What would you give for Peppers?

[cland]

Please excuse the speculative nature of this thread...but it's a long off-season.

ESPN has reported that Julius Peppers wants out of Carolina. Here's the question, what would you trade to bring him onto the roster? Carolina still has the option to franchise him, but a one-year 17 million dollar contract for someone who has expressed that they don't want to continue playing for your team, definitely opens up the negotiation door.

So now the question is...what would you give up for him? Keep in mind that he'll still get one of the largest contracts ever given to a defensive player.


1st round pick? 1st and 3rd? Dunta Robinson?

[bckey]

Let me make it even more interesting by linking you to the diehardchris article on the same subject. Here is an excerpt:

“Of course, the Panthers would have the option to accept or decline any trade offer Carey brings to the table, and it’s unlikely if this were to come to fruition that he’d go anywhere in the NFC South. Peppers seems to like the Houston area, so the Texans are certainly an option. Imagine Peppers playing opposite former North Carolina State star Mario Williams?”

http://www.houstondiehards.com/?p=2959

[TexanJedi]

I would give up the 15th pick but balk at anything much more. I wonder if the Texans would do that since Bush wants to blitz more. Having a strong pass rush with the front four -Mario, Peppers, Robinson, Okoye - we would be better served playing a Tennessee style defense rather than the coming presumed Arizona style. Since Denver is supposedly switching to a 3-4 defense, I might rather trade a 3rd or 4th for Elvis Dumervil were he available.

[TexanJedi]

According to Adam Shefter, Carolina has somewhere around $10 million in cap space but the franchise number for a defensive end is $17 million. Can they afford to franchise him with making major cuts, and John Fox already said Delhomme would be back as their starting QB.

[sinnister]

From what I read, Peppers wants to play in a 3-4. He thinks he can excel in that defense.

[HPF Bob]

Originally Posted by TexanJedi

John Fox already said Delhomme would be back as their starting QB.

That's too bad. I would have offered them Matt Schaub straight up for Peppers.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by TexanJedi

I would give up the 15th pick but balk at anything much more. I wonder if the Texans would do that since Bush wants to blitz more. Having a strong pass rush with the front four -Mario, Peppers, Robinson, Okoye - we would be better served playing a Tennessee style defense rather than the coming presumed Arizona style. Since Denver is supposedly switching to a 3-4 defense, I might rather trade a 3rd or 4th for Elvis Dumervil were he available.

Why would you trade for a guy who is about to be a free agent? (Peppers)Why would you give the 15th pick for Peppers who is going to command a ton of money, then you have to re-sign Mario to even more money when his deal is up. You cannot tie up two mega ends to huge contracts.

Use the 15th pick on your own DE and slot him with that money.

[nero THE zero]

I wouldn't give up any picks for him. If he were to hit free agency I would offer him a contract, but that would be contingent on our ability to afford it after re-signing Dunta. In other words, I probably wouldn't bother with him.

[cland]

Hmm I'm surprised on some of the glass-half-empties out there. I realize that the odds of this signing occurring are low...but the benefit of adding Peppers to this roster is undeniably huge.

Need at the position? Huge check mark.
Injury Concern? Nope.
Proven pro-bowler? Check, 4 times.
Young enough? Slightly after prime, but a 5 year contract gets us. 29, 30, 31, 32, 33.
Cap space? Yep...even after some re-signings.

Consider the impact that Peppers can have on how our DL is able to line up and react to opposing offenses. Mario and Peppers can swap sides of the line at will throughout the game. Play a team with a weak side of the line and the DL can line up as: Peppers Mario Okoye Cochran/Bulman or vice versa. This line-up can be shifted to after the offensive play has been called.

In terms of DL investment, it's a little bit of a misnomer to say that we've already invested there. Results get paid for, the fact that we've had a few flops on the line doesn't mean we can just stop trying to fix it.

[TexanJedi]

Originally Posted by Mike

Why would you trade for a guy who is about to be a free agent? (Peppers)Why would you give the 15th pick for Peppers who is going to command a ton of money, then you have to re-sign Mario to even more money when his deal is up. You cannot tie up two mega ends to huge contracts.

Use the 15th pick on your own DE and slot him with that money.

I was presuming that Carolina would franchise him in which case they would trade him. I was also presuming that the Texans would have considered and could absorb the cap ramifications of Peppers signing a new deal, it's possible they can't and in that case a trade would not happen. If you can guarantee me that there will be a DE in the draft that can produce in the neighborhood of Peppers (it's too much to expect any rookie to assume all-Pro status) then yes it would be a better allocation of recources.

Don't you just love the offseason?

[nero THE zero]

Originally Posted by cland

Cap space? Yep...even after some re-signings.

Don't be so certain. We have some cap room, but do we have enough room after re-signing Dunta, DeMeco, Daniels, Walter, any of our other desired RFA/UFA, role players (RB depth, LB depth, secondary depth,) the rookie pool, and some pocket change for '09 season signings to sign the "highest paid defensive player in the league"?

If so, and we don't have to give up draft picks, sign me up. But, I don't think that's the case.

[mussop]

Originally Posted by sinnister

From what I read, Peppers wants to play in a 3-4. He thinks he can excel in that defense.

