At The Combine - Page 5

BigBull · #81 02-26-2009, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrett

This is why I do pay attention to the combine.

If a guy cannot prepare for the combine and run and test at his best with his future on the line, then he lacks the profesionalism and work ethic to be a very good NFL football player.

I don't think that is a fair assessment of every player who performs poorly at the combine. It could be that their trainer didn't train them properly. Not everyone gets the benefit of training with a trainer like Danny Arnold of Plex. I think nerves play a big role in it too. I mean these young men that mostly come from families with little money know that how they perform could mean millions of dollars in some cases.

BigBull · #82 02-26-2009, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papabear

I'm intrigued by this idea. A guy who was considered a top corner at Safety sounds great on paper. The problem is playing safety is a whole other skill set than playing man coverage type corner. I don't know enough about Jenkins to know if he would make a good safety or not, but there's more to being a safety than just being a slow corner.

He actually played a lot of safety for the Ohio State Buckeyes.

Roy P · #83 02-26-2009, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBull

He actually played a lot of safety for the Ohio State Buckeyes.

Jenkins is pretty adamant that he is a CB. Now, perhaps he's being defensive because he was considered a top ten pick before he ran a 4.55. Maybe he realizes that CB money is going to be more than FS money.

If I were to go by on field attributes, Vontae Davis would make the better FS. Then the 1st problem is will he be available at #15 after his Combine. He may be the ONLY CB worthy of a 1st round pick in this draft. The 2nd problem is he going to be willing to learn a new position that will potentially earn him less money.

The pundits point at Antrel Rolle in Arizona as the model. However, Rolle was given the opportunity to play CB before he was moved to FS. We are dealing with real people with pride in themselves who have been successful at every level. You have to be careful that they don't feel disrespected or you won't get the best effort out of them.

On the other hand, players who are drafted later in the draft, perhaps were not recruited (but walked on at College), will be very eager to do whatever it takes to make a roster. A player who feels he has something to prove has the intrinsic motivation to learn a new position. A "stud" who feels he has nothing to prove might learn a new position, but he'll do so begrudgingly.

Roy P · #84 02-26-2009, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mussop

Check this thread out its already been talked about.

Surrendering a 3rd to make sure they get their QB of the future isnt out of the question.

I'd love to trade down and get more picks, but let's step back a minute. The Detroit Lions could very well bundle some picks to the Patriots for the opportunity to pay Matt Cassel to play QB. He is the safest QB they could get because they have seen the level of play he's capable of in the NFL.

The San Diego Chargers are behind us with Whitehurst, Voler, and Rivers. Why wouldn't the Lions just trade up to #16 instead of #15? They just need to get ahead of the Jets, right?

papabear · #85 02-26-2009, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy P

The San Diego Chargers are behind us with Whitehurst, Voler, and Rivers. Why wouldn't the Lions just trade up to #16 instead of #15? They just need to get ahead of the Jets, right?

That's simple....because we just called the lions and told them that the jets were on the other line. How about you handle the scouting and I handle the trades

papabear · #86 02-26-2009, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBull

I don't think that is a fair assessment of every player who performs poorly at the combine. It could be that their trainer didn't train them properly. Not everyone gets the benefit of training with a trainer like Danny Arnold of Plex. I think nerves play a big role in it too. I mean these young men that mostly come from families with little money know that how they perform could mean millions of dollars in some cases.

It's not just the performance though. Is he in shape? Was he ready for the drills and how they were supposed to be run? If a guy's in good shape and runs a 4.7 then he just runs a 4.7. If a guy is flabby and huffing and puffing through the drills and runs a 4.7....he didn't take it seriously. It's not just the drills either. How do they carry themselves? Do they take the process seriously, or do they just treat it like a vacation.

It's perfectly understandable for a kid to be nervous, but his response to those nerves gives you some idea of how he handles all that pressure.

Roy P · #87 02-26-2009, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papabear

That's simple....because we just called the lions and told them that the jets were on the other line. How about you handle the scouting and I handle the trades

If you are going to handle the trades, then make the deal with the Jets. That way we don't have to drop down to #20, we only have to drop to #17.

Roy P · #88 02-26-2009, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papabear

Was he ready for the drills and how they were supposed to be run?

That is something that frustrates me. When a kid has to be told several times how to get into a stance before taking off on his 40, I just shake my head. I would expect a player to have prepared for his job interview to the point where he wouldn't need any instructions on the day of the Combine. In fact, by that point, he should be able to give the instructions on how to run a 40 as well as every other drill at the Combine.

I'm sitting here watching the NFL Network for the last couple of years and it never fails. Its funny, but I think I could run the drills without instructions and do them correctly. My times would be horrible, but the drill would be run like they are supposed to be.

It reflects a lack of pride in professionalism. I wish I could go back and watch Travis Johnson at the Combine to see if there were any signs to pick up on.

jppaul · #89 02-26-2009, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papabear

I'm intrigued by this idea. A guy who was considered a top corner at Safety sounds great on paper. The problem is playing safety is a whole other skill set than playing man coverage type corner. I don't know enough about Jenkins to know if he would make a good safety or not, but there's more to being a safety than just being a slow corner.

Yeah, PB, but Jenkins also played alot of safety at Ohio State, he wasn't exclusively a corner they moved him around. Come on man, you don't think that I would base drafting him at safety because he was slow. Have a little faith.

I was just thinking after running that time he might actually be around at 15 now.

painekiller · #90 02-26-2009, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy P

If you are going to handle the trades, then make the deal with the Jets. That way we don't have to drop down to #20, we only have to drop to #17.

