What Should Be Done with Dunta Robinson in the Offseason? [F-Tagged on 2/19!]

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by Keith

I usually despise bumping up an old thread, but it probably makes sense to revisit this conversation.

Steph did a Q&A with KC Joyner on her Chron blog, and talk of Dunta surfaced.

There's plenty of other discussable topics in that link (like Joyner's thoughts on Fred Bennett and Jacques Reeves), so click it if you haven't read it already.

Anyhoo, my comment was that stats are awesome, but YPA alone (including in combo with other stats) fails to account for Dunta's intangibles. I'm sure Joyner realizes this, but he's been rough on Dunta in the past, too. Good read (thanks again, Steph) and interesting info nonetheless.

I'm wondering with Bennett, Reeves, and Molden on the roster; if the Texans draft a guy like Dominique Johnson in the 3rd round just in case things go bad in negotiations with Dunta.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Roy P

I'm wondering with Bennett, Reeves, and Molden on the roster; if the Texans draft a guy like Dominique Johnson in the 3rd round just in case things go bad in negotiations with Dunta.

As a UFA, Dunta would be free to sign with another team long before the draft comes around in late April, unless he is franchised.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by Keith

As a UFA, Dunta would be free to sign with another team long before the draft comes around in late April, unless he is franchised.

Let me re-phrase from "just in case" to "in case" then. We were able to squeak through without Dunta on the field. It was nice when he came back, but it's not like we are talking about Champ Bailey or Darrell Green.

[Joshua]

I agree that Dunta wasn't his old self when he returned and certainly wasn't a lockdown corner. In fact, he probably never was. At his best, he was an above average, but not elite, cover corner. However, he made up for any coverage deficiencies with his play in the running game, leadership, competitiveness, etc. It appears as though Joyner's metrics only involve coverage. If that is all he is considering in evaluating Dunta, he's sorely missing the whole picture.

While it's impossible to divvy up credit or blame, the Texans were 5-1 with him in the starting lineup and 3-7 without. While the franchise tag is steep, if they can't get a deal done, I think they need to use it.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Roy P

We were able to squeak through without Dunta on the field.

Squeak through? The Texans were 1-4 before his return to part-time status in the Lions game. He joined a defense that has since lost by choice both its coordinator and DB coach. That is a mighty uninspiring squeak.

While I won't make the direct connection that Robinson was responsible for the late season surge by the defense (improved play from the D-line and LBs, in addition a possible retreat of authority from Richard Smith seem every bit as if not more integral), it does seem a bit too coincidental to dismiss, too.

I get that Dunta has not been a 'top 5' (or even a 'top 10') CB and that he is replaceable... but I am uneasy right now turning the secondary over to Bennett and Reeves and pinning hopes on Molden, who played little CB as a rookie plus maybe someone drafted in April.

Maybe Bennett will return to form, maybe Molden will develop, maybe Reeves will turn around to look for the ball.... I dunno, that's a lot of maybes. And it's not like the defense can call upon some great safeties to overcome any deficiencies, either.

So yeah, maybe Dunta isn't the best cover corner ever, but I'd prefer to have in on the roster in 2009... in addition to the possibility his play might improve, he might have a positive influence on guys like Bennett and Molden as a mentor, too.

[sinnister]

Originally Posted by Roy P

Let me re-phrase from "just in case" to "in case" then. We were able to squeak through without Dunta on the field. It was nice when he came back, but it's not like we are talking about Champ Bailey or Darrell Green.

At this point, I feel it is imperative to resign Dunta, or if necessary, franchise him to see how he does this year. To lose him would be to lose what little intangibles we have on D. He isn't a lockdown CB, but make no mistake, before he came back, I felt like I could get open against the Texans CBs. Ok, that is an exaggeration.

I do feel that Bennett will play better next year, and having Dunta will continue to help him. I have hopes that Reeves will play better as well....He certainly played better in the 2nd half of the season than the 1st. We don't know what Molden brings to the table since he rarely saw the field.

So, I am hoping the Texans are able to find D help in the draft, but not at the CB position. We are in dire need at the S position, a space eating tackle, and an edge rusher. We are able to fill more holes with Dunta than without him, and I havent seen anyone able to fill his leadership role.

[popanot]

This defense has been the achillies heel of the franchise for the past 4+ years. We need all the good players we can get on that side of the ball, and without a doubt, DRob is a top quality player. Perhaps not he's amoung the top-5 in the league, but he's definitely the best we have and certainly good enough to justify paying him top-level money if that's what it takes. It would be asinine for this franchise to let him walk and not have him as a key part of building a top-notch defense. Going into the '09 season with Bennett, Reeves, Molden, Petey or -insert Draftee or FA here - without DRob would be a serious step backwards, IMO.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by Keith

Squeak through? The Texans were 1-4 before his return to part-time status in the Lions game.

Take a look at the teams we played against in those 1st 5 games and what their records were at the end of the season.

Did we need Dunta to win against Detroit, Cincinnatti, and Cleveland? He just wasn't enough to keep the Raiders in check.

