2009 Cap

[jaimeg]

According to the Keith cap page, we'll have roughly 29 mil? Is that for real? Are Wong, Davis etc (the last of CCs regime), finally off the books? I know our free agency luck has sucked but no one seems to excited; so I am puzzled why this thread wasn't started last Monday. First priority hopefully is Dunta, but after that what? Who is out there that could help?

[Nconroe]

Good suggestion of something to analyze.

of course from the 29 mil we need to resign several of our own FA, not just Dunta, and rookies, but it should be over 10 mil if desired, although if team decides it is a down economic year, could be go slowly on this. FA in general seem a second choice to building through draft.

some of important dates are:
February 19 Last day for NFL teams to use their franchise tag
February 27 Free agent signing period begins

some top FA
http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story?...o&confirm=true

here is a good list of FA by position
http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/featu...tion=RB&y=2009
and
http://www.nowpublic.com/sports/2009-nfl-free-agents

or here with some analysis
http://www.footballsfuture.com/freeagents.html

[Bigtinylittle]

I think we can forget signing any of the top tier free agents. No way we use almost all our cap space on one player.

[Nconroe]

just wondering, would these guys fit in the budget and be helpful perhaps if available:
Nnamdi Asomugha CB Height: 6-2 Weight: 210 Age: 27 , currently Oakland
Karlos Dansby OLB Height: 6-4 Weight: 250 Age: 27, currently Arizona

[RunninRaven]

I'm sure Asomugha would be helpful, but I'm thinking he's going to get a big time payday, much like Peppers will. That, or he'll be franchised.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Nconroe

just wondering, would these guys fit in the budget and be helpful perhaps if available:
Nnamdi Asomugha CB Height: 6-2 Weight: 210 Age: 27 , currently Oakland
Karlos Dansby OLB Height: 6-4 Weight: 250 Age: 27, currently Arizona

Both of those guys will be franchised. They are their teams version of the Texans Dunta. Not way they let those guys get to free agency.

The Texans while they do have alot of cap room, but need to come to contract agreements with Owen Daniels, Dunta Robinson as well as extending Demeco. That will eat up some serious cap dollars. We will still have money to spend though.

I doubt you will see big splash free agents, instead we will fill in gaps like last year. They will get a deal done with Dunta. It will cost them more than the Reeves deal. Our CB's next year will be Dunta, Reeves, Fred and Molden.

[Keith]

As we work our way through the next two months of the offseason, I'm sure I'll offer more details on my thoughts on the front page of the site. For now though, I think Mike is right.

One other thought I have not seen discussed much anywhere... 2009 is the last capped year. This is very similar to the situation a few years ago before the CBA was extended, but I have heard very little via the media in terms of upcoming extension talks between the owners and the union. Perhaps this has quite a bit to do with the passing of Gene Upshaw.

Anyhoo, there were not any radical changes imposed with the last extension, but I wonder whether that will be the same after 2009. Regardless, I think it impacts how some teams handle free agency this offseason as some teams may look to structure UFA contracts.

Generally speaking, the Texans are in as good a position as ever to make whatever offseason moves they choose. That said, they are still probably somewhere in the middle of the pack in terms of cap room (considering too that they do not have 53 players signed yet) as several other teams have done exceptionally well in managing their salary caps as well.

I'd love to add Asomugha or Dansby - both were franchised last year I think - but I don't think either will hit the open market. Dunta ought to be f-tagged if not re-signed. F-tags usually suck for the player but could really benefit Dunta if he proves to be fully recovered in 2009 (and avoids any new injury, of course, the rub for f-tagged players).

In addition to the guys Mike listed, don't forget that Matt Schaub's option could be exercised or renegotiated during the 2009 cap year. Also, that dead money from Wong, Domanick, etc. may be gone, but there may be new dead money from Weaver, Greenwood, Demps, and Green, to name a few.

The Texans have also avoided holdouts (mostly because they sucked with underperforming players), but that could change this offseason as well with cap implications. Slaton is worth more than he is paid. Pitts is entering a contract year on a Pro Bowl alternate season. Walter has outperformed his current deal and will be a UFA after 2009 as well. Kris Brown (signed thru 2009) has also earned an extension as well. I doubt any will holdout, but the ingredients for doing so are there, DeMeco and Daniels included.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Keith

As we work our way through the next two months of the offseason, I'm sure I'll offer more details on my thoughts on the front page of the site.

Stephanie asked that I write something for her blog on chron.com... I did, but I posted it here too since I've been lagging on site updates through the holidays and my since-concluded vacation.

Towards the end of the thing I have a little more info on the state of the CBA negotiations, or lack thereof.

[Mike]

Keith,

Fantastic front page article. If you did not have a day job and this site, I would submit that you should write the Texans blog on the comical, with me as a co-writer.

[Nconroe]

seems a rookie cap might be a discussion item to prevent those exorbitant first round signing bonuses when unproven results.

