Official Texans @ Titans Game Thread, 12/19/2010

[HPF Bob]

Congratulations, Texans! You've improved your draft position for next year. Losing to Tebow and the Broncos will be tough but if you show the same pluck next week that you showed this week, you can pull off the upset.

[Fonz the Boss]

I wonder what it feels like to be Frank Bush. He's got to show up for 2 more weeks knowing that he will get the boot after the season. Whatever it is that he's feeling, he deserves it. At this point I don't even care if they start the defense from scratch again by trading key defensive players like Mario, Ryans, Smith, and Cushing. I know that probably wont happen but it wouldnt piss me off if they did it to acquire the personnel needed to make a switch to a 3-4 scheme.

[chuck]

Originally Posted by Fonz the Boss

I wonder what it feels like to be Frank Bush. He's got to show up for 2 more weeks knowing that he will get the boot after the season. Whatever it is that he's feeling, he deserves it. At this point I don't even care if they start the defense from scratch again by trading key defensive players like Mario, Ryans, Smith, and Cushing. I know that probably wont happen but it wouldnt piss me off if they did it to acquire the personnel needed to make a switch to a 3-4 scheme.

Why does Frank Bush deserve to be fired more than anyone else? He's playing with the players his idiot GM and idiot HC gave him. He has the worst collection of talent in the secondary I have ever seen. He has very, very little talent to work with. What do you want him to do?

[cadams]

they all need to be fired. anyone who even tries to defend kubiak has zero credibility

[Fonz the Boss]

Originally Posted by chuck

Why does Frank Bush deserve to be fired more than anyone else? He's playing with the players his idiot GM and idiot HC gave him. He has the worst collection of talent in the secondary I have ever seen. He has very, very little talent to work with. What do you want him to do?

Because it seems as if his game plan never changes from a week to week basis. Theres no X's and O's approach to the way he calls his defensive plays. Everybody knows that when you play the Eagles you want to blitz Vick's left so he can roll out to the right. If you have the worst secondary in the league then being blitz happy is your best option. At times we may get beat in man to man coverage but applying the pressure gives the DBs a better chance to make plays. We've only seen the blitz packages in the past couple of weeks because at his point he already knows his arse is on the line. He's in panic mode and that's why he's taking the risks. If he would have been aggressive from the start it would have masked our terrible secondary.

[Fonz the Boss]

Also, Im not defending Kubiak because I know that he didnt do anything to correct the problem. The only thing is that I liked the way our offense played for most of this season. Schaub, Johnson, and Foster are all top 5 in overall stats for their position. Another offensive system will make our offense take a few steps back and that wouldn't be good. The only reason some teams have the luxury to go to the playoffs with mediocre offense is because of their defense. I know one thing for fact... we wont have a Jets type of defense next year so theres no need to mess with the offense's progression.

[chuck]

Originally Posted by Fonz the Boss

Also, Im not defending Kubiak because I know that he didnt do anything to correct the problem. The only thing is that I liked the way our offense played for most of this season. Schaub, Johnson, and Foster are all top 5 in overall stats for their position. Another offensive system will make our offense take a few steps back and that wouldn't be good. The only reason some teams have the luxury to go to the playoffs with mediocre offense is because of their defense. I know one thing for fact... we wont have a Jets type of defense next year so theres no need to mess with the offense's progression.

The offense has several very good and even great skill players. But they do not score enough points to win and this season they have averaged something pathetic like less than three points in the first quarter. I would be perfectly happy to install a totally different offense under a competent head coach.

[Joshua]

I agree with Chuck. The offense is pretty good but it's not like we're talking about the 2000 Rams. There is nothing about this offense so great that it should warrant giving Kubiak another chance. Besides, aren't we all here every Sunday and Monday complaining about the offensive playcalling? If it's so great, why do I remember bitching about it so much?

[barrett]

I don't think we should touch the offense. I think a defensive head coach and a coordinator with roots in the same system is the way to go.

BUT...if a new head coach wants to go with a new system I am pretty sure any system work well if you have the players for it. I am actually not aware of a system that would not work with Schaub, AJ, Foster, KW, our OL, and the rest. So as long as the new coach isn't intent on McDanielsing our best players, then I don't see how we are guaranteed some huge step back.

I also can't understand how you want to give Kubiak credit for the offense but no blame for the Defense. He is the head coach. They are both to his blame and his credit. But if you are more comfortable making Frank Bush into a boogie man than go ahead. But I have to ask you, if our Coordinator is the problem, what chance of hiring a better coordinator does Kubiak have since he has already screwed that up twice?

[HPF Bob]

Originally Posted by barrett

So as long as the new coach isn't intent on McDanielsing our best players,

A verb! I like it.

Really, the Texans can get rid of anybody but Foster or AJ and I can accept it. Even Schaub. How often do we overlook his ****************-ups because there are worse players on the team?