My point is, a single player who is not a top 10 player at his position should not be paid like one. Would I like to keep him? Yeah, I like what he brings to the team. Would I pay him more than Reeves? Yeah, simply because we paid him too much, so it's only fair to overpay Dunta too.

[Joshua]

With all this talk about top 10 salaries and whether Dunta is worthy or not, I thought I'd post the USA Today's database of corner salaries for 2008 -

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/f...n.aspx?pos=139

[coloradodude]

Originally Posted by Roy P

My point is, a single player who is not a top 10 player at his position should not be paid like one.

Solid point regarding any player or any position.

[sinnister]

Originally Posted by Joshua

With all this talk about top 10 salaries and whether Dunta is worthy or not, I thought I'd post the USA Today's database of corner salaries for 2008 -

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/f...n.aspx?pos=139

Wow!! Nice article.....DROB is about to get a significant raise. Considering we are paying JReeves 7M, I think DROB is worth much more than him......Granted, we overpaid for Reeves, but that isnt DROB's fault.

[dadmg]

If they're nervous about health, they should franchise him, but I'd go straight ahead for the long term deal. There are few teams with good enough secondaries to let a corner as good and young as Dunta go and we're about as far away from that level as can be. I have no doubt that he'll bounce back next year just as I had little doubt he'd struggle this year. Maybe we can even get a slight discount if we sign him long-term now because of the "injury concerns."

[Nconroe]

I agree we ought to try and sign Dunta to a long term deal. He's almost all the way back from injury and a great team leader and mentor for the young guys.

For Reeves, looks like cap number is around 3.5M/yr, still plenty, but not 7m, perhaps first year included a signing bonus.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by Nconroe

I agree we ought to try and sign Dunta to a long term deal. He's almost all the way back from injury and a great team leader and mentor for the young guys.

But is he really, and if the Texans are uncertain about that issue it's what really complicates their decision about what kind of a deal to offer D-Rob ?
I agree with you about D-Robs value in the locker-room, but his on-field skills ultimately is what it's all about and I thought his '08 comeback, while remarkable, was also inconsistant and inconclusive in answering the question about him fully recapturing his preinjury-2007 skill-set/athletic ability ?

[cadams]

I don't know what it would take to get him signed to a longterm deal, but if they f-tag him, that is going to be extremely expensive, I am guessing something like 15 million, and if he is all the way back then his next contract will have to be huge, because he will probably be the best corner on the market (and would be this year as well). I say sign him now and maybe you can get a discount based on the "uncertainty".

[Keith]

Originally Posted by cadams

if they f-tag him, that is going to be extremely expensive, I am guessing something like 15 million

No, too high. The F-tag at CB is probably going to be in the neighborhood of $9.9 million.

I'm all for negotiating a long-term deal with him because (1) I heart him, obviously, but (2) because I agree with you in that I think the Texans can get something of a bargain price on a player I think will prove to be much better than anything we saw in 2008.

But there's risk, and even at a discount, Dunta is probably going to command guaranteed money in ohhhh the $15-17 million range? Tough to say. Chris Gamble is rumored to have received $20-23 million "guaranteed" in a 6-yr deal late last year. (I use quotes on the guaranteed since $10 million of that comes in the form of a roster bonus due to him next month.)

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if he is signed to a multi-year contract, the Texans will be paying Dunta more - much more - cash-wise in 2009 than the $10 million or so as a F-tagged player. The long vs. short decision might just boil down to how much risk Rick Smith (and ultimately Bob McNair) are willing to take on Dunta for 2009.

[dalemurphy]

I would transition tag him. He would cost about $2 million less and it would give the team some protection while he tried to shop himself around the NFL. If he's asking for top dollar, he can find out for himself that he can't get it and will likely be priced down into something the team is willing to pay. If he signs with someone else, we still have an opportunity to match.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

I would transition tag him. He would cost about $2 million less and it would give the team some protection while he tried to shop himself around the NFL. If he's asking for top dollar, he can find out for himself that he can't get it and will likely be priced down into something the team is willing to pay. If he signs with someone else, we still have an opportunity to match.

Honestly Dale, don't you think many of these guys in D-Robs positon (coming into FA like D-Rob is), already have a pretty good feel for what's out there. I mean I think the players (thru their agents) not only talk to other teams but carry on active negotiations prior to actually become a FA. Officially I know its strictly forbidden, but I suspect it routinely happens every year.

[cadams]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

I would transition tag him. He would cost about $2 million less and it would give the team some protection while he tried to shop himself around the NFL. If he's asking for top dollar, he can find out for himself that he can't get it and will likely be priced down into something the team is willing to pay. If he signs with someone else, we still have an opportunity to match.

dunta would get pretty close to top dollar on the open market. he would be the most sought after db fa this offseason.

[NBT]

Originally Posted by cadams

dunta would get pretty close to top dollar on the open market. he would be the most sought after db fa this offseason.

Dunta WAS good, yes! But last year he was coming off a bad injury. He only got to play in the last part of the season and he still wasn't full speed yet. So it is still problematical if he is or WILL, get back to his old self. So saying, I want the Texans to continue to negotiate in good faith until we find out what his fair market price is going to be. If, say by June, he is not signed, is time enough to think about the dreaded tag.