The upcoming Tennessee game (12-14-08)

[Mike]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

I think we've got a shot this weekend vs. the Titans after the way the Texans played this past Sunday in GB on a short week of prep. This is a "rival game" as they say in college and I expect the Texans to be focused. Then after this weekend I say we shut it down and play, maybe even start rookies like Moulden and Barber and Okam, etc. Lets get a look at them and give them some regular season experience on an extended basis.
Of course Kubiak won't do that. He'll try his damnest to win as many more games as possilble even though the wins would be meaningless in the longer term and will actually decrease the value of the Texans Draft position and unnecessarily raise expectations even higher for the 2009 season.

I think we have a shot as well. It puzzles me to see this ongoing fascination with Frank Okam. Has he even made a tackle in his time on the field? Has he even flashed anything? Molden and Barber are not ready and our safety play has been decent with Ferguson (who I hope is healthy) and Wilson. Molden coming from the small school is being brought along slow.

[papabear]

Originally Posted by Mike

I think we have a shot as well. It puzzles me to see this ongoing fascination with Frank Okam. Has he even made a tackle in his time on the field? Has he even flashed anything? Molden and Barber are not ready and our safety play has been decent with Ferguson (who I hope is healthy) and Wilson. Molden coming from the small school is being brought along slow.

Okam's made a few nice plays (2 or 3), but far more he's been pushed around and been ineffective...more so than our other DT's which is saying something.
I'm all for giving the young guys a chance, but they need to earn it during the week and I can't make that call. Playing young guys just because they are young is a bad idea. You'll lose the veterans in a hurry if they don't think the kid deserves it.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by papabear

Okam's made a few nice plays (2 or 3), but far more he's been pushed around and been ineffective...more so than our other DT's which is saying something.
I'm all for giving the young guys a chance, but they need to earn it during the week and I can't make that call. Playing young guys just because they are young is a bad idea. You'll lose the veterans in a hurry if they don't think the kid deserves it.

Exactly my point. My statement was made somewhat tongue in cheek. If he had come from any school other than UT, nobody would give a flip about him. I have watched every snap this season and my recollections are that he plays slow and he plays high and has not been effective.

As sorry as this sounds, he is not better than TJ, Zgonia, Robinson, Nading....

[papabear]

Originally Posted by Mike

. If he had come from any school other than UT, nobody would give a flip about him.

People get entirely to worked up about this kind of thing...Anytime a "local" college player is successful they are going to get extra attention. Throw in the fact that many people had Okam as a first round type pick at one point, and I understand the extra attention he gets. It does get a little ridiculous sometimes, see Vince Young, but people are always going to be interested in the players they cheered for in college. I know a guy who follows the Texans for no other reason than Petey Faggins and Zach Diles were a couple of his favorites from his alma mater K-State...yes even he admits Faggins sucks. There's a lot UT fans in this area. It's going to happen. Any time a Texas college has a high profile player there's going to be a group of people who want the Texans to take them. It doesn't mean it's the right thing, but it's only natural.

I'm about as big a UT fan as anyone. I never wanted Vince. I didn't think Derrick Johnson fit our system at the time. I questioned Charles between the tackles. I thought just about every one of the highly touted Longhorn DB's was over-rated/hyped. I've been as hard on Okam as anyone.

[sinnister]

Originally Posted by Mike

Exactly my point. My statement was made somewhat tongue in cheek. If he had come from any school other than UT, nobody would give a flip about him. I have watched every snap this season and my recollections are that he plays slow and he plays high and has not been effective.

As sorry as this sounds, he is not better than TJ, Zgonia, Robinson, Nading....

I have watched every snap as well. I shave a lot of games on DVR, and I have seen Okam play.....but honestly, I don't think he has stood out in a good or bad way. He almost made a nice play in the backfield last week, but he hasnt been pushed around any more than our other DTs. UT has nothing to do with any fascination. It was widely accepted among scouts that Okams talent level is very high.....the question is his motor. Some say that has to do with a change in schemes at UT. Anyway, coaches will tell you that it usually takes 3 years for a DL to develop. I can tell you that Glenn Dorsey didnt stand out in any games I watched this year as well. I have not watched every KC snap....My disclaimer....I can't speak for everyone, but for me, my reasons are simple.

