Do We Need a Change at HC?

[NBT]

I'm like Mario, I love Kubiak to death as a person, but as a HC I don't think he can get over the hump, which he is showing again this year.

[Keith]

I added a poll to this to take the forum temperature on this and keep the conversation a little different from our other threads. Maybe we'll do another poll after the season is complete.

[HPF Bob]

I didn't vote because I'm not going to be shattered either way. He hasn't done much this year to recommend himself for another year and yet the Ws and Ls are a bit deceiving.

Houston, at 6-7, has a point differential of +38. That's more than 8-5 Denver (+26), 7-6 NY Giants (+12) and 7-6 Miami (-14). In 2008, our point differential was -28 and in 2007 our point differential was -5.

The tough-luck losses against J'ville, Arizona, Indy and Tennessee make our W-L look worse than we really ought to be. Yes, there's been a knack for shooting ourselves in the foot but who's to say those breaks don't turn for us next year the way they've turned against us this year?

So, what I'm trying to say is that if Kubiak is fired, I understand it. If he isn't, I understand that too.

[TheMatrix31]

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

I didn't vote because I'm not going to be shattered either way. He hasn't done much this year to recommend himself for another year and yet the Ws and Ls are a bit deceiving.

Houston, at 6-7, has a point differential of +38. That's more than 8-5 Denver (+26), 7-6 NY Giants (+12) and 7-6 Miami (-14). In 2008, our point differential was -28 and in 2007 our point differential was -5.

The tough-luck losses against J'ville, Arizona, Indy and Tennessee make our W-L look worse than we really ought to be. Yes, there's been a knack for shooting ourselves in the foot but who's to say those breaks don't turn for us next year the way they've turned against us this year?

So, what I'm trying to say is that if Kubiak is fired, I understand it. If he isn't, I understand that too.

That's me right there. I can't imagine losing those six games the way we did this year in the same way next year.

[bckey]

We won't have an easy schedule next year like we did this year. NFC east is a lot tougher than the NFC west. The Texans picked the wrong year to blow all their close games. And don't forget. Kubiak can't beat the teams in our own division. The Texans lost 4 division games in a row. Now that is about as good of an example as you can get of playing poorly under pressure.

[WMH]

Originally Posted by bckey

The Texans picked the wrong year to blow all their close games. And don't forget. Kubiak can't beat the teams in our own division. The Texans lost 4 division games in a row. Now that is about as good of an example as you can get of playing poorly under pressure.

You are flip flopping in your response.
The Texans picked the wrong year to blow all their close games.
- This is not all on the coaching staff. Kubiak and his staff had the guys in a position to win, and they didn't.
Kubiak can't beat the teams in the division.
- He doesn't play....IMO, we have been in position to win all but 1 of our games. The players didn't execute.
The Texans lost 4 division games in a row.
- Yepper, but again, the coaching staff had them in position to win these same games.
Playing poorly under pressure.
- Again, this is the players. The game plan has been there (for the most part) for us to be in position for us to win.

IMO, Kubiak has had some growing pains over the last couple of years, but let's not forget where we came from. With the exception of game 1, we have been in every single game this year. They have not always turned out the way we hoped, but to me personally, as someone who has been around since the beginning, I am happy with the direction we are headed, and think Kubes can get us there. I was beyond pissed at the HB pass @ JAX, but man, Dressen really was WIDE OPEN. If it would have worked, he would have looked like a genius, it didn't so he looked like an idiot. I got over it, and see what the potential is again for the future. If we change, we are going to get blown up, no doubt about it. Offense will change, defense will change, and we will rebuild. Is that really what you want? Not me. While I have been patient, I am inching towards impatient.

And while I am certainly disappointed that I will be nothing more than a casual fan again this January, I am already getting excited about free agency, the draft, training camp.....and here we go again. I have not realistically had this for the past 8 years.

We get a decent back, a couple more fat guys, and some help in the secondary we will be in the hunt again next year.

Go and ahead and sign me up for the 10-11 season. I am in!

[kRocket]

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

I didn't vote because I'm not going to be shattered either way. He hasn't done much this year to recommend himself for another year and yet the Ws and Ls are a bit deceiving.

Houston, at 6-7, has a point differential of +38. That's more than 8-5 Denver (+26), 7-6 NY Giants (+12) and 7-6 Miami (-14). In 2008, our point differential was -28 and in 2007 our point differential was -5.

The tough-luck losses against J'ville, Arizona, Indy and Tennessee make our W-L look worse than we really ought to be. Yes, there's been a knack for shooting ourselves in the foot but who's to say those breaks don't turn for us next year the way they've turned against us this year?

So, what I'm trying to say is that if Kubiak is fired, I understand it. If he isn't, I understand that too.

