Put it in the bank: Mohamed Sanu

[chuck]

Originally Posted by WMH

What's the benefit of them running in shorts and T-shirts for 40 yards in a straight line? IMO, not much, yet these kids are absolutely scrutinzed for the difference between a 4.49 and a 4.50 forty.

Some of the other drills make perfect sense, but I've never understood the whole 40 thing. Do we need to know how fast he is....absolutely. Can you tell me the difference between a "4.4" and a "4.5" guy? Doubtful. And when will they run in a straight line for 40 yards?

But, that's the way its always been......

Just an amusing observation to me.

I think that websites, ESPN, fantasy players and armchair GMs get worked up over stats that you and I agree are not terribly meaningful in an isolated context. I suspect that most teams care less about whether a guy is 4.44 or 4.49 and more about some of the more esoteric measurements or, more probably, certain combinations of measurements. I'm thinking specifically of the Texans and Ben Tate. The Texans liked him in part because of some combination of measurements - I believe he was the fastest back per pound, something like that.

[barrett]

Guys come from well over 100+ schools every year just in D1 alone. They play wildly different schedules and competition levels. They also have unknown practice habits and attitudes that NFL teams can only guess at.

The combine puts them all on an even playing field for comparison's sake. Every team probably weighs it differently, but it is a useful tool to be able to tell if a guy is actually fast or just looked fast playing against Memphis or some other terrible team.

But to me the biggest thing the combine shows is professionalism. They are performing for future pay, just like they do in the NFL, and you get to see if they know how to train, prepare, and perform (in a basically non-football setting). If a guy is out of shape and unprepared at the combine he probably lacks the professionalism to be in-shape, prepared, and healthy in the NFL environment.

[HPF Bob]

Good points. I think the Combine is a good place to see everyone on somewhat equal footing but I also suspect teams have become so sophisticated at this that they try not to give away who they are really interested in so you never are sure who's being sincere and who's not - sort of like speed dating.

[NBT]

I feel the drills help to establish a pecking order for scouts and GM's to populate their draft boards. So for that reason, I suppose that is the rationale for the 40, and all the other drills.

[Nconroe]

Sanu had a disappointing slow 4.65 in 40 .

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by NBT

I suppose that is the rationale for the 40

There's a downfield sprint that occurs repeatedly in NFL games, and that's WRs going full-tilt on fly-patterns and other deep routes with corners in hot pursuit.
So for those 2 positions, 40 times have real relevance, other wise not so much.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

There's a downfield sprint that occurs repeatedly in NFL games, and that's WRs going full-tilt on fly-patterns and other deep routes with corners in hot pursuit.
So for those 2 positions, 40 times have real relevance, other wise not so much.

Guys who are fast running 40 yards are generally fast. Guys who are slow running 40 yards are generally slow. So it has a little more relevance than fly routes. Especially for a guy from a bad team in a mediocre conference who did not play against great DBs.

[HPF Bob]

Jerry Rice had a slow 40 time. That and being from a small college is how he fell all the way to the 49ers.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

Jerry Rice had a slow 40 time. That and being from a small college is how he fell all the way to the 49ers.

Clearly that was a miss.

But there are about 1000 guys who were slow who didn't pan out. Film study should be the first concern, but if Sanu doesn't play very fast on film (and I'm not sure) then his competition and his 40 are huge concerns. Good hands, good size, good blocker, but slow sounds like Kevin Walter more than a 1st round pick.

[chuck]

Wide receiver is a funny position, isn't it? There are some guys who are just completely built to be hall of famers, they have all the size and speed you could hope for, but for one reason or another simply cannot play the position. Then you have guys who are small or slow or both who somehow are geniuses at getting open. Bob will like this reference because he's white: Wayne Chrebet. The dude was small and relatively slow but that mofo was ALWAYS open. Open as in wide-ass open, not NFL-open. No-one-within-five-yards-of-him open.

I have no idea what Steve Smith's combine was like (or if he was even invited) but I do know that teams passed on him 73 times that draft. The first WR taken in 2001 was David Terrell. Terrell has the perfect size to play the position but could not. Steve Smith is smaller than I am and will go straight to Canton.

[HPF Bob]

Chrebet? Heck, what about former Oiler draft choices Charlie Joiner and Steve Largent? They're both in Canton but neither had the size or speed to appear as obvious top receiver prospects. Rod Smith of the Broncos was not drafted at all but he's the franchise's all-time receiving leader. Nobody has yet found a way to measure heart and determination. All three of those guys had it.

[barrett]

I agree with all of this.

But it still doesn't change the fact that more fast guys suceed than slow ones. And more big guys than small ones.

I don't want to turn into the Raiders and draft the top of the 40 yard dash list every year, but it isn't either or. In the first round we ought to be able to find a guy who shows up on film and can run.

[chuck]

Originally Posted by barrett

I don't want to turn into the Raiders and draft the top of the 40 yard dash list every year, but it isn't either or. In the first round we ought to be able to find a guy who shows up on film and can run.

I agree totally. I guess my main point is that WR is a deceptively difficult position to scout.

[popanot]

This WR class seems pretty deep, so I wouldn't have a problem with us taking BPA at another position and waiting until the 2nd RD to take WR. I'm not all that impressed with Sanu per say, but I'll damn near lay money that he or someone of similar skills (or someone better) is there at our #2. At this point, I think there are only 3 WRs - Blackmon, Floyd and Wright - worthy of a 1st Rd. pick. And if none of those guys are available, I say pass on WR with the #1. Stephen Hill had a great combine, but I still wouldn't take him with the #1.