The Halfback Pass vs. the Jags

[popanot]

Originally Posted by TexanJedi

This particular play cost us more time than anything.

Which brings us to another thing... Does Kubiak and his band of idiots know how the run a no-huddle, hurry up offense? These guys are two scores down with ~5 minutes left and they huddle up and/or lollygag around like they still have a quarter to play. This has occurred in numerous games whether it's the first half or second half. Sure if they stop the Jags on the last drive they MIGHT have enough time to score, but with the way this game was going and this season has gone, the probability of that happening is pretty slim. Why not go no-huddle earlier and try to have as much time as possible? Oh, that's right... Kubiak's a fk'in idiot!!

[TexanJedi]

Originally Posted by popanot

Which brings us to another thing... Does Kubiak and his band of idiots know how the run a no-huddle, hurry up offense? These guys are two scores down with ~5 minutes left and they huddle up and/or lollygag around like they still have a quarter to play. This has occurred in numerous games whether it's the first half or second half. Sure if they stop the Jags on the last drive they MIGHT have enough time to score, but with the way this game was going and this season has gone, the probability of that happening is pretty slim. Why not go no-huddle earlier and try to have as much time as possible? Oh, that's right... Kubiak's a fk'in idiot!!

Well time management is one of his glaring weaknesses as a head coach. I wanted things to change and did not want to see this team take a step back under new management, but I'm beyond that now. It's time for a change in culture.

[Mike]

Back to the play... The issue is this, he put Chris Brown in an unfamiliar situation. He put him in a bad situation, he was placed in a position to do something out of the ordinary for his position. It is like asking Antonio Smith to cover MDJ if he splits out. It is just dumb.

I know it has been said that he should have thrown it away, and that is 100% true. In the heat of the play, it is often tough to do that. That is why we pay Schaub all that money...to throw the ball, and not have Chris Brown throw it. In my past experience running that idiotic play, I was always afraid to throw the pick, so I usually just ran it and ate the ball, afraid to do with CB did.

People named Brown have now possibly cost us 5 games this year....and counting.

[edo783]

Originally Posted by Mike

Back to the play... The issue is this, he put Chris Brown in an unfamiliar situation. He put him in a bad situation, he was placed in a position to do something out of the ordinary for his position. It is like asking Antonio Smith to cover MDJ if he splits out. It is just dumb.

I know it has been said that he should have thrown it away, and that is 100% true. In the heat of the play, it is often tough to do that. That is why we pay Schaub all that money...to throw the ball, and not have Chris Brown throw it. In my past experience running that idiotic play, I was always afraid to throw the pick, so I usually just ran it and ate the ball, afraid to do with CB did.

People named Brown have now possibly cost us 5 games this year....and counting.

Actually, according to Kubes and Matt, they practiced that play this last week and they got exactly what they wanted in the game. Brown mishandled the transition of the ball in order to pass it and then was hit as he was passing it. According to them, they had their guy open n the back of the end zone. Its on the main sites videos if you want to watch it.

[chuck]

Originally Posted by edo783

Actually, according to Kubes and Matt, they practiced that play this last week and they got exactly what they wanted in the game. Brown mishandled the transition of the ball in order to pass it and then was hit as he was passing it. According to them, they had their guy open n the back of the end zone. Its on the main sites videos if you want to watch it.

I could give a rat's ass if the play almost worked. It should not even be in the freaking playbook. Remember when the Colts, THE COLTS, had Reggie Wayne throw a pass? Remember how THAT worked out for them? Yeah.

[Fonz the Boss]

I am convinced that that call will cost Kubiak his job... you can quote me on that. Even if we win the rest of our games (which we wont) Kubiak will be gone and and we will be spending the offseason looking for a new leader.

[popanot]

Look how Chris Brown (who has NEVER thrown a pass in a game - I wonder why?) is holding the ball moments before attempting the 'pass'.

http://www.chron.com/photos/2009/12/.../260xStory.jpg

And this brilliant staff was actually confident this play would work... Yeah, their man 'was open'. The problem was GETTING HIM THE BALL!!!!!