This post, no deference to Bob, co-indicts both Schaub and Kubiak as co-conspirators in the 2009 death of the Texans. It points out that Schaub is a great QB without the pressure on (see the Seattle game), with the game on the line he can't make it happen, Kubiak can't do anything about it, and the running game sucks which makes it hard to win or maintain leads in close games, Kubiak et al can't make adjustments at the half (see a whole bunch of games). I won't drone on.

[mussop]

Originally Posted by WMH

You are flip flopping in your response.
The Texans picked the wrong year to blow all their close games.
- This is not all on the coaching staff. Kubiak and his staff had the guys in a position to win, and they didn't.
Kubiak can't beat the teams in the division.
- He doesn't play....IMO, we have been in position to win all but 1 of our games. The players didn't execute.
The Texans lost 4 division games in a row.
- Yepper, but again, the coaching staff had them in position to win these same games.
Playing poorly under pressure.
- Again, this is the players. The game plan has been there (for the most part) for us to be in position for us to win.

IMO, Kubiak has had some growing pains over the last couple of years, but let's not forget where we came from. With the exception of game 1, we have been in every single game this year. They have not always turned out the way we hoped, but to me personally, as someone who has been around since the beginning, I am happy with the direction we are headed, and think Kubes can get us there. I was beyond pissed at the HB pass @ JAX, but man, Dressen really was WIDE OPEN. If it would have worked, he would have looked like a genius, it didn't so he looked like an idiot. I got over it, and see what the potential is again for the future. If we change, we are going to get blown up, no doubt about it. Offense will change, defense will change, and we will rebuild. Is that really what you want? Not me. While I have been patient, I am inching towards impatient.

And while I am certainly disappointed that I will be nothing more than a casual fan again this January, I am already getting excited about free agency, the draft, training camp.....and here we go again. I have not realistically had this for the past 8 years.

We get a decent back, a couple more fat guys, and some help in the secondary we will be in the hunt again next year.

Go and ahead and sign me up for the 10-11 season. I am in!

Sorry but count me in the let him go group. Im tired of excuses and

consistently see too many opportunities to do the little things winning teams do, that we don't do. Like pick up additional yardage with 8 seconds on the clock and 1 timeout. Or try to get the ball to your best player inside the 10 yard line, not have him block on a play most saw coming.

4 years is long enough for someone to turn a team into a winner. Kubiak has failed to do so and other coaches have done it quicker and with no more to work with than Kubiak has had.

Kubiak's is too loyal to players and coaches that suck. Myers should be gone. Richard Smith should have been gone after his first season. Weaver was kept around too long. Chris Brown still sucks.

Cowher says he won't talk to any teams that still have a coach.

we are 1-5 in or division this year, and we got the 1 win against a team that was starting an 0-6 run. Kubiak has built a team whose achilles heel is the teams in its own division.

Every D in the league knows Schaub can only audible to run plays....so he doesn't audible.

McNair gave Dom Capers the boot as his head coach after four playoff-less seasons, and Kubiak now deserves the exact same treatment. Despite having some of the most gifted players in the league at several positions, the Texans lack heart, killer instinct and the know-how to win. If that's not a reflection on a head coach's leadership, what pray tell is?

four years without one winning season is failure.

do we hope Kubiak pulls it together next season and give him another year? And, if we do give him another year and he doesn't pull it off, we'll fire him, but that would put us a year behind where we COULD HAVE BEEN had we fired him THIS year.

Miami, Atlanta, Denver, New Orleans, I could go on. Teams can switch coaches and immediately make the playoffs.

am not for firing Kubiak just to fire him. it has to be an upgrade and this is the year for hiring a top head coach.

are you really going to bring Kubiak back as a lame duck coach without a contract or God forbid, re-sign him to an extension?

All of the stupid mistakes are on the coaches as much as the players.

Is it out of the question to think a new coach, with different strengths and weaknesses, might correct some of the long running problems with this team while building on the foundation Kubiak has put in place?

Kubiak has only managed to beat Capers best record by one win...in 3 years. For a guy who has brought the team so far he sure does have a crappy record.

Given the Jekyll / Hyde of this team this team has shown from one half to the next in every game this year (w/ poss. exception of Bengals) one of two things must be true. Either: A) Kubiak & Co. performed miracles keepng us tied / ahead in games we had no business being in. or.. B) We are really as talented as we looked in the "good" half and the other half was so dreadfully coached, executed, etc. that it was painful to watch.

inability to win an important game or have more than 5 wins before week 14 in 3 years and 48 regular season games.

2009 - Week 13 - 5-7
2008 - Week 13 - 5-7
2007 - Week 13 - 5-7

At the end of the season, you are what your record says you are. When it's obvious that the talent has improved, but the record stays the same...who do you blame?

If this "improved" team finishes 8-8 next year, do you give Kubiak a new contract or let him go?

