Texans FA's

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by Keith

Because the #s add up fast.

Schaub - $10.95M
Joseph - $9.75M
Andre (pre-restructure) - $8.84M
Ninja - $8.8M
Foster - $7.9M
Manning - $5M
Walter - $3.5M
Cushing - $3.28M
Jacoby - Don't remember.
Duane - Don't remember.
Daniels - Don't remember.

This is probably ~$70 million or so. Leaves $50 million for the other 40 in the top 51. It goes fast.

ETA - The real problem at this point is Schaub's #. He is in the final year now, a perfect time to extend if the Texans are REALLY committed to the guy, i.e. not just Bob McNair giving us all lip service like he did this week when addressing Peyton rumors. If Bob really loved Schaub as much as he said, they would have extended his contract by now.

I get the arithmetic. And I'm not trying to bust your chops and I appreciate your responses. My point is just that I think they have potentially mismanaged the cap if half their top 12 players are underpaid yet we're still too cap strapped to even attempt to retain the few who are reaching free agency.

Every team in the league deals with the same cap. Apparently, we're in one of the worst cap shapes of any team in the league despite the bargains we're currently enjoying with Brown, Watt, Barwin, Reed, Cushing, Quin, etc.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Joshua

I get the arithmetic. And I'm not trying to bust your chops and I appreciate your responses. My point is just that I think they have potentially mismanaged the cap if half their top 12 players are underpaid yet we're still too cap strapped to even attempt to retain the few who are reaching free agency.

Every team in the league deals with the same cap. Apparently, we're in one of the worst cap shapes of any team in the league despite the bargains we're currently enjoying with Brown, Watt, Barwin, Reed, Cushing, Quin, etc.

So two points... first, who's underpaid? Just the guys still playing their rookie contracts? That's pretty good actually. And second, pity the Texans for having so many of their draft picks live up to and exceed their draft expectations. It's a good problem to have.

So how have they mismanaged the cap? Compared to the latter half of the Casserly years, this administration has done really well. The Texans just have a lot of players on the payroll who are actually earning what they are getting paid. It finally paid off in the win column last season as well.

Just checked, the sky is not falling.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Keith

So two points... first, who's underpaid? Just the guys still playing their rookie contracts? That's pretty good actually. And second, pity the Texans for having so many of their draft picks live up to and exceed their draft expectations. It's a good problem to have.

So how have they mismanaged the cap? Compared to the latter half of the Casserly years, this administration has done really well. The Texans just have a lot of players on the payroll who are actually earning what they are getting paid. It finally paid off in the win column last season as well.

Just checked, the sky is not falling.

Exactly. When you successfully create one of the most talented rosters, you are going to have one of the most expensive. It is why teams like Indy and NE have bled talent for years. It is far harder to stay talented than to get talented.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by Keith

So two points... first, who's underpaid? Just the guys still playing their rookie contracts? That's pretty good actually. And second, pity the Texans for having so many of their draft picks live up to and exceed their draft expectations. It's a good problem to have.

So how have they mismanaged the cap? Compared to the latter half of the Casserly years, this administration has done really well. The Texans just have a lot of players on the payroll who are actually earning what they are getting paid. It finally paid off in the win column last season as well.

Just checked, the sky is not falling.

First, I, of course, agree that having your rookies work out is great and I never suggested otherwise (something I pretty sure you understood). However, if all of your best players are your draft picks and you're currently getting them at a discount, this should suggest that you should not be one of the worst cap teams in the league. A healthy cap should be one of the fruits of your labors.

As for who is underpaid, as I said above, I think about half of our top 12 players are underpaid, several vastly so. When half of your best 12 players are underpaid and several other important pieces are set to be free agents shortly and you're up against the cap, I think that suggests a problem. Your mileage may vary.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Joshua

First, I, of course, agree that having your rookies work out is great and I never suggested otherwise (something I pretty sure you understood). However, if all of your best players are your draft picks and you're currently getting them at a discount, this should suggest that you should not be one of the worst cap teams in the league. A healthy cap should be one of the fruits of your labors.

As for who is underpaid, as I said above, I think about half of our top 12 players are underpaid, several vastly so. When half of your best 12 players are underpaid and several other important pieces are set to be free agents shortly and you're up against the cap, I think that suggests a problem. Your mileage may vary.

I think the point missed here is that the Texans now have MORE than a typical number of players that are deserving of what they are paid (or to your point, what they ought to be paid soon).

I mean, have the Texans had such an abundance of talent in which we could easily rattle off their best 12 players before? The Texans have one of the deepest rosters in the entire league now. "Next man up" wasn't just a cool saying last season.

A healthy cap is NOT one of the fruits of your labors. In fact, making difficult cap-related decisions is such a fruit of these labors (or instead maybe a vegetable in this analogy). Good, nay great, teams have had to say goodbye to their talent bearing these fruits.

[chuck]

I think it's pretty clear that the team feels it has a replacement for Winston on the roster yet they do not believe they have a third #2 receiver on the roster. I expect they will look to address that via the draft and once they do we can say goodbye to Jacoby and maybe Walter as well although I expect that at the end of the day they'll keep Walter.

[Nconroe]

If all these FA leave do we get compensatory draft picks like Patriots always did?

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by Nconroe

If all these FA leave do we get compensatory draft picks like Patriots always did?

That depends on how many FAs we sign, and it depends, IIRC, on if the guys replacing the FA that left was from our roster or signed from someone else's roster.

[WMH]

Originally Posted by Nconroe

If all these FA leave do we get compensatory draft picks like Patriots always did?

