Free Agent WRs

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by NBT

Fonz and Joshua, Mario himself has had to be put on IR the last two years. Get the #2 WR in the Draft, but try to sign and trade Mario for a good veteran CB.

Mario played in all 16 games his first 4 years. In his fifth year, he played in 13 games and then went on IR because the team sucked and the season was effectively over, but I seem to recall the Texans indicating that he could have played out the string if the games had meant something (haven't looked for this but that is my recollection). Last year, he did miss 11 games after a freak pectoral injury. In short, last year is the only year he absolutely had to be shut down. If you think 1 non-knee/leg injury in 6 six years is enough to write him off, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

And to take your argument further, are you in favor of ditching AJ? He's 30 years old and missed 7 games in 2007, 3 games in 2010 (just like Mario) and 9 games in 2011 (2 less than Mario). Plus, his recent injuries have been leg-related and are much more likely to reoccur than Mario's.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by Joshua

Mario played in all 16 games his first 4 years. In his fifth year, he played in 13 games and then went on IR because the team sucked and the season was effectively over, but I seem to recall the Texans indicating that he could have played out the string if the games had meant something (haven't looked for this but that is my recollection). Last year, he did miss 11 games after a freak pectoral injury. In short, last year is the only year he absolutely had to be shut down. If you think 1 non-knee/leg injury in 6 six years is enough to write him off, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

And to take your argument further, are you in favor of ditching AJ? He's 30 years old and missed 7 games in 2007, 3 games in 2010 (just like Mario) and 9 games in 2011 (2 less than Mario). Plus, his recent injuries have been leg-related and are much more likely to reoccur than Mario's.

Mario is a very good defensive football player, but AJ will be the first Houston Texan to become a member of the NFL HOF and is clearly the best football player this franchise has had to date. So you are comparing apples and oranges. However there will probably come a time when the Texans need to approach Andre about restructuring his contract. And BTW, you are absolutely right about Mario's durability - he's been very dependable up until this past season.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

Mario is a very good defensive football player, but AJ will be the first Houston Texan to become a member of the NFL HOF and is clearly the best football player this franchise has had to date. So you are comparing apples and oranges. However there will probably come a time when the Texans need to approach Andre about restructuring his contract. And BTW, you are absolutely right about Mario's durability - he's been very dependable up until this past season.

That is true, but NBT appears to be suggesting that Mario is too much of an injury concern to keep. On that basis alone, AJ is much more of a concern. He injured both hamstrings this year in separate non-contact incidents. To me, this suggests that AJ is much more likely to miss time going forward than Mario. But, you are right that to compare players, you need to take into account not only their propensity for injury but also the caliber of player they are. AJ clearly is at the top of the heap in this regard.

[chuck]

Originally Posted by Joshua

And to take your argument further, are you in favor of ditching AJ? He's 30 years old and missed 7 games in 2007, 3 games in 2010 (just like Mario) and 9 games in 2011 (2 less than Mario). Plus, his recent injuries have been leg-related and are much more likely to reoccur than Mario's.

This is one reason why when anyone suggests that the team go find a #2 receiver I keep thinking, Well, how about trying to find a #1 receiver? I fully realize that there are only so many people on the planet who have the basket of skills that Andre has but I would hope the team is looking for someone in the draft who will be a monster for years to come rather than a marginally less stupid version of Jacoby Jones.

[jcp]

Originally Posted by chuck

This is one reason why when anyone suggests that the team go find a #2 receiver I keep thinking, Well, how about trying to find a #1 receiver? I fully realize that there are only so many people on the planet who have the basket of skills that Andre has but I would hope the team is looking for someone in the draft who will be a monster for years to come rather than a marginally less stupid version of Jacoby Jones.

This is my point...AJ is a premier WR1 when healthy but his health has begun to fade. I don't by any means want to get rid of him, but we must start looking for a WR1b that can step in when required.

