'OD if he didn't feel like
he was getting the green-weeny ?
I dunno, you tell me ?

This is pure speculation, but I blame the agent. My gut feeling is that the agent took whatever Smith told him and spun it, if necessary, as I've gotten them to agree to not use the franchise tag so if we don't like the offer we can hit free agency and really get paid. When that didn't happen the agent blames Smith. Again, total speculation, but if I'm a GM that's why I would make sure that I have some direct communication with a player. Even with the best intentions things can get twisted when it's second hand.

I'm probably just trying to convince myself that a player I like and have pulled for isn't being a total D-Bag and doing all this because he wants to leave. I do think that this scenario, or one like it is at least plausible.

My other new fear, besides O.D.'s price tag after the Winslow contract, is that Ryans has fired his agent...I'm worried that he wants huge money and when his agent told him he probably couldn't get that much he fired him... and now he's going to sign with someone who promised to show him the money, like Rosenhaus. that's my nightmare at least.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by papabear

This is pure speculation, but I blame the agent. My gut feeling is that the agent took whatever Smith told him and spun it, if necessary, as I've gotten them to agree to not use the franchise tag so if we don't like the offer we can hit free agency and really get paid. When that didn't happen the agent blames Smith. Again, total speculation, but if I'm a GM that's why I would make sure that I have some direct communication with a player. Even with the best intentions things can get twisted when it's second hand.

I'm probably just trying to convince myself that a player I like and have pulled for isn't being a total D-Bag and doing all this because he wants to leave. I do think that this scenario, or one like it is at least plausible.

First, I agree that we're all guessing here but I think your scenario makes the most sense. Ever since this story first broke, I've tried to come up with a single reason why Smith would make such a promise and give away his leverage. Since I can't come up with a single one, other than Smith being an idiot (which I don't think he is), I just don't believe he would give them this promise. However, I can see an agent using something like this to persuade his player to hold out for bigger bucks. Although Dunta has to be smart enough to recognize this. I find it ironic that Dunta and his agent purportedly believe that Dunta should get paid like a top flight corner but, at the same time, are shocked that his team wouldn't just let him walk. You can't have it both ways. If you think you're that good, you should expect your team to try and keep you.

[Keith]

Speaking of blaming agents, according to McClain's blog, DeMeco has fired his.

FYI: DeMeco Ryans has fired his agent, Kirk Wood. He's in the process of hiring another agent. I don't know what that'll mean in his attempt to get an extension. He turned down the Texans' last offer in February, and it's been a dead issue since. Stay tuned.

And yeah, if I was Dunta, I would seriously consider firing the agent there, too. If we believe McClain (something his co-worker is having a hard time doing fwiw), Dunta had an offer on the table for $23 million guaranteed. How much more did Chayut think he was going to get for his client (and therefore himself)? Boo. Now his agent has left Dunta in a very risky position.