[barrett]

Originally Posted by popanot

Which brings us to another thing... Does Kubiak and his band of idiots know how the run a no-huddle, hurry up offense? These guys are two scores down with ~5 minutes left and they huddle up and/or lollygag around like they still have a quarter to play. This has occurred in numerous games whether it's the first half or second half. Sure if they stop the Jags on the last drive they MIGHT have enough time to score, but with the way this game was going and this season has gone, the probability of that happening is pretty slim. Why not go no-huddle earlier and try to have as much time as possible? Oh, that's right... Kubiak's a fk'in idiot!!

I think we gave this game away and am ready to string up everyone involved, but I disagree here.

Not hurrying is exactly what you do when you are down by 2 scores with 5 minutes left. In that situation the number one goal is to get the first score no matter what since the game is over without it. Then if it took too long you still have the onsides option. We did it perfectly in that all we need to do is make three tackles and we will get the ball back with over 2 minutes left (more time than you need).

Our 3rd down defense, the TD at the end of the half, lack of tackling in the end, the HB pass, the turnovers, Jacoby flaking, etc... Our team melted down here and gave the game away a dozen times without a doubt and I hope Kubiak is unemployed as a result. But that TD drive was one of the few things we did right all game.

[TexanJedi]

Originally Posted by popanot

Look how Chris Brown (who has NEVER thrown a pass in a game - I wonder why?) is holding the ball moments before attempting the 'pass'.

http://www.chron.com/photos/2009/12/.../260xStory.jpg

And this brilliant staff was actually confident this play would work... Yeah, their man 'was open'. The problem was GETTING HIM THE BALL!!!!!

But that's why it's so genius! Who would ever see it coming? And I cannot recall ever seeing a half back option pass that close to the goal line.

In fairness, Dreesen was wide open in the back of the end zone.

[popanot]

Originally Posted by barrett

I think we gave this game away and am ready to string up everyone involved, but I disagree here.

Not hurrying is exactly what you do when you are down by 2 scores with 5 minutes left. In that situation the number one goal is to get the first score no matter what since the game is over without it. Then if it took too long you still have the onsides option. We did it perfectly in that all we need to do is make three tackles and we will get the ball back with over 2 minutes left (more time than you need).

Our 3rd down defense, the TD at the end of the half, lack of tackling in the end, the HB pass, the turnovers, Jacoby flaking, etc... Our team melted down here and gave the game away a dozen times without a doubt and I hope Kubiak is unemployed as a result. But that TD drive was one of the few things we did right all game.

We'll have to disagree here then. With the way this game was going and our lack of productivity pretty much throughout, I feel you have to give yourself as much time as possible and try to keep them on their heels and keep them from shuffling in fresh players. Trying to rely on the defense making one last stop is gambling with this team. And it's a gamble I personally would not feel confident in making. I guess that's part of my problem with this staff. They're unwilling to gamble on a no-huddle (and like I said, it's not only this game), but are willing to gamble on a HB pass and our defense coming through. Of course, the defense SHOULD have come through, but history indicates the likelihood of that happening is fairly small.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by popanot

We'll have to disagree here then. With the way this game was going and our lack of productivity pretty much throughout, I feel you have to give yourself as much time as possible and try to keep them on their heels and keep them from shuffling in fresh players. Trying to rely on the defense making one last stop is gambling with this team. And it's a gamble I personally would not feel confident in making. I guess that's part of my problem with this staff. They're unwilling to gamble on a no-huddle (and like I said, it's not only this game), but are willing to gamble on a HB pass and our defense coming through. Of course, the defense SHOULD have come through, but history indicates the likelihood of that happening is fairly small.

Every coach I have ever talked to, listened to an interview from, or worked for has said the same thing about being down two scores in the 4th quarter. The most important thing is scoring because if you don't the game is over. The 2nd most important thing is leaving enough time on the clock to get the ball back. The Texans accomplished both. They scored a TD on that drive, and they left themselves plenty of time to get the ball back. That means they did exactly what they needed to. This was one of the only bright spots of yesterday's game (the only other one I can think of was the goalline stand in the 1st).