I have no desire to lose Mario either...he provides premier depth at the OLB position...we need a 3-man rotation there. I'm clearly in the minority but I don't see the secondary as a need position this year. The two balls caught against KJ in BAL were exceptionally well covered but good throws and excellent catches. He has improved dramatically this year with some good coaching and I think he and Allen make a pretty good CB2 going forward with a developing rookie in Harris (and Carmichael) waiting in the wings.

[Nconroe]

So obvous thing is draft 2 WR fairly early this year.

[TheMatrix31]

Sign a guy like Early Doucet or Eddie Royal to be WR2 and draft another WR to compete with 'em and Walter. We don't have money for one of those top FAs anyway.

[jcp]

Originally Posted by Nconroe

So obvous thing is draft 2 WR fairly early this year.

Not necessarily opposed to this idea...but I'd say we should start drafting for WR3 replacement who could grow into WR2 role but drafting WR is very inexact science...moreso than most positions. For once we are real close and could be that one player away we've always dreamed of...I trust they can make the money work if a solid WR1b is available and wants to come collect some rings.

We aren't exactly in cap hell...challenging but doable

[angrydre]

I'm not understanding all this garbage about getting rid of Mario. The kid plays through pain, and while looking only marginally comfortable (if even that) standing up, he still registered 5 sacks in 17 quarters. Get him comfortable, and he's got the potential to be sackmaster the likes of which the league has never seen. His cap number in 2011 was over $15 mil. and the cap is expected to jump around $10 mil. A backloaded deal isn't anywhere near prohibitively expensive. Besides, he came to a 2-14 football team and watched us grow up from the sidelines. You don't think a deep run into the playoffs is something he wants to be a part of, when it's something he's helped build from the ground up? I just can't see a scenario where we don't have everyone back next year. My gut says it won't happen. Angry Dre literally cried in public over the amount of money McNair gave him. I'm pretty sure he'd be willing to give a little back if it meant keeping Arian or Mario around and happy.

As for the actual point of this thread, I'd love a DeSean Jackson (if he can get some big boy pants), or Stevie Johnson, but I think a guy like Robert Meacham is gonna me more our speed. I've got a feeling Jason Allen walks, so we're gonna have to replace him, though Brice McCain did make strides in the second half.

[Nconroe]

Seems as I watch these playoff games a lot of WR drop catchable balls.

On DeSean Jackson
After the Eagles' season finale on Sunday, Jackson said he wanted to return to the team, and apologized for letting uncertainty about his contract affect his play this season. He had 58 receptions for 961 yards and four touchdowns in 2011.

Jackson was benched one game after missing a team meeting and sidelined late in another for dropping several passes.

This year Jackson had 58 catches with 4 TD, some big plays.

Last year he had 47 catches.

In 4 years he fumbled 12 times.

He was drafted 49th in second round.

He is 5 ft 10 inch, 175 lbs.

He wants a new contract at 10 mil a year.

Just me , think I'd try draft and save the money.

[itssharif]

I know this thread is technically FA WR but was wondering.

Assuming we do a trade to get into the top 5 how much would we technically have to give up draft picks wise and whatever this amount is would it be worth it for Blackmon? The one thing I like about drafting from here on out is that they affect a team's cap a lot less after the way they handled it in the CBA. So it might as well be a hell of a lot more beneficial that we find out next stud WR through the draft. Just wondering.

[popanot]

Originally Posted by itssharif

Assuming we do a trade to get into the top 5 how much would we technically have to give up draft picks wise and whatever this amount is would it be worth it for Blackmon? The one thing I like about drafting from here on out is that they affect a team's cap a lot less after the way they handled it in the CBA. So it might as well be a hell of a lot more beneficial that we find out next stud WR through the draft. Just wondering.

Here's the closest measuring stick... The Falcons moved up 21 spots to #6 last year to select Julio Jones. To do so, they gave up their 2011 #1, #2, #4, and their 2012 #1 and #4. IMO, we'd have to go higher than that to get Blackmon. That is a steep price to pay and I don't think there's any way the Texans would do it, nor should they.

