What is the verdict on Okam?

[barrett]

1. he has played and not performed
2. he cannot get on the field ahead of Zgoniga and Deljuan Robinson
3. his coach has referred to him needing to "figure out " practicing in the NFL
4. He was a 5th round pick to start with and barely made the team
5. 32 teams passed on him 4 times because he doesn't try


Here are some reasons he can't see the field. Now why don't you give us a few actual reasons that he SHOULD see the field other than "we don't know he's bad in practice."

[sinnister]

Originally Posted by barrett

1. he has played and not performed
2. he cannot get on the field ahead of Zgoniga and Deljuan Robinson
3. his coach has referred to him needing to "figure out " practicing in the NFL
4. He was a 5th round pick to start with and barely made the team
5. 32 teams passed on him 4 times because he doesn't try


Here are some reasons he can't see the field. Now why don't you give us a few actual reasons that he SHOULD see the field other than "we don't know he's bad in practice."

1. Since you know how many plays he has been on the field, how many has he played, and what was the outcome of each. Also, please note if he did what he was asked....for example, did he occupy blockers, etc. If you look back, he has not played a lot.

2. I gave you that reason. They are better at this stage.

3. You're right. He does have to figure things out. Most rookies do. That's not a shock. Glenn Dorsey evidently needs to figure things out right now as well. I can name a lot of DL who have been taken in the last few years who havent figured it out, but are getting better. No one debates this.

4. We don't know if he "barely made the team". The only thing here is that he was a 5th round pick.

5. 32 teams passed on Steve Slaton as well. They did it twice. 28 teams passed on Joe Montanna. This has nothing to do with anything. Okam may fail or he may not. We don't know. I do know that there is a MUCH greater chance that Frank Okam will be on the Houston Texans 5 years from now than Jeff Zgoniga. If we were still playing for the playoffs, fine. Once we are mathematically eliminated, we should be playing for the future. That is all I said.

[Arky]

Mr. Okam will be "active" for the game in Green Bay.

If Weaver can’t play, he will be replaced by DelJuan Robinson. Defensive tackle Frank Okam will be active as an added lineman.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...t/6148219.html

[barrett]

Originally Posted by sinnister

1. Since you know how many plays he has been on the field, how many has he played, and what was the outcome of each. Also, please note if he did what he was asked....for example, did he occupy blockers, etc. If you look back, he has not played a lot.

2. I gave you that reason. They are better at this stage.

3. You're right. He does have to figure things out. Most rookies do. That's not a shock. Glenn Dorsey evidently needs to figure things out right now as well. I can name a lot of DL who have been taken in the last few years who havent figured it out, but are getting better. No one debates this.

4. We don't know if he "barely made the team". The only thing here is that he was a 5th round pick.

5. 32 teams passed on Steve Slaton as well. They did it twice. 28 teams passed on Joe Montanna. This has nothing to do with anything. Okam may fail or he may not. We don't know. I do know that there is a MUCH greater chance that Frank Okam will be on the Houston Texans 5 years from now than Jeff Zgoniga. If we were still playing for the playoffs, fine. Once we are mathematically eliminated, we should be playing for the future. That is all I said.

thanks for all of that. Now go back and re-read my post. I asked you for reasons why Okam SHOULD play. The closest you came was he is young and we have a losing record.

Please anyone tell us why Okam SHOULD play. Anyone...

[sinnister]

Originally Posted by barrett

thanks for all of that. Now go back and re-read my post. I asked you for reasons why Okam SHOULD play. The closest you came was he is young and we have a losing record.

Please anyone tell us why Okam SHOULD play. Anyone...

I think I answered most of the reasons why he shouldnt play, which only one was valid. The only valid reason you gave is that he hasn't figured it out yet, and yes you are probably right. Where he was drafted has nothing to do with anything. The reason he should get some reps is to see if how he plays because of his age and talent. No one can tell you any other reason why he should play because there isnt any. I said that in the last post if you read it.

[HPF Bob]

Actually, where he was drafted does matter since teams will generally have more patience with players in the 1st and 2nd rounds to develop than they will guys taken in the 5-6-7 rounds. Realistically, Okam has two years to blossom or he'll probably be a camp cut in 2010.

[sinnister]

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

Actually, where he was drafted does matter since teams will generally have more patience with players in the 1st and 2nd rounds to develop than they will guys taken in the 5-6-7 rounds. Realistically, Okam has two years to blossom or he'll probably be a camp cut in 2010.