I think you have that backwards.

[nero THE zero]

Originally Posted by mussop

I think you have that backwards.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=090...s&confirm=true

Carey said Peppers wants to play in a 3-4 defense. The Panthers use a 4-3 alignment.

"He certainly feels that he can excel and thrive in a 3-4 defense," Carey said. "He is also open to just another system in general that will allow him to maximize his athletic abilities."

It's like people that think Mario is an ill fit for the 3-4 when it is to the contrary. Players like Peppers and Mario are ideal fits for the 3-4 DE; they're big, athletic ends who can play the run, tie up blockers, and rush the passer. They might not put up the sexy numbers they would in the 4-3, but it would be the best utilization of their skills.

[Nconroe]

It sounds like a payroll buster, but if you really thought this was your last, final piece to make playoffs-run to SB, one might try it. I personally wouldn't do it since figure JP only has a couple good years left, so maybe I'd offer that , if he's a FA, no trades or draft picks lost. Likely draft a DE and LB who can rush.

[mussop]

Originally Posted by nero THE zero

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=090...s&confirm=true


It's like people that think Mario is an ill fit for the 3-4 when it is to the contrary. Players like Peppers and Mario are ideal fits for the 3-4 DE; they're big, athletic ends who can play the run, tie up blockers, and rush the passer. They might not put up the sexy numbers they would in the 4-3, but it would be the best utilization of their skills.

I seen that and was surprised.

[Fonz the Boss]

This should not even be mentioned. Peppers will not land here in Houston. If he does then I'll be extremely disappointed because we will likely lose draft picks or pay him a ridiculous contract. That will set the franchise back in salary cap finances as well as building through draft picks in the future.

[papabear]

I would love to see Peppers here. Him and Mario teamed up would be ridiculous. He's already turned down a contract that would make him the highest payed defensive player in the league. It would be fun, but what's going to happen in a couple of years when Mario needs a new deal? I don't want to lose any picks, but for a guy like Peppers who is still relatively young I could stand to lose a pick or two, depending on the package of course. I just worry about it from a salary cap standpoint. I'm sure we could make it work, but it could hurt us in being able to hold on to our young talent when they need a new contract.

He also seems to think he needs to go to a new system to reach his full potential. Apparently he's intrigued by the idea of playing in a 3-4 system.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by nero THE zero

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=090...s&confirm=true


It's like people that think Mario is an ill fit for the 3-4 when it is to the contrary. Players like Peppers and Mario are ideal fits for the 3-4 DE; they're big, athletic ends who can play the run, tie up blockers, and rush the passer. They might not put up the sexy numbers they would in the 4-3, but it would be the best utilization of their skills.

It's always been my understanding that the star pass rushers, the edge-rushers supreme in the 3-4 are the OLBs and the DEs in that scheme
function more to tie up interferance ? Fact is I can't think of a single 3-4 in the NFL where the DEs lead their team in sacks ?
There's no doubt that Mario & Peppers would be outstanding 3-4 DEs because of their impressive size and strength, but casting them in a supporting role would be a waste of resources & talent considering they were the #1 & #2 overall picks, respectively, in their Drafts.

[papabear]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

It's always been my understanding that the star pass rushers, the edge-rushers supreme in the 3-4 are the OLBs and the DEs in that scheme
function more to tie up interferance ? Fact is I can't think of a single 3-4 in the NFL where the DEs lead their team in sacks ?
There's no doubt that Mario & Peppers would be outstanding 3-4 DEs because of their impressive size and strength, but casting them in a supporting role would be a waste of resources & talent considering they were the #1 & #2 overall picks, respectively, in their Drafts.

I agree. I think they would both be very good in a 3-4 DE role....with the nod going to Mario in that role. I think it would be a mistake for us to put Mario as a 3-4 end because we would be taking one of the few playmakers we have and putting in a role that design, doesn't have many opportunities to make plays.

Peppers want to play OLB in a 3-4...and some people who thought we could make the change to a 3-4 here wanted Mario in that same role. I'm sure they could be devastating in the role from a pass rush perspective. I don't think I want Mario to have to drop into coverage, and I'm not sure it is wise for a player like Peppers to want to make that big of a change this late in his career. Not much would change from a pass rushing perspective, but everything else would be brand new.

[Bigtinylittle]

I suspect that Peppers saying he would like to go to a 3/4 team is more about increasing his price than anything else. If he said he wanted to stay in a 4/3 system he would automatically eliminate a lot of bidders. I rarely pay attention to what players say when they are angling for a new contract with lots of guaranteed money. I think their natural inclination is to mislead. In fact I have often wondered whether Ahman Green knew he was more seriously injured when he came to the Texans than he was letting on. I suspect he may have pulled a fast one.

In general, I would not be interested in signing a 29 year old superstar to a 4 or 5 year contract with a huge amount of guaranteed money. Especially if you have to give up something to get him. I think the odds are against getting full value when you sign a superstar that old. You are probably going to eventually have to eat a lot of dead money. If you could just cut a guy after three years with no penalty, it would be a much more attractive thing. But as we all know, the NFL doesn't work that way.