Official Texans @ Jaguars Game Thread, 10/18/2015

[Keith]

Originally Posted by WMH

Definitely didn't see anything from Bortles to make we desire a swap for him a Clowney. He made some really stupid decisions, and likely cost his team a W. We have enough of that here already.

Bortles looked like a turd, but don't underestimate how crappy his tutelage has been in Jacksonville. Could be homerism, but I think O'Brien has better success with Bortles. Who was the last young QB the Jags ever matriculated? And do the Jags have any running game whatsoever, much less someone as talented as Arian Foster to help?

The Jags are in year 2 of developing their rookie QB, and they'll be in year 3 when the Texans will likely be starting over in 2016. And that extra time makes a difference... Bortles TD-INT ratio has flipped since his rookie year, from 11:17 to 13:7 after yesterday.

And I'll just leave this here:

Games played
Clowney - 9
Bortles - 20

Point isn't about Bortles specifically. The point is the Texans completely ignored the QB position when taking Clowney in the 2014 draft when they should have taken their favorite QB before the 4th round. Bortles is imperfect. His passing accuracy seems to be his biggest failing. But yeah, I'd rather have Year 2 Bortles than Year 2 Clowney.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Keith

Bortles looked like a turd, but don't underestimate how crappy his tutelage has been in Jacksonville. Could be homerism, but I think O'Brien has better success with Bortles. Who was the last young QB the Jags ever matriculated? And do the Jags have any running game whatsoever, much less someone as talented as Arian Foster to help?

The Jags are in year 2 of developing their rookie QB, and they'll be in year 3 when the Texans will likely be starting over in 2016. And that extra time makes a difference... Bortles TD-INT ratio has flipped since his rookie year, from 11:17 to 13:7 after yesterday.

And I'll just leave this here:

Games played
Clowney - 9
Bortles - 20

Point isn't about Bortles specifically. The point is the Texans completely ignored the QB position when taking Clowney in the 2014 draft when they should have taken their favorite QB before the 4th round. Bortles is imperfect. His passing accuracy seems to be his biggest failing. But yeah, I'd rather have Year 2 Bortles than Year 2 Clowney.

I'd rather have unnamed QB in year 2 than Clowney (Carr, Bridgewater, even Manziel). But Bortles is awful. He had 3 INTs yesterday plus 1 cancelled by a bogus penalty, a few others thrown to defenders and dropped, and about 4 passes he just lofted up into play as some kind of cross between a throw away and an attempt at a pass. That is more than bad tutelage. He was a workout warrior who looked good in shorts and never belonged in the 1st round. O'Brien may have worked miracles here with Fitzpatrick, Mallett, Savage, and Hoyer, but even the great BOB could not make chicken salad out of Bortles.

[WMH]

Originally Posted by Keith

Bortles looked like a turd, but don't underestimate how crappy his tutelage has been in Jacksonville. Could be homerism, but I think O'Brien has better success with Bortles. Who was the last young QB the Jags ever matriculated? And do the Jags have any running game whatsoever, much less someone as talented as Arian Foster to help?

The Jags are in year 2 of developing their rookie QB, and they'll be in year 3 when the Texans will likely be starting over in 2016. And that extra time makes a difference... Bortles TD-INT ratio has flipped since his rookie year, from 11:17 to 13:7 after yesterday.

And I'll just leave this here:

Games played
Clowney - 9
Bortles - 20

Point isn't about Bortles specifically. The point is the Texans completely ignored the QB position when taking Clowney in the 2014 draft when they should have taken their favorite QB before the 4th round. Bortles is imperfect. His passing accuracy seems to be his biggest failing. But yeah, I'd rather have Year 2 Bortles than Year 2 Clowney.

Understand your point of view, but don't agree with it. I don't think you pick a top end QB just because. Clowney was (allegedly) a once in a blue moon prospect. He has shown some flashes of his physical ability when he's played. He's had some pretty crappy luck, none of which could have been known at draft time. He's basically a rookie. If he can ever stay healthy, an that's obviously a big IF, he has the potential to be a stud.

Don't get me wrong, it sucks not having a franchise QB. This is a QB driven league, and until we fall into one, its going to be a scramble. But so far, the only potential miss I've seen from OB's QB crop from the last couple of drafts might be Carr, and that's the best of whats available. The rest look mediocre, guys that will hang in the league for a couple of years and eventually get a coach fired.

[Keith]

FWIW, I keep using Bortles in these posts since he was the first QB taken when Clowney was picked, and the Texans were rumored to have interest in Bortles in a trade down scenario that never materialized. Personally, I was in favor of Bridgewater in the first round of all the QBs available.

Originally Posted by WMH

I don't think you pick a top end QB just because.

The David Carr vs. Julius Peppers and the Vince Young vs. Mario Williams debates definitely support that. In both of those scenarios the DE was better than the top QB taken, and the selections of Carr and Young arguably set both franchises back years.

But 2014 is different from 2002 and 2006, and even if you didn't like the first QB selected, the reality is this:

Originally Posted by WMH

This is a QB driven league

Kinda like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, at the base of the NFL version of this pyramid is a franchise QB. Sucks you need a QB to win in this league, but with all of the rule changes to promote offense, this is more true now than it even was in 2002 and 2006.