[da Bull]

Keith,

Good write-up. Your research and presentation definitely put the financial "state of the Texans" into perspective. Sadly though, I guess that means we can't just put together a "free agent wish list" and go out and buy whatever we want since we've pretty much moved away from the Casserly "blunders".

Since this is the "speculative" time of year, what does your gut tell you about the direction of the CBA. You've spent the time to get a lot closer to this topic than any of the rest of us so I appreciate your insight. Thanks, and Happy New Year!

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Mike

Keith,

Fantastic front page article. If you did not have a day job and this site, I would submit that you should write the Texans blog on the comical, with me as a co-writer.

Yeah, my day job pays me way too well to give it up. And sadly, my free time between my day job and my job as a husband and father has caused me to turn down a few 'fun' offers... I simply lack the time to give a blog like that the time it deserves. I would like to be more active with this site, and hopefully that will be the case in the offseason through the draft.

I'd be open to periodically posting guest articles for the site though if they were well-written and offered a new perspective on the team.

Originally Posted by Nconroe

seems a rookie cap might be a discussion item to prevent those exorbitant first round signing bonuses when unproven results.

Changes to the rookie cap is #2 on the owners' wish list for a new CBA after restructuing the overall financials of the labor agreement.

Originally Posted by da Bull

Since this is the "speculative" time of year, what does your gut tell you about the direction of the CBA. You've spent the time to get a lot closer to this topic than any of the rest of us so I appreciate your insight.

I'm reminded of the popular rephrasing of Occam's razor in times like this where there seem to be so many possibilities of where this might go next. The bottom line is that too many teams are thriving and both sides have too much to lose in a work stoppage for something really wild and unforeseen to happen.

So while I expect this to get uglier than the last negotiation three years ago (with a more unified ownership and an eager new NFLPA director), ultimately I still think this will get resolved with the majority of the existing CBA, including the salary cap, in tact before March 2011, maybe even by March 2010 like Upshaw had hoped. Neither side is completely satisfied, but that's part of what makes it a compromise.

[Keith]

Someone pointed out that this was a comment in one of John McClain's blogs a few days ago.

General,

According to Keith Weiland at inthebullseye.com: http://www.inthebullseye.com/cap2009.html

the available salary cap is $29,304,804. If you expect them to cut Ahman Green, add $2.8 million, Will Demps add $1.8 million and Greenwood add $3.2 million, that would come to approx. $37 million. Is this wrong? they don't expect to spend it all? What numbers do you have?

{Larry, I don't know anyone anywhere who knows exactly what teams have avaiilable under the cap unless they work for the team and have every salary available to them with all the clauses with bonuses and adjustments, etc. Uusally, they're several million off for a number of reasons, beginning with they -- and us -- don't know what teams are doing behind the scenes with contracts. The Texans will have more to spend than in the past, but they won't spend $30 mil guaranteed on a free agent. It's not their style. They'll use their money to re-sign their best players and then try to fill needs. They'll also keep money available for next season when injuries will cause them to sign players. Happy New Year. -- JOHN}



Posted by: Larry House at January 2, 2009 02:17 PM

I don't know who Larry is (anyone here?), but the response is interesting. John is mostly correct. He's right in that independent salary cap pages are almost always wrong. I say so myself on the page even. But they (ItB.com's and other amateur cap pages around the league) are more accurate than ever before.

One reason of course is that we understand the rules better, that helps. It also helps that there was a leak last spring that allowed several of us (myself included) to view all the details that seem to elude the media. Hopefully John and others will help us this spring in reporting (accurate) details of the new contracts signed.

[kravix]

I am not Larry. Plus I cannot even listen to the man on the radio let alone bring myself to read his blog regularly. I trust McClains knowledge, reporting skills, and investigation skills less than my 2 year olds.

McClain's entire response was more to discredit the poster and his sources. yes we understand the cap page here is off. Howver if you look at the cap page here on ITB and see the projected 3M under the capf or 2008, Keith is probably on the higher side rather than the lower side. Which means that the projected 30M for 2009 could really be 33M plus cuts. Also John pointed out that the team wouldnt guarantee 30M to a single player, of course they wont. They may spend it over 3-5 years but not in a single year.

I have no designs for a big FA spash this year, or any year for that matter. FA money is typically not worth it. Add in the facts that Keith has already pointed out about the CBA and the FA market and signings could be rather odd this offseason. Some players will attempt to lock in and some will want good payoffs quick in hopes of an uncapped season. It will really depend on how greedy and selfish they are.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by kravix

Some players will attempt to lock in and some will want good payoffs quick in hopes of an uncapped season. It will really depend on how greedy and selfish they are.

I think this is one reason why I am and have been so fascinated by Dunta's contract situation. Given his injury and inconclusive 2008 performance (by his own pre-injury standards), I had been thinking that the F-tag really might be the best way to go.