In this instance, I disagree with you Bob. Barrett said that a reason he shouldn't be playing is because he was drafted in the 5th round. That isn't a reason for him not to play; however, you are right about your statement as a whole. The lower one is drafted, the less time he has.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by sinnister

I think I answered most of the reasons why he shouldnt play, which only one was valid. The only valid reason you gave is that he hasn't figured it out yet, and yes you are probably right. Where he was drafted has nothing to do with anything. The reason he should get some reps is to see if how he plays because of his age and talent. No one can tell you any other reason why he should play because there isnt any. I said that in the last post if you read it.

That's my point. There is no reason for him to play. You cite age as your only reason, and yet we have three guys currently ahead of him who are 21,24,and 26. Which two of the these three young guys who have thus far outperformed him do you want to bench so Okam can play?

[sinnister]

Originally Posted by barrett

That's my point. There is no reason for him to play. You cite age as your only reason, and yet we have three guys currently ahead of him who are 21,24,and 26. Which two of the these three young guys who have thus far outperformed him do you want to bench so Okam can play?

Again, to outperform on the field, one has to play. Okam hasn't gotten the reps you are saying.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by sinnister

Again, to outperform on the field, one has to play. Okam hasn't gotten the reps you are saying.

Which of those three young guys do you want to take reps from?

Why do you think Deljuan Robinson currently gets reps and Okam doesn't?

[nero THE zero]

Originally Posted by sinnister

I think I answered most of the reasons why he shouldnt play, which only one was valid. The only valid reason you gave is that he hasn't figured it out yet, and yes you are probably right. Where he was drafted has nothing to do with anything. The reason he should get some reps is to see if how he plays because of his age and talent. No one can tell you any other reason why he should play because there isnt any. I said that in the last post if you read it.

Where he was drafted in this instance does matter because of the reason of where he was drafted.

If you're talking about a player that was drafted in the mid-late rounds because he was a productive college player with unspectacular size/measurables, or a player drafted in the mid-late rounds because he has an injury history, you might have a legitimate gripe in not giving him a shot on the field.

But, when you have a player who fell to the mid-late rounds because he has a history of being unmotivated, lazy, and taking plays off; and his coach says he's a long way away (re: lazy and unmotivated) and, thus, cannot get on the field; you have a player who's exhibiting the same flaws for which he fell in the draft and is undeserving of playing time.

Leave it to the UT homers to turn a 5th rounder into such a polarizing issue.

[idymoe]

Well, being a U of H grad, I'm certainly no UT homer. I like Kubiak as a coach, but he has demonstrated a lack of candor when he talks to the press. Mostly concerning injuries, but in other areas as well. Many times in the past years, the extent of players injuries has been noticeably worse than what he was leading the public to believe. Also, he has indicated that certain players would see more time on the field, but didn't follow through as we were led to believe. I think he also tries to play mind games with some of the players with his public statements. The first season or two, I took his statements at face value, but now, I don't. If he says an injured guy is day to day, I think "we'll see". If he says Molden is going to get a lot more base play on the field, I think, "we'll see". He has told us a few times that he should have played certain young players more. What stopped him?

At any rate, however he may rationalize his pt for Okam to the public, I can't take at face value. Maybe he's being 100% upfront about it, but how would I know?

I record and rewatch all the games. Okam has played very little. He was able to get push on passing plays and fairly well stood his ground on running plays. I didn't see any plays that made me say, "good god, get TJ back in there!" Okam is unique on the Texans D-line because of his size. I know he can't go all out every play. If he can go all out for only 6 plays in a row, for example, I would like to see him rotated in for those 6 plays. Robinson has been the only tackle that makes me happy when he is in. The rest have just been bodies. Okam has the potential to be more than just a body. I would like to see him get some snaps every game.

[sinnister]

[QUOTE=idymoe;6035

I record and rewatch all the games. Okam has played very little. He was able to get push on passing plays and fairly well stood his ground on running plays. I didn't see any plays that made me say, "good god, get TJ back in there!" Okam is unique on the Texans D-line because of his size. I know he can't go all out every play. If he can go all out for only 6 plays in a row, for example, I would like to see him rotated in for those 6 plays. Robinson has been the only tackle that makes me happy when he is in. The rest have just been bodies. Okam has the potential to be more than just a body. I would like to see him get some snaps every game.[/QUOTE]


Thank you!!

[sinnister]

Originally Posted by nero THE zero

Leaving it to the UT homers to turn a 5th rounder into such a polarizing issue.

Not a UT person. I was born in Houston, always rooted for the Oilers/Texans. I live in Louisiana.