And what the heck do you want at 17? I want to drop completely out of the 1st and gather a bunch of 2nd round picks. That is when the value seems to outway the questions.

papabear · #91 02-26-2009, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jppaul

Yeah, PB, but Jenkins also played alot of safety at Ohio State, he wasn't exclusively a corner they moved him around. Come on man, you don't think that I would base drafting him at safety because he was slow. Have a little faith.

I was just thinking after running that time he might actually be around at 15 now.

I did kinda forget about that...but I still don't how much "alot" is. I don't watch the big 10 much. Consider it a general statement on the idea that you can just move any slow-ish corner to safety and everything will work out.

papabear · #92 02-26-2009, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by painekiller

And what the heck do you want at 17? I want to drop completely out of the 1st and gather a bunch of 2nd round picks. That is when the value seems to outway the questions.

I would have no problem moving back several times and ending up with several picks in the second...and maybe a couple extra for the third too

Roy P · #93 02-26-2009, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by painekiller

And what the heck do you want at 17? I want to drop completely out of the 1st and gather a bunch of 2nd round picks. That is when the value seems to outway the questions.

I don't know yet who's going to be at #17. If Orakpo is there still at #15, I might not want to trade down. Maybe Vontae Davis at #17, if the Saints don't draft him at #14. Perhaps, BJ Raji is still sitting there or perhaps Aaron Curry or Michael Crabtree. I just don't know right now.

What I do know is that this draft does not appear to have a bunch of guys that meet all of my measurables. There are a lot of questionable players who may or may not make much of themselves. I suppose, that is your reasoning for wanting many 2nd round picks. My problem is, how many of those players we are expecting to be available in the 2nd round, end up being selected in the 1st round.

I've seen Clay Matthews and Donald Brown beginning to move up boards. Lawrence Sidbury should be climbing up shortly. The OC's Unger, Mack, and Woods are moving up. I may have 2nd round picks that I can only use on players like William Moore and Michael Johnson (guys who were 1st rounders, but were bumped down and out). It's still to early to tell. Heck, Rang has the Colts drafting Ziggy Hood in the 1st round now!

painekiller · #94 02-26-2009, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy P

I've seen Clay Matthews and Donald Brown beginning to move up boards. Lawrence Sidbury should be climbing up shortly. The OC's Unger, Mack, and Woods are moving up. I may have 2nd round picks that I can only use on players like William Moore and Michael Johnson (guys who were 1st rounders, but were bumped down and out). It's still to early to tell. Heck, Rang has the Colts drafting Ziggy Hood in the 1st round now!

If there was someway to move around and come out of day one with Clay Matthews and Donald Brown then I would be all for it.

I'm scared we are going to come out of day one with Michael Johnson and William Moore. Two guys who I have said have bigger questions than I am willing to try and answer on day one.

And BTW, I have not been able to see why Ziggy has not been considered a 1st rounder before now.

gunslinger57 · #95 02-26-2009, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by painekiller

And BTW, I have not been able to see why Ziggy has not been considered a 1st rounder before now.

Well, I mean, LOOK at him. He's like 3 feet tall, bald, has a huge nose, and no arms that I've ever seen. And that little white dog of his is rediculous.

painekiller · #96 02-26-2009, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunslinger57

Well, I mean, LOOK at him. He's like 3 feet tall, bald, has a huge nose, and no arms that I've ever seen. And that little white dog of his is rediculous.

Good one, I am sure you know this but for some of those who might not, I meant Evander "Ziggy" Hood from Mizzou.

Again that was a good one.

gunslinger57 · #97 02-26-2009, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by painekiller

Good one, I am sure you know this but for some of those who might not, I meant Evander "Ziggy" Hood from Mizzou.

Again that was a good one.

Thanks. I'm much more knowledgeable of pro than college ball, so my analysis of most college players is basically either, "Wow, he's pretty good" or "Eh, whatever," but I felt like contributing something to the thread, even if it was just juvenile humor.

painekiller · #98 02-26-2009, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunslinger57

Thanks. I'm much more knowledgeable of pro than college ball, so my analysis of most college players is basically either, "Wow, he's pretty good" or "Eh, whatever," but I felt like contributing something to the thread, even if it was just juvenile humor.

Hey we need all types here, just keep posting. We do not have the volume of bad post here to muddle through so I prefer to play here.

painekiller · #99 02-27-2009, 11:15 PM

Did not want to start a new thread for this, did anyone else hear John McClain talk about the electronic timers at the combine? He said they had two of them and one was not working at all and the other was messing up. The scouts don't care so much because they all hand time themselves, but the agents are PO ed, because the league is releasing these slow times as official. So Joe public thinks prospect AB is a bum because he ran a 4.7 when he really was low 4.6.

John also said if the league does not correct the problem he can see less guys running in Indy and waiting for their pro day on their agents orders.

mussop · #**100** 02-28-2009, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by painekiller

Did not want to start a new thread for this, did anyone else hear John McClain talk about the electronic timers at the combine? He said they had two of them and one was not working at all and the other was messing up. The scouts don't care so much because they all hand time themselves, but the agents are PO ed, because the league is releasing these slow times as official. So Joe public thinks prospect AB is a bum because he ran a 4.7 when he really was low 4.6.

John also said if the league does not correct the problem he can see less guys running in Indy and waiting for their pro day on their agents orders.

I read somewhere that they were .6 slow.