1. I am on a 3 year plan
2. He needs some experience. Sorry, but I have seen Zgonia pushed around so much, it tires me. He is a great locker room presence, but he has slipped a lot this year.
3. He does need to earn pt....I concede this point; however, there is a point you begin replacing veterans with youth as the season concludes. I think this is what most are asking.....See what he can do on the field. After all, there is a difference from the practice field and the playing field.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by sinnister

UT has nothing to do with any fascination. It was widely accepted among scouts that Okams talent level is very high.....the question is his motor.

Seems like people may be talking about 2 different things. If you're talking about what NFL scouts thought of him, I agree that UT probably had little to do with it. However, I understood the question to center around fans' fascination with him on message boards, etc. The fact that he is from UT most definitely plays a role in this. People went crazy when the Texans passed on Derrick Johnson. People went ridiculously crazy when the Texans passed on Vince Young. People immediately started calling for the Texans to sign Cedric Benson when he was cut. If you think it was simply happenstance that all of these guys were from UT and this didn't play a role in why certain fans wanted them, you're crazy.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by sinnister

1. I am on a 3 year plan
2. He needs some experience. Sorry, but I have seen Zgonia pushed around so much, it tires me. He is a great locker room presence, but he has slipped a lot this year.
3. He does need to earn pt....I concede this point; however, there is a point you begin replacing veterans with youth as the season concludes. I think this is what most are asking.....See what he can do on the field. After all, there is a difference from the practice field and the playing field.

1) Bob McNair is not on the same plan. gary Kubiak also not on that plan. The goal is to win. Win as many games as possible and play whoever gives that best chance.
2) You earn PT in practice. Anyone who has played any level of football understands that. Okam level of play went down after the NC year. Hence, his draft stock fell. He had time in camp/preseason to earn time. He did not earn time.
3) Veterans and players who are going to be here want to win. The wanted to beat SF years ago even if they lost the #1 pick. You play who gives you the change to win. Too bad for on the job training. This is the NFL. Vets don't deserve to lose a job to a rook.

[sinnister]

Originally Posted by Mike

1) Bob McNair is not on the same plan. gary Kubiak also not on that plan. The goal is to win. Win as many games as possible and play whoever gives that best chance.
2) You earn PT in practice. Anyone who has played any level of football understands that. Okam level of play went down after the NC year. Hence, his draft stock fell. He had time in camp/preseason to earn time. He did not earn time.
3) Veterans and players who are going to be here want to win. The wanted to beat SF years ago even if they lost the #1 pick. You play who gives you the change to win. Too bad for on the job training. This is the NFL. Vets don't deserve to lose a job to a rook.

1. Mcnair's timetable has nothing to do with the development of a DT. Kubiak is on a timeline of development, but I would think he wants to see improvement. Again, this is an entirely different point and another subject altogether. If your point is correct, then one must always pursue free agents. You have to allow rookies to learn and play, while juggling veteran players who are better. If you don't, then your team will always fail.

2. Anyone who has played football will tell you that you do have players who don't perform as well on a practice field as they do on playing field, or perform great on a practice field and stink it up on the playing field. There are a lot of reasons why this is, and anyone who has played sports knows this.

3. This is correct, but it also shows if you live for the here and now, you will lose. Kubiak has stated he should have played Diles, Walter, and Bennett sooner than he did. I am not saying this is the case for Okam, but merely saying that a good organization understands the long term development of the team may be a little short term suffering. All the practice in the world is completely different when the cameras start, the crowds are there, and the pressure is on. Again, anyone who plays sports knows this.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by sinnister

1. Mcnair's timetable has nothing to do with the development of a DT. Kubiak is on a timeline of development, but I would think he wants to see improvement. Again, this is an entirely different point and another subject altogether. If your point is correct, then one must always pursue free agents. You have to allow rookies to learn and play, while juggling veteran players who are better. If you don't, then your team will always fail.

2. Anyone who has played football will tell you that you do have players who don't perform as well on a practice field as they do on playing field, or perform great on a practice field and stink it up on the playing field. There are a lot of reasons why this is, and anyone who has played sports knows this.

