Antonio Smith, DT?

[Joe Joe]

If Barwin wins the DE spot opposite Mario, does Antonio Smith move to DT on first and second downs as well? Bush has always talked about getting penetration from the defensive line and this was one of Antonio's strong points when the Texans got him. I see this making the Texans weaker against a power rushing team, but increase the effectiveness of the pass rush.

[Roy P]

I don't see Barwin winning the DE spot on 1st and 2nd down. That being said, I wonder if Smith would be better than Okoye as the 3-Tech.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by Roy P

I wonder if Smith would be better than Okoye as the 3-Tech.

So obviously the question is, on first and second downs do we have a player on the roster now who could come in at strongside DE if Antonio is inside at 3-Tech who with Antonio would form a stronger combo than the present combo of Okoye at 3-Tech and Antonio at DE ?

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

So obviously the question is, on first and second downs do we have a player on the roster now who could come in at strongside DE if Antonio is inside at 3-Tech who with Antonio would form a stronger combo than the present combo of Okoye at 3-Tech and Antonio at DE ?

A) Barwin - Cody - Smith - Williams

or

B) Smith - Cody - Okoye - Williams

or

C) Barwin - Okoye - Smith - Williams

[WMH]

Originally Posted by Roy P

A) Barwin - Cody - Smith - Williams

or

B) Smith - Cody - Okoye - Williams

or

C) Barwin - Okoye - Smith - Williams

I'll take D

Barwin - Smith - Dan Williams - Mario Williams

IMO, with that type of potential disruptive force, any secondary would look pretty damn good.....

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by WMH

I'll take D

Barwin - Smith - Dan Williams - Mario Williams

IMO, with that type of potential disruptive force, any secondary would look pretty damn good.....

I don't see Barwin as having much of a future as a full-time 4-3 DE, here or anywhere.
If they'd bulk him up some to play against the rush it would probably compromise his quickness as an edge-rusher. Afterall his coomparisons to Jason Babin
really aren't that far off of the mark.
Truth is he probably should have been drafted by a 3-4 team where he could play from a standup position as an OLB if we're talking about a 3-down role for him ? Now if the Texans were to go to more 3-4 schemes, then his full-time participation in the defensive lineup starts to make more sense.

[Bigtinylittle]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

I don't see Barwin as having much of a future as a full-time 4-3 DE, here or anywhere.
If they'd bulk him up some to play against the rush it would probably compromise his quickness as an edge-rusher. Afterall his coomparisons to Jason Babin
really aren't that far off of the mark.
Truth is he probably should have been drafted by a 3-4 team where he could play from a standup position as an OLB if we're talking about a 3-down role for him ? Now if the Texans were to go to more 3-4 schemes, then his full-time participation in the defensive lineup starts to make more sense.

Well, we definately do have a problem with our pass rush, and Smith and Barwin were brought in to help with it. In Smith's case, so far the results have been underwhelming. That's not surprising, though. In more cases than not, higher dollar free agents tend to disappoint. That's why I don't agree with those fans who every year scream for us to sign one.

I think the ultimate solution to our pass rush problem, if we actually ever find one, will not come from Smith no matter where he is lined up. Most likely our solution will be a draft pick, and most likely not one from this year's class. Unless Barwin takes a huge step forward this year, our pass rush will remain in the bottom half of NFL teams.

[gunn]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

I don't see Barwin as having much of a future as a full-time 4-3 DE, here or anywhere.
If they'd bulk him up some to play against the rush it would probably compromise his quickness as an edge-rusher. Afterall his coomparisons to Jason Babin
really aren't that far off of the mark.
Truth is he probably should have been drafted by a 3-4 team where he could play from a standup position as an OLB if we're talking about a 3-down role for him ? Now if the Texans were to go to more 3-4 schemes, then his full-time participation in the defensive lineup starts to make more sense.

Maybe I'm a glass half full guy... but I think you're gonna be proven wrong. As for the Babin comparison... Barwin is much more of a fluid athlete and more explosive than Babin ever was. The team has also asked him to bulk up to around 270 this year, iirc.

