Defensive coordinator

[NBT]

Anybody think Mike Singletary might be on the chopping block out there in SF? If so do you think he might be receptive to come back to his hometown as our new defensive coordinator?

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by NBT

Anybody think Mike Singletary might be on the chopping block out there in SF? If so do you think he might be receptive to come back to his hometown as our new defensive coordinator?

I called for us to go after him a few years ago then he got the top job in San Fran.

I think Singletary, John Fox and Marvin Lewis are the top guys on the list for next seasons defensive coordinator. Any one of which would be a nice addition as a DC.

BTW those are all 4-3 guys, well Singletary has run both a 4-3 and a 3-4 in his coaching career.

Of the 3-4 guys only Wade Phillips is really interesting to me.

[HPF Bob]

With the looming lockout, this is all conjecture. Plus, it remains to be seen whether a 5-11 or 6-10 season costs Kubiak his job and then those names become head coaching candidates, not DC candidates. I think the next head coach must DEFINITELY be a defensive coach to fix our troubled defense.

[barrett]

Singletary is a Defensive coach whose team is in the bottom half of the league defensively (22nd in yards, 18th in scoring). And that is while playing the terrible offenses in the NFC west twice each (STL #25, SEA #27, ARI #31).

If that is the performance he got when he set the personality of the whole team and had some personnell say, then I'm not very excited about him as a DC.

Likewise, Marvin Lewis has had a half a decade to put his hands on that team and they are giving up 26.5 ppg, just ahead of the Houston Texans. Carolina is at 26 ppg allowed.

[Keith]

Some guys are just cut out to be defensive coordinators instead of head coaches with defensive coordinator resumes. #DomCapers

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by Keith

Some guys are just cut out to be defensive coordinators instead of head coaches with defensive coordinator resumes. #DomCapers

Dom and Wade Phillips track records are they suck as head coaches and thier defenses sucked when they where head coaches, but look a their defenses when they where the guys running just the defense.

Heck look at what Gregg Williams did as a HC and then as a DC.

[barrett]

I just don't like a guy who was fired because his defense was terrible.

Phillips took over DC play calling last year and his defense was great. He had obvious issues with discipline and the role of head coach, but even in failure it was clear he could scheme a defense.

Capers always put a decent defensive product on the field here (and sometimes a really good one). His lack of offensive understanding got him fired.

Also, both guys had a long history of success as DCs. My point was that Singletary has never really shown that as a DC and showed nothing defensively as a HC.

Lewis obviously was successful as a DC, and Fox has done it as a head coach, but Singletary has no real coaching success at the coordinator level or the HC level.

[nunusguy]

Even now with a likely retention of Kubiak, at the same time it seems even more likely that Frank Bush is surely out, which brings in the issue of replacing him with a 4-3 guy or 3-4 guy ?
Along those lines, I was listening to local 610 radio yesterday as ND Kulu was talking about that subject and Marios potential role in a 3-4 D if that should
be what our Texans are operating out of next year. He says Mario would not be suitable as an OLB (totally agree wiith that), but also says he wouldn't be suited as a 3-4 DE basically because he would be underutilized (or words to that effect), and said moving him would be the best option if we could get a good deal for him ?
OK now see, I've heard many say that Marios "natural posion" is as a 3-4 DE ? He's practically the prototype guy in that scheme at that position ? And
with the increasing popularity of the 3-4 and demand for guys who can play that scheme, the price of lineman (and not just the nose tackle) is going up. For example the Chiefs in just the last couple years used their #3 overall on an LSU Dlineman to play for them in their 3-4.

[HPF Bob]

On the surface, Mario would seem like a perfect 3-4 end because of both his size and his quickness but the position wastes his true talents. The d-lineman in the 3-4 are primarily lane cloggers who free up the LBs to make the plays. The good ones still make some plays on their own but their chief job is to tie up traffic so others can get the glory.

Mario puts such pressure on the pass rush that he'll draw an automatic double team on every play, which will be a guard and a tackle in the 3-4, instead of a tackle and a TE/RB in a 4-3 or sometimes just single blocking by the tackle. Mario also has a problem of wearing down as the season goes on, which I feel would only be worse if he had to play on a 3-4.

He's also not a good candidate for an OLB in the 3-4 because he lacks the true speed to be effective trailing a back in pass coverage or pursuing the play and would only be useful as a pass rusher.