[chuck]

Originally Posted by barrett

(the only other one I can think of was the goalline stand in the 1st)

As a fan I was very proud of that effort. That will surely be a highlight in a season with precious few of them. The goal line stand. Andre fighting his way into the end zone. Well. That's about it so far.

Anyway, yeah, that can be the silver lining here, that we're hopefully seeing the maturation of the front seven.

[popanot]

Originally Posted by barrett

Every coach I have ever talked to, listened to an interview from, or worked for has said the same thing about being down two scores in the 4th quarter. The most important thing is scoring because if you don't the game is over. The 2nd most important thing is leaving enough time on the clock to get the ball back. The Texans accomplished both. They scored a TD on that drive, and they left themselves plenty of time to get the ball back. That means they did exactly what they needed to. This was one of the only bright spots of yesterday's game (the only other one I can think of was the goalline stand in the 1st).

Sure, they did what they needed to and had time left on the clock. My point is, this team has time and time played it like they can win a game if they just "play the clock" - whether its the first half of a game or the second half. And time and time again they've failed and lost (did it again yesterday). They pretty much sucked yesterday save for maybe one drive. Why not try something different (not HB pass different, but different) to get them off balance or leave even more time available? Somehow or another I think the good teams like the Colts, Pats, Vikings, Saints, etc. would have either been in a no-huddle or at least had a bigger sense of urgency.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by popanot

Sure, they did what they needed to and had time left on the clock. My point is, this team has time and time played it like they can win a game if they just "play the clock" - whether its the first half of a game or the second half. And time and time again they've failed and lost (did it again yesterday). They pretty much sucked yesterday save for maybe one drive. Why not try something different (not HB pass different, but different) to get them off balance or leave even more time available? Somehow or another I think the good teams like the Colts, Pats, Vikings, Saints, etc. would have either been in a no-huddle or at least had a bigger sense of urgency.

Actually, the Pats opened the season with an almost identical situation against the Bills. They had played terrible and found themselves down 2 TDs with short time left. They calmly marched down field with short passes. They did not rush. They made sure they scored. And when they did, they had even less time left then the Texans. But then when they had a chance to make a play, they made it (fumble on the ensuing kickoff). The Colts are even less urgent when they are behind. They simply go about business as usual, assuming they will make every play they need to make.

The Texans played that drive Just fine. They gave themselves a great chance to get the ball back and win. They just failed to make plays at the most crucial spots of the game (like they always do). Even Cushing and Ryans, their surest tacklers let MJD slip through key tackles. Once again they made plenty of plays to get into position for a win, they just spit the bit when it counted.

[NBT]

The play didn't work because CB didn't get time to throw. The FB took the inside tackler instead of the outside one, causing the pulling guard to not have a chance to block the outside, or inside guy. If it had been blocked correctly the play had a chance of succeeding. I think Baby Shanny is the real culprit on that play.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by NBT

I think Baby Shanny is the real culprit on that play.

The buck stops with Kubiak of course, but this was my first thought even as the play was unfolding.

I'm guessing Kubiak is in heavy protect mode of Baby Shan (outside closed doors at least). Dom Capers had to learn the hard way here about protecting his assistants. It took Kubiak a year too long to replace Richard Smith as DC.

And the ironic thing is that if a defensive-minded head coach is hired to replace Kubiak (whether it is in 2010 or beyond), it seems conceivable that McNair and Rick Smith keep Baby Shan and much of the offensive system and coaches in place when showing Kubiak the door.

[TheMatrix31]

That's the thing. I don't want to lose our offensive punch. I just want to play smarter, with more polish and discipline. Our STYLE of play is fine.

[chuck]

The halfback pass might have been the worst play the Texans have run in the franchise's history but it is nowhere near the worst play of all time, much less the worst play in the NFL this year.

Viewable for now here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3BorxSYgyo

I am absolutely in awe of the level of stupidity required to devise such a travesty much less decide to run it in front of the entire football world on Monday night. Wow.