What is the verdict on Okam?

[sinnister]

Originally Posted by barrett

That's my point. There is no reason for him to play. You cite age as your only reason, and yet we have three guys currently ahead of him who are 21,24,and 26. Which two of the these three young guys who have thus far outperformed him do you want to bench so Okam can play?

Again, to outperform on the field, one has to play. Okam hasn't gotten the reps you are saying.

[sinnister]

Originally Posted by nero THE zero

Leaving it to the UT homers to turn a 5th rounder into such a polarizing issue.

Not a UT person. I was born in Houston, always rooted for the Oilers/Texans. I live in Louisiana.

[sinnister]

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

Actually, where he was drafted does matter since teams will generally have more patience with players in the 1st and 2nd rounds to develop than they will guys taken in the 5-6-7 rounds. Realistically, Okam has two years to blossom or he'll probably be a camp cut in 2010.

In this instance, I disagree with you Bob. Barrett said that a reason he shouldn't be playing is because he was drafted in the 5th round. That isn't a reason for him not to play; however, you are right about your statement as a whole. The lower one is drafted, the less time he has.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by sinnister

Again, to outperform on the field, one has to play. Okam hasn't gotten the reps you are saying.

Which of those three young guys do you want to take reps from?

Why do you think Deljuan Robinson currently gets reps and Okam doesn't?

[NBT]

I know what you are getting at, but none the less Kubiak has stated more than once that he should have played a player (rookie) sooner than he did.

[nero THE zero]

Originally Posted by NBT

I know what you are getting at, but none the less Kubiak has stated more than once that he should have played a player (rookie) sooner than he did.

Kubiak has also stated that Okam is "a long, long way away."

Those two statements are incongruous, so I wouldn't bank on his coming back and regretting playing Okoye/TJ/Deljuan in place of Okam.

[sinnister]

Originally Posted by nero THE zero

Kubiak has also stated that Okam is "a long, long way away."

Those two statements are incongruous, so I wouldn't bank on his coming back and regretting playing Okoye/TJ/Deljuan in place of Okam.

Okam wouldn't be replacing Okoye. 2 different types of DT.

[NBT]

No, he would be replacing TJ, who has never really impressed me with his play. I still think B.J. Raji DT Boston College would be an improvement, and maybe the answer for that ailing Dline.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by sinnister

Okam wouldn't be replacing Okoye. 2 different types of DT.

That would imply we have some sort of consistent strategy of what type of DTs we want and a gameplan of how to use them. From what I've been able to gather, we draft undersized DTs who are not that great at the point of attack and whose best skills are getting up the field and pressuring the QB. After doing this, we then ask them to stay at home and then read and react which basically negates their skills and forces them to play to their weaknesses.

[nero THE zero]

Originally Posted by sinnister

Okam wouldn't be replacing Okoye. 2 different types of DT.

They rotate their DT. We could slide TJ to the 3-tech and put Okam in at NT. That's really pretty irrelevant though

The idea that Kubiak is going to come back and have regrets for not playing Okam like he did with Walter and Diles is unlikely given his comments on where Okam is at.

[sinnister]

I think most would agree that TJ plays out of position. Since this is the case, I tend to cut him some slack with his play. He should probably be rotating with Okoye. Okoye really needs to start coming on, but maybe the scheme is holding him back.

[NBT]

It is really a shame. Okam was pointedly asked if football is really what he wanted, or was he looking to law shcool? He answered football, but he apparantly was just trying to get some football money so he could start his law degree. What a waste of talent.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by NBT

It is really a shame. Okam was pointedly asked if football is really what he wanted, or was he looking to law shcool? He answered football, but he apparantly was just trying to get some football money so he could start his law degree. What a waste of talent.

Where is this coming from? Is he quitting the team? Or is it just that he has not lived up to you expectations?

NBT you come out of left field on a lot of your statements, but when you make up something like this either link it or say you are making it up yourself. IN web talk that is covered by the line "IMO" "In My Opinion for the less informed.

[Nconroe]

I am pretty sure I heard Kubiak on 610 about three weeks ago say he'd like to see Molden and Okam get more playing time.

I think the lazy talk was back during draft when he dropped from first to fith round.

Of course they are trying to win as well, so maybe they just aren't able to rotate in the newest guys that much.

Doesn't seem like much to worry about as defense does seem to be better for various reasons all have mentioned.

[NBT]

Originally Posted by painekiller

Where is this coming from? Is he quitting the team? Or is it just that he has not lived up to you expectations?

