Official Texans @ Steelers Game Thread, 10/20/2014

[Keith]

Originally Posted by popanot

It's basically a season lost, IMO, and the Texans are choosing it to be this way.

We all knew this was going to be a lost season given the lack of talent at QB... can't roll with Fitzy as your starter and expect to add a Lombardi to your trophy mantle.

The main problem is that by punting the QB need this year, the team pushed off likely another lost year next year, too. How will the Texans get better at QB in the next offseason? Drafting a rookie? Well that should pay immediate dividends, right?

No. So even if this is an 8-8 team in 2014, I'm not entirely sure how much better the team will be in 2015. Their key vets are a year older (Foster, Andre, JJo, etc), and they'll be playing a likely tougher 2nd place schedule, too.

[popanot]

Originally Posted by Keith

We all knew this was going to be a lost season given the lack of talent at QB... can't roll with Fitzy as your starter and expect to add a Lombardi to your trophy mantle.

I didn't expect a Lombardi regardless of who was at QB this year. That is, unless they somehow magically cloned P. Manning. Lost season to me is choosing to continue to roll with Fitzy and possibly others who have zero future with this franchise. It's time to throw in the towel and evaluate Mallett and/or Savage, play Posey and whoever else on the roster our idiot GM drafted or traded for and move forward or backwards. At least we'll know if these guys have starter potential, are career backups, or need to be tossed in the trash. In addition, it'll expose our GM for what he is.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by barrett

Harvin is the least field stretching WR in the NFL. He does not even run deep routes. He has 22 catches for 130 yards (a bad YPC for a RB). He is incredibly fast, but they deploy that speed to horizontally stretch the defense. I cannot recall seeing him actually go deep, and he really didn't for Minnesota either.

May be but if so that's on Seattle (and Minny). Take a couple minutes to check out Harvins highlites in college at FLA: yes he was a tremendous rusher, but he also caught his share of balls on vertical routes for some other big plays, and we know that Wilson can throw a deep ball. So if the Seahawks didn't trot their sub 10.5 100 meter receiver out wide and run some fly-patters to stretch the field out, it's on them. That'd be like having Usain Bolt on your Track team and not entering him in the sprints.

Originally Posted by barrett

But AJ does not fit what Seattle does. They don't like to traditional drop back pass. AJ needs to be with a QB that takes his drop and puts the ball where AJ will catch it. Not a guy who throws screens, read option hot routes, wheel routes, and scramble drill balls.

You obviously know the Seattle offense better than I do, so you are pretty confidant that they couldn't use a big physical WR with excellent hands who has moderate speed and can bloc well ?

[Arky]

Texans look to be a 1 pt favorite at Tennessee this Sunday...

[nunusguy]

AJ wanted to continue getting paid well, actually very well, like he had in the past all the while on the Texans' payroll. If the man wanted to leave the Texans organization that badly, all he had to do was forgo some compensation.

[popanot]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

AJ wanted to continue getting paid well, actually very well, like he had in the past all the while on the Texans' payroll. If the man wanted to leave the Texans organization that badly, all he had to do was forgo some compensation.

Come on. This is the NFL where the financial lifeline can stop at the drop of the hat and most careers are short. Now way anyone should question the money these guys make as long as someone is willing to pay it. You don't take money off the table if you're a player. AJ got paid because he produced, not because he twisted anyone's arm or forced their hand. He deserved to get paid like a top echelon player should. Other than this summer where there were rumors of him being unhappy (and rightfully so, IMO), he has been the consummate professional and given this franchise and community everything he has. I think it's time the franchise grants his wish if he still wants out and they can work a deal. I'll root for him 100%.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by popanot

Come on. This is the NFL where the financial lifeline can stop at the drop of the hat and most careers are short. Now way anyone should question the money these guys make as long as someone is willing to pay it. You don't take money off the table if you're a player. AJ got paid because he produced, not because he twisted anyone's arm or forced their hand. He deserved to get paid like a top echelon player should. Other than this summer where there were rumors of him being unhappy (and rightfully so, IMO), he has been the consummate professional and given this franchise and community everything he has. I think it's time the franchise grants his wish if he still wants out and they can work a deal. I'll root for him 100%.

I too would root for him 100 %. Truth is part of me really would like to see him go to Seattle or New England or Green Bay or someplace that's got an outstanding QB and is also a bona fide contender. Texans aren't going anywhere in post season anytime soon and I'd like to root for a team who's also got a player I follow. And it could maybe happen, but Andre would have to make a bigger monetary accommodation than the Texans or any potential third-party if there's any chance of it really happening.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

May be but if so that's on Seattle (and Minny). Take a couple minutes to check out Harvins highlites in college at FLA: yes he was a tremendous rusher, but he also caught his share of balls on vertical routes for some other big plays, and we know that Wilson can throw a deep ball. So if the Seahawks didn't trot their sub 10.5 100 meter receiver out wide and run some fly-patters to stretch the field out, it's on them. That'd be like having Usain Bolt on your Track team and not entering him in the sprints.

You obviously know the Seattle offense better than I do, so you are pretty confidant that they couldn't use a big physical WR with excellent hands who has moderate speed and can bloc well ?

They just certainly use Andre (anyone could). But they obviously prefer jitter bug types who can win battles in the space Russell Wilson creates. Wilson very rarely throws timing routes (AJ specialty). They let Golden Tate walk so they could pay Percy Harvin far more money. Which of those guys does AJ play more like? Is any WR on that team known for size, hands, or route running? So maybe they could use him in the abstract, but everything about their roster says they would not go near him if we called.