3. This is correct, but it also shows if you live for the here and now, you will lose. Kubiak has stated he should have played Diles, Walter, and Bennett sooner than he did. I am not saying this is the case for Okam, but merely saying that a good organization understands the long term development of the team may be a little short term suffering. All the practice in the world is completely different when the cameras start, the crowds are there, and the pressure is on. Again, anyone who plays sports knows this.

Where do you come up with this stuff?

Bennett played as soon as he was healthy his rookie year. Kubs never expressed regrets.

And Diles and Walter prove the opposite of what you are arguing. They did a great job in practice and earned PT (thus coach saying I wish we played those guys even though they had never performed on sunday). Both guys just did such a great job in practice that they could not be kept off the field. Thats how both of them were starters here by the beginning of their 2nd season even though neither was highly regarded. They earned it. However, Kubiak has never said anything like this with Okam. In fact he has said the opposite. He has said Okam does not practice like a pro.

Right now you have no good reason why Okam should play other than (1) he is young, and (2) even though he is no good in practice he MIGHT be good in a game.

Okam is a young guy. He will either work hard, get better, and earn snaps, or he will practice poorly, never see the field, and be out of the league. Why is this so hard to understand?

[Mike]

[QUOTE=sinnister;6279]I have watched every snap as well. I shave a lot of games on DVR, and I have seen Okam play.....but honestly, I don't think he has stood out in a good or bad way. He almost made a nice play in the backfield last week, but he hasnt been pushed around any more than our other DTs.QUOTE]

Your argument and logic is so bad, I almost missed that pearl.

"He almost made a nice play." That is really good. I almost scored with a really hot chick but just missed. Instead I ended up with the fat one with zits.

Does than mean that "insert CB's name here" almost made a great play, just missed and got burned on a 99 yard touchdown.

[sinnister]

[QUOTE=Mike;6304]

Originally Posted by sinnister

I have watched every snap as well. I shave a lot of games on DVR, and I have seen Okam play.....but honestly, I don't think he has stood out in a good or bad way. He almost made a nice play in the backfield last week, but he hasnt been pushed around any more than our other DTs.QUOTE]

Your argument and logic is so bad, I almost missed that pearl.

"He almost made a nice play." That is really good. I almost scored with a really hot chick but just missed. Instead I ended up with the fat one with zits.

Does than mean that "insert CB's name here" almost made a great play, just missed and got burned on a 99 yard touchdown.

LOL.....My point was that he hardly played.....and yes, he missed a play in the backfield.....he did disrupt the original play....Great pearl you found.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by Mike

It puzzles me to see this ongoing fascination with Frank Okam. Has he even made a tackle in his time on the field?

While it's only my speculation, I think the fascination is driven by two things. One, the belief that he has 1st round talent and we could potentially have the steal of the draft if only we could coax it out of him. Second, since he's a Texas guy, he is somewhat different than most 5th round linemen in that most people around here had heard of him. Unless you really follow college football/draft closely, it is unlikely that the average NFL fan will know much about a 5th round DT. For instance, 3 DTs were taken in front of Okam in the 5th round (Carlton Powell, Jason Shirley, and DeMario Pressley). While most have heard of Okam, I doubt many know much about these guys.

[TheMatrix31]

So are we mathematically eliminated?

[Arky]

Originally Posted by TheMatrix31

So are we mathematically eliminated?

From the playoffs? Yes. Baltimore has 9 wins which is the most the Texans can accomplish and Baltimore beat the Texans head-up...

[TheMatrix31]

That's a shame. I mean, I know we couldnt make the playoffs anyway, but it's always fun to still be officially alive, ya know?

[Arky]

Originally Posted by TheMatrix31

That's a shame. I mean, I know we couldnt make the playoffs anyway, but it's always fun to still be officially alive, ya know?

Yep.

What's it been ... like 15 years or so since a Houston pro football team has been in the playoffs? That's too long.... There's always excitement in the air when you're contending for or get to go the playoffs. Hopefully, these guys (Smith and Kubes) are building us a perennial playoff contender.... I don't have too many complaints, I can wait. 7 years? Ha! That's a mere pittance after being an Oiler fan...