NBT you come out of left field on a lot of your statements, but when you make up something like this either link it or say you are making it up yourself. IN web talk that is covered by the line "IMO" "In My Opinion for the less informed.

I'm sorry you think some of my posts come out of left field PK, but maybe it just shows that we often have differing viewpoints on how some things happen. I don't have a link but it was pretty common knowledge right after last years draft, that Okam was pointedly asked if his mind was on law school, or playing pro ball. He emphaticaly stated that he really wanted to play pro ball. I just thought that since Kubiak thinks he is a long long way from being ready to play, that he was just putting up a smokescreen in order to get the money for law school. JMHO. Probably wrong, but it does bear thinking about.

[Bigtinylittle]

Originally Posted by NBT

I'm sorry you think some of my posts come out of left field PK, but maybe it just shows that we often have differing viewpoints on how some things happen. I don't have a link but it was pretty common knowledge right after last years draft, that Okam was pointedly asked if his mind was on law school, or playing pro ball. He emphaticaly stated that he really wanted to play pro ball. I just thought that since Kubiak thinks he is a long long way from being ready to play, that he was just putting up a smokescreen in order to get the money for law school. JMHO. Probably wrong, but it does bear thinking about.

I'm with Painkiller on this one. Although your suspicions about may be correct, there isn't anywhere enough evidence to say they are. If he is lazy and undermotivated, we should know it by sometime next year. Till then, I'm going to cautiously give him the rookie benefit of the doubt.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by NBT

I'm sorry you think some of my posts come out of left field PK, but maybe it just shows that we often have differing viewpoints on how some things happen. I don't have a link but it was pretty common knowledge right after last years draft, that Okam was pointedly asked if his mind was on law school, or playing pro ball. He emphaticaly stated that he really wanted to play pro ball. I just thought that since Kubiak thinks he is a long long way from being ready to play, that he was just putting up a smokescreen in order to get the money for law school. JMHO. Probably wrong, but it does bear thinking about.

The reason we come here is for the different views. And I am not against that. But your surmise was stated a lot stronger then what it was. You maybe correct in your surmise about law school, but until we see a blurb about him quitting the team to go to law school....

Another couple of factors are what I see in play here. One might be the fact that DL have historically had a slow transition to the NFL. Vince Wilfork a 1st round can't miss player, now playing at a probowl level, took a few years to become the starter for the Pats. Lesson #1 you have to give DTs 3 years at least before calling them bust.

Another myth at play is the curse of Mack Brown. Many top athletes go to Austin and never seem develop from their freshman year. They seem to live a blessed life. No one criticizes them nor pushes them. Articles have been written about this subject, and their are exceptions, but guys like Mike Williams OT, and Cory Redding DT are poster boys. Okam maybe the latest chapter of this story. One of the problems with myth, is that you have to wait to see if the player will develop from NFL coaching which is much different from the warm soft cushy place that Mack has for them.

A common factor with these point of views is time. We need time to see which guys get it which guys do not. And Okam will have to show progress next summer to still be a part of this team.

[kravix]

I am not 100% on this, but I believe even given his percieved lazy attitude his production in college was very good. His stock was very high his junior year and he was projected as a 1st rounder. I couldnt find it, but I am almost positive that his production his senior year was on par with the previous year, but a change in def scheme hurt him somewhat.

Maybe he is just getting money for law school, and maybe Amobi is just getting money for Nigeria... Okam was drafted in the 5th, and no he isnt a starter, not uncommon for 5th round picks. I dont see how any conclusions can be made about him, especially when the "3 year rule" for DL is taken into consideration.

Given the investment teams make for high picks, and the pressure of having to play them for that much money, there is nothing to say that Okam could or could not produce at the same level as Amobi atm. It is all assumptions based on coach speak from Kubiak, and draft hype.

For a dude that is taking 2-3rd string snaps in practice he hasnt looked that bad in the few games he played in. And the difference between 1st and 2nd team snaps is huge.

Tim Bulman is in his 4th year and was an undrafted rookie, but most are very high on him. His first 3 years he barely played, and now he has 16 tackles, 4 sacks, has only been active 11 games, and has started none.

I dont think there is any way a player can make it all the way to the NFL without having a passion for the game. Some make it partially on pure ability, but that isnt enough. The dedication, even at the college level, to keep up is huge. The possibility of a 5th rounder not making it is alot bigger than that of a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd rounder.