[Joshua]

Just looked at some offensive team stats on NFL.com. The Texans average 23.8 points per game. That's a whopping 1 more point than the Jaguars, 0.8 points more than the Titans, and 0.4 less than the Raiders. I doubt anyone would say you can't fire Jack Del Rio or Tom Cable because their offense is too prolific to let walk out the door. Plus, the Texans offense has been dreadful in the 1st half of virtually every game. I couldn't find the stat but I heard somewhere that we average less points in the 1st half than the Browns. While I have no stat to prove it, in an odd way, I think our offensive stats actually benefit from our crappy defense because these games get out of hand so early, the other team lets up some, even if subconsciously and then the offense pours it on. Not sure the offense would be as good if the defense actually kept it close and the other team kept up their intensity.

I don't say this to belittle the offense. They are 10th in scoring which is pretty good. The reason I'm noting it is because I do think people tend to overestimate this offense (probably be because the defense is so bad, any above average production somewhere else looks incredible).

[Fonz the Boss]

Originally Posted by chuck

The offense has several very good and even great skill players. But they do not score enough points to win and this season they have averaged something pathetic like less than three points in the first quarter. I would be perfectly happy to install a totally different offense under a competent head coach.

I know what youre saying about the first half points but part of that is because of the defense as well. We have been at a point where we cant afford 3 and outs on offense in the first half of games mainly because the opponents just chew up clock on our defense who cant stop anybody. I dont know if there's a stat for number of offensive possessions per half because if there was such a stat then im pretty sure we would be near the bottom. We need turnovers in order for our offense to have more opportunities for scores.

[chuck]

Originally Posted by barrett

I don't think we should touch the offense. I think a defensive head coach and a coordinator with roots in the same system is the way to go.

BUT...if a new head coach wants to go with a new system I am pretty sure any system work well if you have the players for it.

I'm pretty much right there with you on this. I would not mind doing fewer roll-outs and becoming more vertical, but we can keep what we have or re-tool it a little, pretty much any HC who is not a moron would be a step up.

Originally Posted by Fonz the Boss

I know what youre saying about the first half points but part of that is because of the defense as well. We have been at a point where we cant afford 3 and outs on offense in the first half of games mainly because the opponents just chew up clock on our defense who cant stop anybody. I dont know if there's a stat for number of offensive possessions per half because if there was such a stat then im pretty sure we would be near the bottom. We need turnovers in order for our offense to have more opportunities for scores.

You're right that the offense would be more effective if the defense could get a turnover every now and then, and when the Texans lose they almost always lose the TOP battle. That was particularly evident earlier in the year. My problem is the offense tends to click when they go uptempo which they do once they get behind by three scores. In today's case they were behind by three scores in the first quarter. They went uptempo in the second half and started moving the ball. For this offense to suck as badly as it does in each and every first quarter of the season (with the exception I think of the first Titans game), to me that speaks to the inability of the coaches to game plan properly or to be flexible once you see that the defense is addressing your plan. Bob is right that sometimes Schaub has series where he is very, very inconsistent - bouncing balls to guys, overthrowing other guys, not sensing pressure... But the team's inability to do anything in the first quarter or really even the first half is down to the game plan. I don't know whether it is stubbornness or stupidity or lack of creativity or what, but the numbers are there and they do not lie.

[Blitzwood]

Yea, scoring 3 points against a Titans defense in a half isn't cause for concern....a 5-7 defense. But then again we're 30th in the league in first half points so what difference does it make. Who cares if we have the #1 RB & WR in the game.

Let's just get a top notch draft pick and see what happens next year.....

[barrett]

Originally Posted by chuck

I'm pretty much right there with you on this. I would not mind doing fewer roll-outs and becoming more vertical, but we can keep what we have or re-tool it a little, pretty much any HC who is not a moron would be a step up.



You're right that the offense would be more effective if the defense could get a turnover every now and then, and when the Texans lose they almost always lose the TOP battle. That was particularly evident earlier in the year. My problem is the offense tends to click when they go uptempo which they do once they get behind by three scores. In today's case they were behind by three scores in the first quarter. They went uptempo in the second half and started moving the ball. For this offense to suck as badly as it does in each and every first quarter of the season (with the exception I think of the first Titans game), to me that speaks to the inability of the coaches to game plan properly or to be flexible once you see that the defense is addressing your plan. Bob is right that sometimes Schaub has series where he is very, very inconsistent - bouncing balls to guys, overthrowing other guys, not sensing pressure... But the team's inability to do anything in the first quarter or really even the first half is down to the game plan. I don't know whether it is stubbornness or stupidity or lack of creativity or what, but the numbers are there and they do not lie.

We are at our best when we throw the ball. This has been true for years. Foster is great, but we still should be a team that throws aggressively and looks to put points on the board at all times.

I've been complaining for years though that we are jeckyl and hyde in terms on personality.

We are best when we pass but prefer to run.