[Joe Joe]

It is very reasonable that Barwin will get more sacks if he gets more PT and that he should be much improved with more upper body strength and having twice the experience going into this season versus last at DE. Mario had a low year for sacks. I'm not completely down on Okoye, and think he would do better in a platoon situation with Smith. I think the Texans can get the 4 more sacks needed to be in the top half of teams in sacks.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by gunn

The team has also asked him to bulk up to around 270 this year, iirc.

Barwin (6'4" 254lbs) is comparable to the Vikings' Brian Robison (6'3" 259lbs) as a pass-rushing specialist [the Vikings drafted him in the 4th round]. Perhaps he could bulk up to Trent Cole or Dwight Freeney status (269lbs). We just have to make sure that he didn't lose his quickness since that was the reason we drafted him in the first place. He is supposed to complement Antonio Smith. Now, if we aren't happy with 1st and 2nd down, then we should be drafting a kid like Everson Griffen or Corey Wootton.

[gunn]

Originally Posted by Roy P

Barwin (6'4" 254lbs) is comparable to the Vikings' Brian Robison (6'3" 259lbs) as a pass-rushing specialist [the Vikings drafted him in the 4th round]. Perhaps he could bulk up to Trent Cole or Dwight Freeney status (269lbs). We just have to make sure that he didn't lose his quickness since that was the reason we drafted him in the first place. He is supposed to complement Antonio Smith. Now, if we aren't happy with 1st and 2nd down, then we should be drafting a kid like Everson Griffen or Corey Wootton.

I'm thinking the team is hoping he will progress enough this offseason to earn the starting spot... As a result, Antonio Smith would kick inside to 3-tech (where he has had a much bigger impact) and platoon with Okoye. To me the nose could be upgraded and I think the team feels that way too but I don't think it's as high of a priority to them. Maybe someone could be brought in, in the 4-5 round range, to compete with Cody unless someone unexpected slips and is overwhelmingly atop their board.

[Roy P]

Antonio Smith is allegedly 6'4" 285lbs, which would make him a bit light in the pants to play the DT position on 1st & 2nd down. Taking a look at the draft prospects who have legit size to play in the middle along with the necessary agility to pass rush I focus on 3 times from the Combine. 4.4_ or less in the shuttle, 7.3_ or less in the cone, and 1.69 or less in the 10 yard split. Those who competed at the Combine and meet these splits are:

Geno Atkins 6'2" 293lbs 4.43 - 7.33 - 1.68
Gerald McCoy 6'4" 295lbs 4.48 - 7.32 - 1.68
Ndamukong Suh 6'4" 307lbs 4.44 - 7.21 - 1.69
Tyson Alualu 6'3" 295lbs 4.43 - 7.15 - 1.67

That's a pretty short list. Atkins and Alualu have 10 more lbs on Antonio Smith. So, I'd prefer keeping the the Smith/Barwin platoon at DE and finding/drafting a big/fast 3-Tech to rotate with Okoye. Otherwise, I'd ask Smith to bulk up and find/draft another DE to rotate with Barwin. Either way, I'm not going to stand pat on personnel and hope that they just get better.

...This just in - Alex Brown has been cut by the Bears. Hmmmm at 6'3 & 260lbs, I could tell Antonio Smith to sit at the buffet table.

[Joe Joe]

Originally Posted by Roy P

Antonio Smith is allegedly 6'4" 285lbs, which would make him a bit light in the pants to play the DT position on 1st & 2nd down. Taking a look at the draft prospects who have legit size to play in the middle along with the necessary agility to pass rush I focus on 3 times from the Combine. 4.4_ or less in the shuttle, 7.3_ or less in the cone, and 1.69 or less in the 10 yard split. Those who competed at the Combine and meet these splits are:

Geno Atkins 6'2" 293lbs 4.43 - 7.33 - 1.68
Gerald McCoy 6'4" 295lbs 4.48 - 7.32 - 1.68
Ndamukong Suh 6'4" 307lbs 4.44 - 7.21 - 1.69
Tyson Alualu 6'3" 295lbs 4.43 - 7.15 - 1.67

That's a pretty short list. Atkins and Alualu have 10 more lbs on Antonio Smith. So, I'd prefer keeping the the Smith/Barwin platoon at DE and finding/drafting a big/fast 3-Tech to rotate with Okoye. Otherwise, I'd ask Smith to bulk up and find/draft another DE to rotate with Barwin. Either way, I'm not going to stand pat on personnel and hope that they just get better.