Just as an FYI, Torrey Smith was taken at pick 26 in the 2nd round and who wouldn't love to have him right now...?? You don't have to give up your draft to find a good player.

[popanot]

To clarify my above statement re:Smith, I didn't mean we should have taken Smith over Reed. What I'm saying is who wouldn't rather have Smith with pick #58 as opposed to giving up all those picks ATL did to get Jones. Comparing the 2 WRs and the price, ATL paid an insane amount of picks to move up. It also proves we can potentially find a good WR with our current picks that fits in perfectly with what we need (someone like Smith).

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by popanot

To clarify my above statement re:Smith, I didn't mean we should have taken Smith over Reed. What I'm saying is who wouldn't rather have Smith with pick #58 as opposed to giving up all those picks ATL did to get Jones. Comparing the 2 WRs and the price, ATL paid an insane amount of picks to move up. It also proves we can potentially find a good WR with our current picks that fits in perfectly with what we need (someone like Smith).

The draft is such a crapshoot (just pull up any year and look at all the 1st round flameouts from supposedly can't miss prospects). As a general proposition, the only scenario I can really see trading away a bunch of picks to move up is to take a perceived franchise QB. That's about the only situation I would consider doing it.

[chuck]

Julio Jones is pretty good but come on.

[Fonz the Boss]

Blackmon is going to be an NFL stud and perennial Pro Bowler but we will have to give up alot more than ATL did and I don't see that happening.

[NBT]

Originally Posted by Joshua

Mario played in all 16 games his first 4 years. In his fifth year, he played in 13 games and then went on IR because the team sucked and the season was effectively over, but I seem to recall the Texans indicating that he could have played out the string if the games had meant something (haven't looked for this but that is my recollection). Last year, he did miss 11 games after a freak pectoral injury. In short, last year is the only year he absolutely had to be shut down. If you think 1 non-knee/leg injury in 6 six years is enough to write him off, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

And to take your argument further, are you in favor of ditching AJ? He's 30 years old and missed 7 games in 2007, 3 games in 2010 (just like Mario) and 9 games in 2011 (2 less than Mario). Plus, his recent injuries have been leg-related and are much more likely to reoccur than Mario's.

JOSHUA, don't put words in my mouth. 1) Mario has been hurt, but I am interested in exploring what might be available if we franchise him, and see what kind of offers we might get. 2) He wants a huge contract, I think. 3) We now have 3 young pass rushers in Barwin, Reed, & Watt to put on the heat. 4) We have to give Foster a new very significant contract.

Try to stick to things I did say. To make your point by alluding to things I might have said about AJ will get you absolutely nowhere!

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by NBT

JOSHUA, don't put words in my mouth. 1) Mario has been hurt, but I am interested in exploring what might be available if we franchise him, and see what kind of offers we might get. 2) He wants a huge contract, I think. 3) We now have 3 young pass rushers in Barwin, Reed, & Watt to put on the heat. 4) We have to give Foster a new very significant contract.

Try to stick to things I did say. To make your point by alluding to things I might have said about AJ will get you absolutely nowhere!

I don't think I was putting words in your mouth. To "stick to the things you did say," the post I was responding to said "Fonz and Joshua, Mario himself has had to be put on IR the last two years. Get the #2 WR in the Draft, but try to sign and trade Mario for a good veteran CB." I read this to mean that you think Mario is too injury prone to be worth keeping. Is this putting words in your mouth? Really not sure how this post could be taken any other way.

As for AJ, where did I suggest you said something about him? I asked you a question. If you are hesitant to keep Mario because of injury concerns, do you have the same concerns for AJ, considering he has been more injury prone than Mario, as well as older and suffering injuries more likely to reoccur in the future. It was nothing more than a simple question.

As for your other points, I agree Mario will want a huge contract and reasonable minds can differ over whether the Texans should give it to him. I happen to think they should if they can make it work, but if you don't, I can certainly understand that. Reed did fill in well with Mario out but I don't think we've seen enough from him yet to confidently say we can let our best pass rusher walk.