But can anybody really argue that Kubiak himself has improved? Does anyone yet have any confidence in Kubiak's clock management? Does anyone yet have any confidence in his game preparation? Does anybody yet have any confidence in his ability to make in-game adjustments? Does anybody yet have any confidence that, when the game is on the line, Kubiak will make the right decisions?

The team has improved under Kubiak. The Texans have better, more talented personnel. They're no longer the abomination of a team that they were pre-Kubiak. But Kubiak is still making the same mistakes he made in his first season. If he's not going to get any better at his job, then why should he be kept around to drag the team down?

these are the teams that haven't made the playoffs since 2002. There's always next year!

Detroit Lions
Buffalo Bills
Houston Texans

44 Kubiak coached games and absolutely zero big wins.

they come out of the bye with the idea that Chris Brown is their best option at HB... Moats looked great at Indy and today yet he couldn't get touches even with Slaton sidelined.

In the off-season, they inexplicably don't address the safety position. So, they are content with Barber, Wilson, and Ferguson as primary backup. We had cap room and also players like Sean Jones available for almost nothing.

Why on earth is Kyle Shanahan more qualified to call plays than Matt Schaub? Schaub's intelligent and knows what he's doing. Instead, they continue to handcuff him by not allowing him to call audibles.

Richard Smith lasted 3 seasons! that's too long. If you're working with a guy every day for years, it shouldn't take 3 years to realize he's a moron!

Correcting inconsistent play is the head coach's responsibility, plain and simple.

If Kubiak comes back next year, do they know how much pressure they will be under? It's going to be insane. If Gary even blinks wrong the fans are going to kill him.

One thing is for certain: It would be difficult to bring in any new assistants, when they know Kubiak is in his last season. So, McNair had better hope none of his assistants decide to retire (like Alex Gibbs) or move on to other club (like baby Shanny following his dad somewhere). It would also be difficult to sign a top free agent, when the coaching situation is unstabilized.

4 years is a long time period in the NFL. The average NFL career is less than 4 years. Most NFL player contracts are 4 years or less. A team has to be built in less than 4 years, or the players you are building around will be gone. That's just the reality that is the NFL. Great organizations realize this and constantly reload their talent. While winning.

What good is a top 10 YPG offense if it cant score when the game is on the line?

McDaniels will accomplish something in his first season that Kubiak has failed to in four. It's about results. It's about performance. Kubiak has a 4 year track record. And that record clearly show that he has not gotten the job done.

The coach also has to play the players who give them the best opportunity to win. Chris Brown doesn't give us the best chance to win, yet we gave him the ball in crucial situations that contributed to 3 of our losses. That's on the coach for not getting the ball to a better player (like maybe that Andre Johnson guy?)

You know, it's the same thing EVERY year. We pick up rather meaningless wins in meaningless December games. I don't care that we won the Seattle game by 27 points. It doesn't really matter. I'm watching to see if the problems that we have been suffering from all season are getting worked out. And they aren't.

Who the hell let's the foot off the gas in the second half like that seriously.. put them away keep your foot on the gas and keep going. Another playing not to lose half by Gary Kubiak,

The Texans are 7-25 against teams with winning records in the Kubiak era.

[TheMatrix31]

Polish is the coaches' job. The Texans have no polish. I understand losing one or two games the way we did...but six?

[popanot]

This "if the breaks went our way" argument is silly. Most of the games 'that we could have won' were games that would have gone into OT had they made a play or two, and thus, no guaranteed win. On the flip side, we had a few wins that we could have easily lost (the first Titans game, for example). Our record and team is what it is - and that's average, mediocre, decent - however you want to put it. You make your breaks, you don't sit there hope they happen.

The thing that chaps me the most about Kubiak is, yes we're improved - which I'd hope we'd be after being at the bottom, but we STILL have the same glaring needs that we did when he got here. No pass rush, no running game, sub-par OL, sub-par Secondary. Most of these issues have improved slightly, but they're still huge issues. It's been 4 years! You would think that at least one or two of those areas would be resolved or a strength by now. What is the strength of this team? What is its identity?? It doesn't have one.

IMO, the team has evolved and improved mostly because we've had numerous high picks, some of the young players have matured, and Schaub has been a major upgrade to Carr. Kubiak has had a hand in that as well, but I feel the team has peaked with him at the helm. Time for a someone else to come in and give it a try.

[Arky]

One more draft, one more offseason, one more year. Less than 10 wins in 2010 = time for a change.

[nunusguy]

I'm gonna withhold my vote to the end of the season to see what kind of record the Texans end up with, though our Division record is already complete and it's really difficult to say a 1-5 record is acceptable.

[gunn]

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

The tough-luck losses against J'ville, Arizona, Indy and Tennessee make our W-L look worse than we really ought to be. Yes, there's been a knack for shooting ourselves in the foot but who's to say those breaks don't turn for us next year the way they've turned against us this year?