As for trading him...ouch. We'd need at least a pair of #1s in return and I just don't know who we'd draft that would make up for losing him. In my opinion, we are better off making him a major piece of a 4-3 defense instead of trading him or converting to a 3-4.

[barrett]

If kubiak is back, I would be shocked if we go with a DC that runs primarily a 3-4.

Kubiak returning would show that McNair (mistakenly) thinks we are so close we don't need drastic change. The DC move would be more of a fan appeasement in this case in my opinion. It would be a guy brought in under Kubiak to try to get better results from the existing framework. I would guess that players and system would not be significantly changed in this scenario.

As to the 3-4 in general, it would underutilize a healthy Mario and the things he does well if he lined up there exclusively. I also think he is ill suited to standing up as a rush LB. But most teams don't run the 3-4 exclusively. The patriots usually have 4 down lineman in passing downs. Or they slide their 3 DL into a 4-3 alignment and stand the LB up where the other DE would be. So Mario as a 3-4 DE on running downs, and sliding out to 4-3 DE width on passing downs works just fine.

It comes down to a coach who puts players in positions where they are most likely to succeed, rather than a coach trying to force players into his idea of proper football scheme.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

On the surface, Mario would seem like a perfect 3-4 end because of both his size and his quickness but the position wastes his true talents.

That was what former NFL DE Kulu said, but my point is if teams are now expending top 3 picks (Chiefs as an example) on 3-4 DLineman, perhaps Mario
is just as valuable in a role that does not necessarily feature his skills as a pass-rusher ?

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

As for trading him...ouch. We'd need at least a pair of #1s in return and I just don't know who we'd draft that would make up for losing him. In my opinion, we are better off making him a major piece of a 4-3 defense instead of trading him or converting to a 3-4.

Sorry, but I think Mario is overrated as an edge-rusher: he's not and never will have the impact of a Freeny or a Ware IMO. Don't get me wrong, he's a valuable player and definitely our best dlineman but a top 10, certainly a top 5pick would be fair-value for him.

[painekiller]

Singletary was fired tonight by the 49ers, he should be on the list of guys interviewed for the DC job.

But after today's loss, we maybe looking for a head coach and an all new staff.

[WMH]

Originally Posted by painekiller

But after today's loss, we maybe looking for a head coach and an all new staff.

FINGERS CROSSED....

This is ridiculous!

[barrett]

Originally Posted by painekiller

Singletary was fired tonight by the 49ers, he should be on the list of guys interviewed for the DC job.

But after today's loss, we maybe looking for a head coach and an all new staff.

Singletary's defense struggled in his time as a Head coach and he was never a DC prior to that. He was a good LB coach and motivator but has never shown any X and O ability as an NFL coach.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by barrett

Singletary's defense struggled in his time as a Head coach and he was never a DC prior to that. He was a good LB coach and motivator but has never shown any X and O ability as an NFL coach.

He is not my top choice, but he is on the list.

[barrett]

I just think it is telling that he has never been a DC before. He is a great position coach/motivator from all accounts. But the problem I heard about in his time in SF was the inability to gameplan. He has just never shown any X and O knowledge which is almost 100% of being a DC. If we were to hire him as a DC, what qualifications would we be hiring him based on?

My guess is that he lands as a college head coach where his overall football tough guy mindset helps him to be a skillful recruiter and motivator, while the scheme side of things is not as sharp as the NFL.

[edo783]

The dud is certifiably nuts IMO, so no for any sort of coaching job.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by painekiller

Singletary was fired tonight by the 49ers, he should be on the list of guys interviewed for the DC job.

I saw Singletary in person once, he was right in front of me going thru the metal detector at a small airport (Springfield, Mo). The guys appearance really surprised me. He was very dapperly dressed, sporting a pandora hat and a dark-colored suit & top coat. I'm under 6 feet, and he was actually shorter than me, and he's not broad or thick in appearance either. He just politley smiled at the security guard, me, others in the area and was just very pleasant. From watching him back in his NFL days with the Bears and seeing him coach in recent years, talk about your Jekylls and Hydes.

[NBT]

There is no such thing as Co-Head coaches is there? Too bad in our case. Kubiak is a good OC, sucks as a HC. Singletary, Phillips, et al., are excellent DC's, suck as head coach. Now if we could just combine the two, but Naaahhh, that would never happen.

[WMH]

Mangini is now available for DC........