There is some goofy formula they use. No one has ever been able to explain it to me. As point of reference, I think we got a 7th for DRob. Mario "might" be a 4th, but as stated, depends on replacement signings.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by Keith

I think the point missed here is that the Texans now have MORE than a typical number of players that are deserving of what they are paid (or to your point, what they ought to be paid soon).

I mean, have the Texans had such an abundance of talent in which we could easily rattle off their best 12 players before? The Texans have one of the deepest rosters in the entire league now. "Next man up" wasn't just a cool saying last season.

A healthy cap is NOT one of the fruits of your labors. In fact, making difficult cap-related decisions is such a fruit of these labors (or instead maybe a vegetable in this analogy). Good, nay great, teams have had to say goodbye to their talent bearing these fruits.

We've probably taken this about as far as it needs to go, but I'll just add that I agree with almost everything you say here, but that it misses the point I was trying to make. The Texans do have a fair amount of talent now and do have a bunch of guys that will expect to get paid in the near future. I also agree that good teams with lots of talent will ultimately get poached by other teams and eventually tough cap decisions will have to be made. I dispute none of this. The question is when this happens. I see no reason why we should be in this situation now, although I acknowledge that if we continue to be successful, it will be a situation that will arise in the coming years.

As you mentioned the Colts and the Patriots, these are teams that maintained ridiculously high levels of success for the better part of a decade. We've had one good year. If this offseason followed our 3rd 12+ win season, then, yeah, hanging onto guys after that type of sustained success is difficult. However, I think that being cap-strapped and unable to retain virtually any of your free agents in the very first offseason after your very first decent season in team history is a little early for that ship to be sailing. Maybe the Colts and the Patriots started hemorrhaging their best offensive linemen and their best pass rushers to free agency because they lacked cap space after their very first winning season, but I doubt it. That's the only point I was trying to make.

[WMH]

In all seriousness, I truly believe that the Texans have an offer on the table for Mario, if/when he signs with Buffalo, these funds will be immediately diverted to Myers. Not saying I agree with thier priority, but I think that was what they are thinking.

The problem with all of this is timing. As we saw last year, Smith was quick to dump the Aso chase and deal with JJoe. IMO, we are in a better spot this year, as Myers likely wants to return. Hopefully, it will work out like this.

My glass is still half full......for now.

[Keith]

My glass sits half full at the moment too. My only question is if the Texans know that the Bills want to fork over a $100M deal to Mario, I just am not sure if I'd be as willing to pay for it.

That they prioritize pass rush over all else, great.
That they prioritize Myers over Winston, great.
That they haven't made a "splash" yet in UFA, great.

Mostly my other question is just why both Jacoby and Walter are both still on the roster at their current cap figures. Neither is a #2 WR, yet both are paid at or near that amount.

I'd also try to get DeMeco to renegotiate/restructure. His replacements, be they Dobbins or Sharpton, seem capable, though I do admit they probably lack the leadership that DeMeco provides. Just wonder how important his leadership still is given what the unit achieved last season.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Keith

My glass sits half full at the moment too. My only question is if the Texans know that the Bills want to fork over a $100M deal to Mario, I just am not sure if I'd be as willing to pay for it.

That they prioritize pass rush over all else, great.
That they prioritize Myers over Winston, great.
That they haven't made a "splash" yet in UFA, great.

Mostly my other question is just why both Jacoby and Walter are both still on the roster at their current cap figures. Neither is a #2 WR, yet both are paid at or near that amount.

I'd also try to get DeMeco to renegotiate/restructure. His replacements, be they Dobbins or Sharpton, seem capable, though I do admit they probably lack the leadership that DeMeco provides. Just wonder how important his leadership still is given what the unit achieved last season.

Those would be my 2 questions too. I cannot imagine JJ surviving and certainly cannot understand dumping a very reliable Winston instead of the flaky JJ.

[WMH]

Originally Posted by Keith

My glass sits half full at the moment too. My only question is if the Texans know that the Bills want to fork over a $100M deal to Mario, I just am not sure if I'd be as willing to pay for it.

That they prioritize pass rush over all else, great.
That they prioritize Myers over Winston, great.
That they haven't made a "splash" yet in UFA, great.

Mostly my other question is just why both Jacoby and Walter are both still on the roster at their current cap figures. Neither is a #2 WR, yet both are paid at or near that amount.

I'd also try to get DeMeco to renegotiate/restructure. His replacements, be they Dobbins or Sharpton, seem capable, though I do admit they probably lack the leadership that DeMeco provides. Just wonder how important his leadership still is given what the unit achieved last season.

It could be that is all part of thier "plan" for if/when they need the space. Why push funds around unless you need to?

Maybe...I dunno. Just thinking outloud in a somewhat positive manner.

[popanot]

Not sure how accurate the info is, but LZ reported yesterday that Demeco's actual 2012 cap savings if he were to be cut would only be ~$1MM. If that's the case, why cut him? Seems there would be better places to save.

JJ and Walter on the other hand... I think both of those guys combined would be ~$7MM. I'd cut both and hope you can find a rookie or cheap vet FA late in camp (maybe Santana Moss?) for the vet minimum.

BTW, if you heard McNair on the 610 yesterday, he made a comment to the effect of "we'd love to re-sign our players, but we're going to let them test the waters and let the market determine their value".

[popanot]

Vickers a Cowpie...

Mark Berman‏ @MarkBermanFox26 -
Free agent FB Lawrence Vickers signs with the Cowboys.

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EDIT: In other news.... Ugh....

Mark Berman‏ (@MarkBermanFox26)
Jeff Sperbeck, agent for Mike Brisiel, says Mike will visit with the Raiders tomorrow.

Mark Berman‏ (@MarkBermanFox26)
Jeff Sperbeck, agent for TE Joel Dreessen, says Joel has visit set up with Saints for this weekend.