But if that means then trying to negotiate with Robinson's agent in an uncapped year after he (optimistically) has justified his full return to pre-injury form, then that would cost the team a whole heck of a lot more by using the F-tag.

It'd be a gamble by Robinson to come to the table next month asking for the moon knowing the F-tag might be the consequence, but it would certainly be a calculated one.

Owen Daniels is in a slightly similar position, different since he is a RFA and coming off his best season ever, injury-free. And really, same question can be applied for all those other '09 UFAs like DeMeco Ryans... do you pay them now under the current cap system when you have ample room to do so or do you wait until next year and follow the Domanick Davis lesson of why pay now when you can pay later? But if you wait, then there may not be a cap, at least for one year and maybe more.

It is a philosophical question for the front office, and I am very interested to find out what path they choose. This one offseason could have huge ramifications on the future of this team well beyond what happens on the field in 2009.

[papabear]

Originally Posted by Keith

I think this is one reason why I am and have been so fascinated by Dunta's contract situation. Given his injury and inconclusive 2008 performance (by his own pre-injury standards), I had been thinking that the F-tag really might be the best way to go.

But if that means then trying to negotiate with Robinson's agent in an uncapped year after he (optimistically) has justified his full return to pre-injury form, then that would cost the team a whole heck of a lot more by using the F-tag.

It'd be a gamble by Robinson to come to the table next month asking for the moon knowing the F-tag might be the consequence, but it would certainly be a calculated one.

Owen Daniels is in a slightly similar position, different since he is a RFA and coming off his best season ever, injury-free. And really, same question can be applied for all those other '09 UFAs like DeMeco Ryans... do you pay them now under the current cap system when you have ample room to do so or do you wait until next year and follow the Domanick Davis lesson of why pay now when you can pay later? But if you wait, then there may not be a cap, at least for one year and maybe more.

It is a philosophical question for the front office, and I am very interested to find out what path they choose. This one offseason could have huge ramifications on the future of this team well beyond what happens on the field in 2009.

My guess is to do it now if you can is the best way to go. History (of the NFL) shows that salaries are only going to go up. We have some young talented players that I'm sure McNair wants to keep around. The owners are supposedly a united front on the CBA this time around, but if things go uncapped I can't imagine one or two wouldn't go on spending spree (read Jones, Jerry and Synder, Dan). That's only going to make negotiations that much more difficult.

With Dunta's injury I'm very tempted to use the F-tag if negations stall, but hopefully it never comes to that. There's nothing to stop these guys from demanding a new contract and threatening holdouts if a things go uncapped and they see lesser players, at least in their minds, cashing in. Either way, guys like Owen, Demeco, and Dunta are too important to not lock in.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by jaimeg

Who is out there that could help?

I'll ignore the financials for the moment and answer the question. I never really like to sign the highest salaries anyway.

1. Cut Ahman Green and look to draft Slaton's counterpart.
2. Cut Anthony Weaver and sign Jovan Haye from Tampa Bay.
3. Cut Morlon Greenwood and go after Jonathan Vilma from New Orleans. If he's too expensive - get another LB in the draft.
4. Cut Will Demps and inquire about the services of Sean Jones from Cleveland. Otherwise we keep our fingers crossed and hope that Mays or Moore is available when we pick.
5. Jason Brown can play RG or OC from the Ravens and I would look at his price tag closely.

[Bigtinylittle]

I don't know Jason Brown, but if he isn't a ZBS kind of guy I don't see us going after him. The same goes for any bruiser type running backs in the draft. I definately expect us to draft a running back, but it could easily be another Slaton type. Also, we don't save much by cutting Weaver so I expect him to stay. I expect Green, Greenwood and Demps to be history.

[NickO]

Originally Posted by Bigtinylittle

I don't know Jason Brown, but if he isn't a ZBS kind of guy I don't see us going after him.

Just a couple points:
1) All teams have some sort of zone-blocking in their offenses, so the skill itself doesn't bother me as much as the coordination with other linemen.
2) No idea of his agility, but Brown's a big boy (6'3", 320lbs). Myers certainly had trouble holding the point of attack at times this season, and with Henderson/Haynesworth in the division (at least for now), it's something to think about.
3) Myers is cheap (4yrs, $11MM, $3MM bonus), durable, and has 16 games of experience with the same linemen.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by NickO

Just a couple points:
2) No idea of his agility, but Brown's a big boy (6'3", 320lbs). Myers certainly had trouble holding the point of attack at times this season, and with Henderson/Haynesworth in the division (at least for now), it's something to think about.

Brown could also play RG.

As for his agility...he was in the 2005 draft class. At the Combine his numbers were.....

1.85 - 10 yard split
4.52 - Shuttle
7.72 - Cone

If you compare those numbers to Chester Pitts' Combine of the following:

1.84 - 10 yard
4.81 - Shuttle
7.84 - Cone

then, you might think he could do a decent job along the Offensive line in a ZBS under Gibbs.