Freeman: Would you?

[Nconroe]

Just exhange Freeman and Schaub straight up now or end of season?

Not saying I would do that but I guess some one.

[chuck]

It was entertaining to read through that old thread. Joshua was annoyed by the hire because the team didn't seem to consider or interview anyone other than Wade. That seems like a reasonable position to take. I was annoyed because I thought it was largely a PR move, which it was, and because I just sort of generally like being annoyed. I wanted a younger DC who'd bring in new ideas and so on but it would be unreasonably churlish of me to ignore the fact that today's defense despite its several problems is playing very well.

I did mention my conviction that the team would not win with Kubiak as head coach. I have surely remained consistent in that regard.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by chuck

It was entertaining to read through that old thread. Joshua was annoyed by the hire because the team didn't seem to consider or interview anyone other than Wade. That seems like a reasonable position to take. I was annoyed because I thought it was largely a PR move, which it was, and because I just sort of generally like being annoyed. I wanted a younger DC who'd bring in new ideas and so on but it would be unreasonably churlish of me to ignore the fact that today's defense despite its several problems is playing very well.

I did mention my conviction that the team would not win with Kubiak as head coach. I have surely remained consistent in that regard.

Yes, Joshua's concern was very reasonable. I think it was right too, even though Wade has obviously worked out very well. But he definitely considered the Wade hire just like the Bush hire in how it happened. Kubiak stumbled into a stupid hire and a great one, luck of the draw I guess. Either way both hires are on him/Smith.

And you have been constant (and constantly correct) in declaring we would not win with Kubiak. I still think a strong personality at QB could make up for the nice guy issues with Kubiak (like Cushing does for Wade, the defense without him is not close to the same, he may be as valuable as JJ). I have no problem replacing Kubiak at the same time as Schaub and would do it that way if I was in charge. For continuity's sake (because we are close), I would be ok with dumping Schaub and giving Kubiak a year with a new QB. That is the other reason Freeman appeals to me more than a rookie. Rookie QBs for veteran coaches are usually about prolonging their own time since they can call for patience with the rookie. I don't want a rookie so we need 3 more years to evaluate what we already know about Kubs. Honestly if we could get a proven winner who wanted to come here and was the missing piece at QB that would be ideal. Of course when will that ever happen (Peyton Manning who we stupidly turned away).

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by barrett

Yes, Joshua's concern was very reasonable. I think it was right too, even though Wade has obviously worked out very well. But he definitely considered the Wade hire just like the Bush hire in how it happened. Kubiak stumbled into a stupid hire and a great one, luck of the draw I guess. Either way both hires are on him/Smith.

And you have been constant (and constantly correct) in declaring we would not win with Kubiak. I still think a strong personality at QB could make up for the nice guy issues with Kubiak (like Cushing does for Wade, the defense without him is not close to the same, he may be as valuable as JJ). I have no problem replacing Kubiak at the same time as Schaub and would do it that way if I was in charge. For continuity's sake (because we are close), I would be ok with dumping Schaub and giving Kubiak a year with a new QB. That is the other reason Freeman appeals to me more than a rookie. Rookie QBs for veteran coaches are usually about prolonging their own time since they can call for patience with the rookie. I don't want a rookie so we need 3 more years to evaluate what we already know about Kubs. Honestly if we could get a proven winner who wanted to come here and was the missing piece at QB that would be ideal. Of course when will that ever happen (Peyton Manning who we stupidly turned away).

At the time, I was more concerned with the lack of due diligence by the team as a whole. Not sure it even occurred to me at the time to try and divide up responsibility for this between McNair and Kubiak. I honestly don't recall but I think I simply lumped them together because I wasn't really thinking of it in those terms at that time.

Regardless, I still think a reasonable person could conclude that Kubiak was primarily responsible for Bush's hire and McNair was primarily responsible for Wade's, which was the initial argument.

Now quit digging up old posts of mine and trying to make me look bad!

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Joshua

At the time, I was more concerned with the lack of due diligence by the team as a whole. Not sure it even occurred to me at the time to try and divide up responsibility for this between McNair and Kubiak. I honestly don't recall but I think I simply lumped them together because I wasn't really thinking of it in those terms at that time.

Regardless, I still think a reasonable person could conclude that Kubiak was primarily responsible for Bush's hire and McNair was primarily responsible for Wade's, which was the initial argument.

Now quit digging up old posts of mine and trying to make me look bad!

I think it's far more likely that Kubiak was forced into firing his DC than McNair was picking the replacement. I don't think McNair is hands on in those ways. I think the most likely scenario is Kubiak is forced into a move, Phillips is his kind of guy (they run in the same same good old boy, nice guy circle, plus a resume that easily justifies the hire and makes Kubiak think its a good one), and a hire ensues with no other candidates. Kubiak uses the same process (hiring guys he knows), and this time is fortunate to have a guy who takes care of that side of the ball and is unlikely to ever leave for a HC gig.