As for Harvin, I am sure he did go deep in College. Lots of guys do lots of things in college. I am not waiting on Keenum to orchestrate a 50 ppg offense based on what he did in college, and I am not basing what Harvin does in the NFL on what he did at Florida. I will look at Harvin's not inconsiderable NFL career for how to judge his ability to stetch the field. The evidence says he averages 11 YPC in his career and much of that is YAC. He is basically a fast Wes Welker who has mysterious migraines that allow him to miss practice whenever he feels like it.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Keith

We all knew this was going to be a lost season given the lack of talent at QB... can't roll with Fitzy as your starter and expect to add a Lombardi to your trophy mantle.

The main problem is that by punting the QB need this year, the team pushed off likely another lost year next year, too. How will the Texans get better at QB in the next offseason? Drafting a rookie? Well that should pay immediate dividends, right?

No. So even if this is an 8-8 team in 2014, I'm not entirely sure how much better the team will be in 2015. Their key vets are a year older (Foster, Andre, JJo, etc), and they'll be playing a likely tougher 2nd place schedule, too.

That is my main issue. Punting on this season would have been ok by itself. This year has lots of dead money, roster turnover from system switches, and purging of the Kubiak taint. But now we are staring at a rookie QB next year or another cast off in the Fitzy mold.

It is great that McNair is patient, but the knowledge you'll probably get 5 years even if you are terrible means O'Brien could throw away 2+ seasons on a rebuild in a league where worst to first happens every year.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by barrett

He is basically a fast Wes Welker who has mysterious migraines that allow him to miss practice whenever he feels like it.

Yes he is, he's a really, really fast freakin Wes Welker isn't he.
The only other thing I would add is that there's a reason the fastest guys in the NFL are wide-outs (and the corners who have to cover them), so it's puzzling that an NFL team wouldn't take advantage of that most most valuable trait given the opportunity.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

Yes he is, he's a really, really fast freakin Wes Welker isn't he.
The only other thing I would add is that there's a reason the fastest guys in the NFL are wide-outs (and the corners who have to cover them), so it's puzzling that an NFL team wouldn't take advantage of that most most valuable trait given the opportunity.

I agree. It is puzzling they turned a thoroughbred into a plow horse. Unfortunately for Percy, I doubt the Jets are the ones to get the most out of him.

[WMH]

Originally Posted by popanot

Because he's put his time into this mess of a franchise. Sure he's gotten paid well, but IMO, he deserves better and they should look at moving him out of respect. Look at it like SF trading Montana. Yes, SF had Young, and there were various reasons behind it, but they moved Montana mostly out of respect.

As for what to do with AJ's WR position, put in Posey and see what you have. Not that any QB on the roster could get him the ball consistently...

You're mixing business and pleasure. The NFL is a business. There may have been a handful of "good" gestures performed in the league the last 50+ years, but that number is painfully small. The Texans owe Dre nothing more than his paycheck. If the time comes where his trade value/earnings exceeds his play, I absolutely expect him to get moved. Till then, he's the property of the team. There are 32 jobs at various levels within the league. You don't keep your job very long by trading away one of your only offensive weapons because you suck and he's a good guy. Just doesn't work that way.

[Arky]

Posey. Now, there's a mystery.

I have a feeling he's been doghoused for some reason. Maybe he and OB just aren't on the same page..... OB was asked about him today (heard on the radio) and he said something along the lines of practicing well/making progress but it's a real mystery why he isn't seeing any action. Seems like he's getting set up to be one of those guys the Texans ignore and eventually moves on to a team where he becomes a starter and produces.....

[Warren]

Originally Posted by Arky

Posey. Now, there's a mystery.

I have a feeling he's been doghoused for some reason. Maybe he and OB just aren't on the same page..... OB was asked about him today (heard on the radio) and he said something along the lines of practicing well/making progress but it's a real mystery why he isn't seeing any action. Seems like he's getting set up to be one of those guys the Texans ignore and eventually moves on to a team where he becomes a starter and produces.....

I'd like to see him too. They've said before that it's just a numbers thing -- so far in each game they've only had four active WRs (Andre, Hopkins, D. Johnson, and Martin). With them going with so few WRs, the fact that Posey isn't a returner (unlike D. Johnson and Martin) seems to really work against him getting to suit up on gameday.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Warren

I'd like to see him too. They've said before that it's just a numbers thing -- so far in each game they've only had four active WRs (Andre, Hopkins, D. Johnson, and Martin). With them going with so few WRs, the fact that Posey isn't a returner (unlike D. Johnson and Martin) seems to really work against him getting to suit up on gameday.

But Posey was great in ST coverage last year. I agree there must be something more.

[popanot]

Originally Posted by WMH

You don't keep your job very long by trading away one of your only offensive weapons because you suck and he's a good guy. Just doesn't work that way.

Most of what we talk about on this board is hypothetical. Of course it's not going to happen. Not only because the NFL is set in their ways and makes it almost impossible to make such a trade, but because our owner and GM are idiots who rarely get anything right. AJ could conceivably bring decent value in perhaps a young prospect either in a player or pick, but knowing this franchise and the people in charge, they'd likely just screw up a trade and/or the product in return. With Bob McNair, people keep their jobs far too long for lousy coaching, lousy drafts, lousy FA signings and lousy contracts, so I highly doubt a trade would change anything as far as anyone's job status.

[popanot]

I also heard the comment that DJohnson and Martin were active because of their return skills. Yet, they had Manning back there on KR's fumbling and bumbling around throughout the whole PITT game.

[popanot]

Speaking of GM's: Top 5 Candidates

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/...andidates.html

But Bob will probably consult with Reeves since he's been so connected to the game.