...This just in - Alex Brown has been cut by the Bears. Hmmmm at 6'3 & 260lbs, I could tell Antonio Smith to sit at the buffet table.

285 is light for a DT, but not something that is too light especially considering he could definitely get close to Atkins/Alualu's weight. I'm thinking the upgrade to personnel should be to get another DE and a run stopping DT. DTs that can rush the passer are expensive. I'm perfectly fine if the Texans get a DT that can rush the passer, but the high pick needed could be used elsewhere.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by Joe Joe

I'm thinking the upgrade to personnel should be to get another DE and a run stopping DT. DTs that can rush the passer are expensive.

So, if I'm reading you correctly, you want a "cheap" pass rushing DE instead of an expensive pass rushing DT. Let me introduce you to the DE from Washington, Daniel Te'o-Nesheim. Currently a 4th round pick by nfldraftscout.com. He's 6'4" 267lbs with 30 career sacks and 47 TFLs. Other measurables include 4.73 - 40, 29 reps, 1.61 - 10, 4.18 - shuttle, & 6.91 - Cone. I think I'm going to have to put him on my Draft Board now. He played in either the Shrine Bowl or the Texas v. Nation game, and he got pressure.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/p...;pageContainer

[Joe Joe]

Originally Posted by Roy P

So, if I'm reading you correctly, you want a "cheap" pass rushing DE instead of an expensive pass rushing DT. Let me introduce you to the DE from Washington, Daniel Te'o-Nesheim. Currently a 4th round pick by nfldraftscout.com. He's 6'4" 267lbs with 30 career sacks and 47 TFLs. Other measurables include 4.73 - 40, 29 reps, 1.61 - 10, 4.18 - shuttle, & 6.91 - Cone. I think I'm going to have to put him on my Draft Board now. He played in either the Shrine Bowl or the Texas v. Nation game, and he got pressure.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/p...;pageContainer

Exactly. Getting Smith more reps at DT improves pass rushing at two positions at the cost of hurting the run defense some. Yes, pass rushing DEs (not elite ones) are cheaper than the top ten picks needed for a good pass rushing DTs like Suh and McCoy.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by Joe Joe

Yes, pass rushing DEs (not elite ones) are cheaper than the top ten picks needed for a good pass rushing DTs like Suh and McCoy.

I would be looking at Geno Atkins and Tyson Alualu, not Suh or McCoy. In fact, I'm a little greedy and would like Atkins AND Te'o-Nesheim.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by Roy P

Antonio Smith is allegedly 6'4" 285lbs, which would make him a bit light in the pants to play the DT position on 1st & 2nd down. Taking a look at the draft prospects who have legit size to play in the middle along with the necessary agility to pass rush I focus on 3 times from the Combine. 4.4_ or less in the shuttle, 7.3_ or less in the cone, and 1.69 or less in the 10 yard split. Those who competed at the Combine and meet these splits are:

Geno Atkins 6'2" 293lbs 4.43 - 7.33 - 1.68
Gerald McCoy 6'4" 295lbs 4.48 - 7.32 - 1.68
Ndamukong Suh 6'4" 307lbs 4.44 - 7.21 - 1.69
Tyson Alualu 6'3" 295lbs 4.43 - 7.15 - 1.67

That's a pretty short list. Atkins and Alualu have 10 more lbs on Antonio Smith. So, I'd prefer keeping the the Smith/Barwin platoon at DE and finding/drafting a big/fast 3-Tech to rotate with Okoye. Otherwise, I'd ask Smith to bulk up and find/draft another DE to rotate with Barwin. Either way, I'm not going to stand pat on personnel and hope that they just get better.

I would suppose the Texans shared my thought process, but went with Earl instead of Geno.