We are best in a shootout, but have a defense that can't cause turnovers or pressure the QB consistently (what defenses focus on when they know their Offense will put up points).

We have a coach who wants to run the ball and play it close but a terrible defense.

We are best with 3 or 4 WR, but we stockpile TEs and then force them onto the field in 2 TE sets where we become less threatening.

We have a "great" offense but come out looking to plod and pound every week.

We play JJ in the slot and work him almost exclusively over the middle, even though he can't catch. I can't remember a deep ball to him all season though. And then we try to work David Anderson exclusively on the sideline.

We try to make Joel Dreesen a playmaking threat and bury James Casey on the bench.

We had only OLBs for backups and then drafted another OLB and had no backup MLB.

We are ultra conservative in 4th down calls and such, but we are crappy in the kicking game and the return game and are ill-suited to trade field position with teams. I can't count how many times we have punted on a 4th and medium from the positive side of the field only to net 20 yards.

Our only win in the last 8 GAMES was courtesy of Rusty Smith.

Can anyone honestly say they have any clue what our team's primary goal is at the start of each week? On either side of the ball? I bet we would get 20 different answers from 20 different people.

Is it any wonder we perform our best when there is only one thing we can do? We are good when trailing late in games because everyone is on the same page about what we are trying to accomplish. Of course, as soon as we come back we are wandering in the desert again.

This is a football team with no direction and no sense of what they are trying to accomplish. No way does this fall at Frank Bush's feet.

[HPF Bob]

Personally, I thought we wasted Foster most of the season except in Week 1 and the week in Oakland. We'd run Foster on first down and maybe on second and, even when it worked, we couldn't wait to start throwing the ball around even on days that Schaub sucked when we should have been giving the rock to Foster and Ward until the other team figured out how to stop it and *then* after they had cheated up to stop it, burned then with play action. Instead, we'd let Foster run on the obvious first down and might even do it two plays in a row but, after he'd get a first down or two, they'd go away from it and then be forced to punt.

Running the ball is easier than passing the ball. If you establish that you can run, good coaches will force you to stop it. Only against Indy did we keep running it down their throats. A smart coach knows that you tire a defense by keeping it on the field all day so they have nothing left by the 4th quarter and, with all these defenses being built to stop the pass, a strong running game is the best weapon to wear the opposition down and keep your own defense from being exposed for the chumps that they are.

[chuck]

OK, barrett gets an A+ for his effort and Bob gets an A-. It would be a straight A for Bob but I told everyone that it was a two-page paper. True, Bob handed in two pages but he'd adjusted it to an absurdly large font size.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

Personally, I thought we wasted Foster most of the season except in Week 1 and the week in Oakland. We'd run Foster on first down and maybe on second and, even when it worked, we couldn't wait to start throwing the ball around even on days that Schaub sucked when we should have been giving the rock to Foster and Ward until the other team figured out how to stop it and *then* after they had cheated up to stop it, burned then with play action. Instead, we'd let Foster run on the obvious first down and might even do it two plays in a row but, after he'd get a first down or two, they'd go away from it and then be forced to punt.

Running the ball is easier than passing the ball. If you establish that you can run, good coaches will force you to stop it. Only against Indy did we keep running it down their throats. A smart coach knows that you tire a defense by keeping it on the field all day so they have nothing left by the 4th quarter and, with all these defenses being built to stop the pass, a strong running game is the best weapon to wear the opposition down and keep your own defense from being exposed for the chumps that they are.

Fair enough Bob, but my point was that we never had any idea what we wanted to do. Kubiak himself could not tell you what our first objective was going into a game. There was nothing this team was trying to accomplish.

Did we want to establish the run? Did we want to be a passing team? Were we looking to score and win with offense? Did we want to control the clock to protect the defense?

None of that ever came clearly through. No gameplan ever demonstrated that even our coaches had any idea of what we are.

[HPF Bob]

I'll agree to that, except in Week 1 there seemed to be no real plan. That said, it's not the coach's job to *advertise* to the fans what the game plan is. You're supposed to keep the defense guessing however when you fall behind as early and often as we did, you need no degrees to figure out the strategy was to throw the ball to catch up. It worked against KC and almost worked in a few other games but this offense is more talented than to fall behind to everyone. They just couldn't stop shooting themselves in the foot, whether it be from dropped passes, dumb penalties, untimely turnovers or plain old bad luck.

[chuck]

Originally Posted by barrett

Fair enough Bob, but my point was that we never had any idea what we wanted to do. Kubiak himself could not tell you what our first objective was going into a game. There was nothing this team was trying to accomplish.

Kubiak has said repeatedly that he wants to have a balanced offense. He wants to run as much as they throw. Of course it never works like that because they come out throwing and often go three and out. They run the ball largely the next couple of series. Unfortunately in this time the defense has invariably given up a couple of touchdowns so they have to start throwing the ball around and the final numbers are usually very lopsided in favor of the passing game.

Other than that I have no idea what they are trying to do.