Originally Posted by WMH

The rest look mediocre, guys that will hang in the league for a couple of years and eventually get a coach fired.

Mallett and Hoyer are doing a fine job helping O'Brien inch closer to being fired, especially if the solution in 2016 is still to use the draft to find the QB needed to be successful.

[WMH]

Originally Posted by Keith

Mallett and Hoyer are doing a fine job helping O'Brien inch closer to being fired, especially if the solution in 2016 is still to use the draft to find the QB needed to be successful.

Whether or not he did it consciously, O'Brien has added a couple of years to his coaching window in Houston by not reaching for a QB the last 2 drafts. He's plea to ownership "I haven't found my QB yet." Now, assuming he picks one up in the '16 draft, he's on the clock. He's got another 2-3 years to either win, or find the hot seat. We all know that our owner is a painfully patient man, so there is no reason to assume that won't be how it will play out.

Capers - Clock started ticking from day 1 after they drafted Carr. Carr cratered, Capers toast.
Kubiak - Clock started ticking after they traded for Schaub. Schaub cratered, Kubiak.
OB - TBD.

Once they "commit" to a QB, time starts running. Why would they not delay as much as they can?

[Keith]

Originally Posted by WMH

O'Brien has added a couple of years to his coaching window in Houston by not reaching for a QB the last 2 drafts.

Speculation. Ever patient, McNair's history suggests he gives his head coaches at least four seasons. So O'Brien only has 2 years from whatever point he picks a QB then? Huh?

Originally Posted by WMH

He's plea to ownership "I haven't found my QB yet."

O'Brien has in fact said the opposite. Remember his rant in training camp?

Originally Posted by WMH

Now, assuming he picks one up in the '16 draft, he's on the clock. He's got another 2-3 years to either win, or find the hot seat.

He's probably had this same 4-5 year window since he hired. Problem now is his rookie QB better produce by year 2 (i.e. 2017!!) rather than be entering 2016 with a rookie of his choosing going into his third year.

O'Brien has a better chance resetting his hot seat clock with a new GM, thereby placing the blame on the talent selection. It'd be a good play since he took the crap inherited from Kubiak to go 9-7 with four different QBs.

[WMH]

Originally Posted by Keith

Speculation. Ever patient, McNair's history suggests he gives his head coaches at least four seasons. So O'Brien only has 2 years from whatever point he picks a QB then? Huh?

O'Brien has in fact said the opposite. Remember his rant in training camp?

He's probably had this same 4-5 year window since he hired. Problem now is his rookie QB better produce by year 2 (i.e. 2017!!) rather than be entering 2016 with a rookie of his choosing going into his third year.

O'Brien has a better chance resetting his hot seat clock with a new GM, thereby placing the blame on the talent selection. It'd be a good play since he took the crap inherited from Kubiak to go 9-7 with four different QBs.

I'm not crafty enough to do your quotes like that. That's nifty.

I said that if he doesn't win, his seat will start getting hot 2 years after QB hitch. That's my opinion.
I don't put alot of stock into anything he says to the media. What's he supposed so say? "I'm not a real big fan of either of these guys, but its the best of the scrap heap so we'll see what happens."
Don't see a new GM being an issue, in either direction. If Smith gets canned, O'Brien is just as likely to get more power than we are to get a decent GM.

[Arky]

Originally Posted by WMH

I'm not crafty enough to do your quotes like that. That's nifty.....

That's just "quote tags".

Use "quote" and "/quote" - with both surrounded by brackets. Use "(/quote)" to end a quote and start your text. Use "(quote)" to start the other person's text again and "(/quote)" to end it. But use brackets instead of the parenthesis... And then hit the "edit" button if you mess it up....

Hope that makes sense.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by WMH

Once they "commit" to a QB, time starts running. Why would they not delay as much as they can?

Because they wanted to win football games?

I think the way O'Brien played it is not a terrible way to stay employed in the short/medium term, but he probably didn't need to worry about that with McNair anyways. Going through two full offseasons without addressing the QB position is about as smart as running the swinging gate on a fake punt and then snapping the ball when you fail to get the alignment you need.

Forget Bortles/Manziel/Bridgewater vs Clowney. Maybe our guys loved the hype on Clowney. But what about Carr vs Su'a Filo? These idiots could have taken a chance on a competent QB and a price that does not lock you into the guy for years, and instead they took a guard. Even if the QB sucks and the guard can play that's stupid. When you don't have a QB you buy as many lottery tickets as you can.

Instead under O'Brien we have looked at the unquestioned most important position on the field for two years, and invested the following, a comp 4th. That is either incompetence through arrogance or incompetence through stupidity.

[chuck]

Ah thank we hayav three outSTANding quatabacks awn the rostah.

[WMH]

Originally Posted by barrett

Forget Bortles/Manziel/Bridgewater vs Clowney. Maybe our guys loved the hype on Clowney. But what about Carr vs Su'a Filo? These idiots could have taken a chance on a competent QB and a price that does not lock you into the guy for years, and instead they took a guard. Even if the QB sucks and the guard can play that's stupid. When you don't have a QB you buy as many lottery tickets as you can.

Now this is definitely a head scratcher. Only thing I can think of is that it was political based on the history with David, which is the stupidest thing to do.