[popanot]

Originally Posted by barrett;

(Peyton Manning who we stupidly turned away).

As I recall the Texans hands were tied due to the salary cap and they couldn't afford Manning. It sure would've been interesting had they brought him in, tho. Considering Kubiak's stubbornness with not allowing his QB to audible, I'm curious how that would've worked out with Manning. You know darn well Manning would have a huge problem with that and part of me thinks he ultimately would've decided not to come here once he had a true sit down discussion with Kubiak. Manning really went to the ideal situation with Fox.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by popanot

As I recall the Texans hands were tied due to the salary cap and they couldn't afford Manning. It sure would've been interesting had they brought him in, tho. Considering Kubiak's stubbornness with not allowing his QB to audible, I'm curious how that would've worked out with Manning. You know darn well Manning would have a huge problem with that and part of me thinks he ultimately would've decided not to come here once he had a true sit down discussion with Kubiak. Manning really went to the ideal situation with Fox.

You raise good points about how well Manning would have meshed with Kubiak. However, I think the salary cap thing was overblown. Teams always find a way when they really want a guy. Schaub was close to 15 mill as best I can recall those last couple years of his first deal, and since he only had a couple years left, the dead money from cutting him wouldn't have been awful. With some creative accounting, cutting Schaub and probably another big money contract (OD, Antonio), I suspect they could have made it work.

[cadams]

Originally Posted by popanot

As I recall the Texans hands were tied due to the salary cap and they couldn't afford Manning. It sure would've been interesting had they brought him in, tho. Considering Kubiak's stubbornness with not allowing his QB to audible, I'm curious how that would've worked out with Manning. You know darn well Manning would have a huge problem with that and part of me thinks he ultimately would've decided not to come here once he had a true sit down discussion with Kubiak. Manning really went to the ideal situation with Fox.

just my opinion, but i think that even if there weren't cap issues, kubiak would have been against manning coming here, and would have blocked it. as you note, kubiak wants to control the offense to a fault. manning would not have gone along with that, and that would have been an argument kubiak would have lost if manning was signed.

[Nconroe]

We don't really know what Kubiak would do if he had a QB like Manning, just speculate.

At the time Manning was still not fully recovered from 3 surgeries, one had to worry if Manning could come back and if he would be reinjured.

Now we know.

[barrett]

Freeman has been cut. He is collecting his full $8 million salary from Tampa. I would absolutely acquire him for no cost and limited salary so we get a 3 month in house audition (and legitimate alternative to Schaub).

[popanot]

Originally Posted by Nconroe

Just exhange Freeman and Schaub straight up now or end of season?

Not saying I would do that but I guess some one.

Tampa is free and clear of Freeman's contract after the season so I doubt they'd want to take on Schaub's crazy contract. I wish a Freeman trade would happen, but no way this franchise makes a bold move at QB (at least not until it's too late). Unfortunately, we're stuck with Schaub until he gets hurt (not wishing that on him, mind you), the season is lost, his contract ends or gets convenient to eat, or the boob HC is gone.

[chuck]

Originally Posted by popanot

Tampa is free and clear of Freeman's contract after the season so I doubt they'd want to take on Schaub's crazy contract. I wish a Freeman trade would happen, but no way this franchise makes a bold move at QB (at least not until it's too late). Unfortunately, we're stuck with Schaub until he gets hurt (not wishing that on him, mind you), the season is lost, his contract ends or gets convenient to eat, or the boob HC is gone.

This reminds me of something that I was thinking about last night. I think it is very likely that Schaub gets hurt this year. Even with Duane Brown healthy the line is an issue. Anyway, if he does get hurt I certainly hope it happens on the road because to see (and hear) home fans cheer their quarterback's injury would be just about the ugliest thing I can think of.

[HPF Bob]

Originally Posted by chuck

This reminds me of something that I was thinking about last night. I think it is very likely that Schaub gets hurt this year. Even with Duane Brown healthy the line is an issue. Anyway, if he does get hurt I certainly hope it happens on the road because to see (and hear) home fans cheer their quarterback's injury would be just about the ugliest thing I can think of.

Ask Mrs. David Carr...

[popanot]

Originally Posted by chuck

Anyway, if he does get hurt I certainly hope it happens on the road because to see (and hear) home fans cheer their quarterback's injury would be just about the ugliest thing I can think of.

I agree. This is never acceptable whether it's a hometown player or an opponent. I think the fans burning Schaub's jersey is a pretty a-hole thing to do too. I mean gripe all you want but it should never get personal like that.

[Nconroe]

Sounds like Tampa actively shopping Freeman now if interested.