[Cowher interested in becoming Texans HC] Finally, Music to my ears...

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

I agree with Barrett. There is a losing culture here and this season personifies it. The team had made four comebacks of 14-points or more to tie or take the lead, only to lose each time. That tells you a) the talent is there to win games but b) there's no attitude that expects to close the sale.

I don't think it's as much of an accomplishment for the Texans to come back
in games as some people do. The dirty little secret about the Texans is they've got inferior personnel which puts them in the hole early in a game, at which point the other team goes to conservative mode (on both defense and offense) and protects their lead rather than trying to build on it. Sure the Texans usually close the gap, sometimes to a razor thin margin, but much more often than not they end up losing.
Re winning/losing culture, what we saw Sunday in Nashville was a team that just lacked effort/focus, and that was absent probably because there's no longer anything to play for this season - no motivation.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

I don't think it's as much of an accomplishment for the Texans to come back
in games as some people do. The dirty little secret about the Texans is they've got inferior personnel which puts them in the hole early in a game, at which point the other team goes to conservative mode (on both defense and offense) and protects their lead rather than trying to build on it. Sure the Texans usually close the gap, sometimes to a razor thin margin, but much more often than not they end up losing.
Re winning/losing culture, what we saw Sunday in Nashville was a team that just lacked effort/focus, and that was absent probably because there's no longer anything to play for this season - no motivation.

The NFL is not the NBA where everybody makes a run. You don't get a free comeback because your opponent goes conservative. If you are falling behind because you are bad, then you are likely to fall further behind, since the game is far easier to play with a lead.

If the Texans were simply coming back because other teams let up, then you would see it all over the league. Instead it is unique and the Texans have done this (come back from 14 and lose) more than twice as much as any team in NFL history. And you can throw in 2 other successful comebacks. That means that SIX TIMES they came out flat and fell behind 2+ touchdowns, only to come back. That is not a team that has inferior talent. That is a poorly coached team.

The facts just don't match up with what you are telling us.

[nunusguy]

NFL teams win with talent, then the winning culture follows, not vice versa. End of story.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

NFL teams win with talent, then the winning culture follows, not vice versa. End of story.

Saying 'end of story' doesn't actually mean you are right.

How about the countless times where NFL teams change little but the coach and start winning immediately? Talent is more evenly distributed in the NFL than in any other pro sports league. Combine that with the far smaller number of games and success is not determined by who, but by how.

Just this year we see the Chiefs, Bucs, and Jaguars winning with major talent deficiencies. The Jags may actually have entered the season worse at Safety than we did, and with little of the offensive talent we have to make up for it. The Chiefs and Bucs actually started their turn arounds by getting rid of their most talented players and starting from scratch with young guys who had not been a part of the losing. The head coaches in both cases have changed what those players expect to happen on Sundays.

Not to mention teams who had plenty of talent a year ago like Dallas and Minnesota can't sniff .500 this year. Where is the winning culture following talent on those teams.

There is no league where talent determines success less than the NFL. Scheme, motivation, health, and schedule are huge factors. We can't control the last two, but it is the job of our coaching staff to control the first two, and they have failed to do so.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by barrett

Scheme, motivation, health, and schedule are huge factors. We can't control the last two, but it is the job of our coaching staff to control the first two, and they have failed to do so.

Now I agree with that, but I don't agree that motivation is the same as "winning culture". You can resurrect Vince Lombardi from the dead, and he can surely motivate his players, but he wouldn't win in Houston until he's got the necessary talent. And regarding schemes (both offensive and defensive), good point and of course that's a coaching issue but that's not at all synonymous with "winning attitude" either IMO ?
We've already got players on our team who've spent their college careers at places like Miami, USC, 'Bama, etc. who learned all about a "winning culture"
in those programs, so obviously something else is missing from the formula here in Houston ?
"Winning attitude", "team chemistry", etc are all kinda vague terms used for players who complement each other on the team, have expereinced success, but first and foremost have "god given" talent. We need more "god given" talent here in Houston IMO.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

Now I agree with that, but I don't agree that motivation is the same as "winning culture". You can resurrect Vince Lombardi from the dead, and he can surely motivate his players, but he wouldn't win in Houston until he's got the necessary talent. And regarding schemes (both offensive and defensive), good point and of course that's a coaching issue but that's not at all synonymous with "winning attitude" either IMO ?
We've already got players on our team who've spent their college careers at places like Miami, USC, 'Bama, etc. who learned all about a "winning culture"
in those programs, so obviously something else is missing from the formula here in Houston ?
"Winning attitude", "team chemistry", etc are all kinda vague terms used for players who complement each other on the team, have expereinced success, but first and foremost have "god given" talent. We need more "god given" talent here in Houston IMO.

The win totals of the Cincinnatti Bengals,

2008 - 4
2009 - 10
2010 - 3

Their team talent has not changed significantly in any of those 3 seasons. Talent is not supreme in the NFL.

But just answer one question. Are the most talented teams in the NFL the most winning teams right now?

[HPF Bob]

Talent may not change but injuries often do. You can have the same personnel for 2-3 years but if the key players don't stay healthy, you can have wildly different results.

If we go to an 18-game season, that will become even more noticeable as the NFL becomes more a war of attrition than a true quest for a championship.