Just to touch on this... I think it all boils down to running the ball and stopping the run. If you can't do either effectively you are, as a team, going to struggle with consistancy and being able to put away those close games. Those breaks tend to go your way when you can dominate at the point of attack.

[Joshua]

I think Kubiak has had a fair shake and simply hasn't gotten it done. It's time to go. With the way the league is currently structured, it doesn't take 4 years to have one single winning season.

The way I see it, Kubiak's tenure should be judged in 2 areas. His coaching; i.e., team preparation and gameday calls and the team he has built (I think most agree he is mostly responsible for putting together this team). As for his coaching, I've been consistently underwhelmed. As others have noted, terrible clock management, adjustments, etc. At least 2 or 3 games a year, the team looks woefully unprepared. Finally, I don't think we've ever sniffed out a trick play. Seems like anytime the opposing team tries a little trickery, we are left completely flat footed (fake punts, wildcat last year, etc.).

As for the team he has put together, I do think the talent has been upgraded but (as someone else said somewhere else) the sum seems to be less the its parts. To me, this is the essence of a coach and where they should be judged. Do you do more with less or less with more? At the end of the day, the only above average unit we have is our pass offense. However, Kubiak inherited the centerpiece of that (AJ). He has used 3 picks on TEs (Daniels, Casey, and Hill), 2 picks on WR (Jacoby and Anderson), and free agency money on Jeb Putzier, Joel Dressen, Andre Davis, and Kevin Walter. Quite frankly, our passing game should be good considering all of these resources have gone into it and AJ was already here.

Finally, I don't understand his player evaluation. As said above, the fact that the Texans thought they were set at safety going into the season is mindboggling. I don't see how a pro personnel guy could have looked at our safeties and thought we were fine and didn't even need to bring in anyone for a look. I'm equally perplexed by his constant juggling of guys into and out of the lineup. Does he not have an opinion as to who is better? One week Okam starts, the next he doesn't dress. Same goes with Deljuan. With our running backs, one week Moats is the starter, the next he can't get a carry (in week 12 no less). How is Kubiak still trying to decide who is the better back in week 12? Isn't that what training camp is for?

In all, he's clearly added some talent to this team for which he is to be commended, but we nevertheless underperform in virtually every area other than our passing game. On top of this, his gameday preparation and execution is often lacking and I don't think I've ever finished a game thinking "Boy, Kubiak really pantsed (___fill in name of coach here___) today!" Finally, the team is clearly lacking in confidence and swagger and Kubiak seems to lack both. He seems to get just as tight and worried as the players when it seems like the game is slipping away. For instance, while I know it is a incredibly minor thing, it bothers me he won't watch a critical kick. You are the coach and the players expect you to lead. This is not the confidence I would like to see from my leader.

Finally, if I may ask one question. I often hear that Kubiak is not responsible for the execution and that's on the players. I get that to a degree, but if you don't judge Kubiak by how the team executes, what are you judging him on? Do you solely look at his playcalls and assuming that they aren't atrocious, you put everything from that point forward on the players? By this standard, would a coach ever be fired?

[Mike]

This is an argument that whatever your opinion is, I think it can be supported, making the decision difficult.

Reasons against:

1) They did not win the close games this year. close out opponents.
2) There is a percived notion that he is not bad a$$ enough. (I doubt this is the case behind closed doors)
3) clock management and game management issues. (I think these are not as prevalent in 2009 as in the past).
4) the team has underachieved the past two years, and put on late season run to 8-8, and 2009 might be the same.
5) Inability to get AJ the ball in the close games this year.

Reasons for:
1) He inherited a pile of crap, now we have one of the best passing schemes in the NFL.
2) IMO, the talent level has improved each year.
3) Schaub while not always healthy has improved each year. I think he would even have better numbers this year with ANY rushing game. We have hardly ran the boots and play action is non-existent with lack of run game.
4) defense has improved under Frank Bush
5) With the exception of the Jets game, I think he has put the players in a position to win each game. Players win games, I think Kubes has given them the chance to win. (take away C and K Brown misques).
6) In his tenure, they might not have always played smart or clean, but I think this team NEVER lacks effort.
7) Change does not mean that there will be better results.

IMO, I voted that we keep him. Cowher is not coming here, Gruden wears out organizations and another coordinator does not equal instant success.
We are in good cap shape, seem to have drafted well in his eta and can fill in the deficient areas.

[painekiller]

Not yet, I am in favor of one more year. Cowher will set this franchise back with the install of his system, Gruden is not my favorite, he is worse than Kubiak in wanting older guys ,and not developing the younger players.

[NBT]

I think it was Bum who said, I can beat you with our'n, and I can beat you with your'n. If that doesn't mean coaching is the defining thing, I don't know what would be. Kubiak is just not going to get the job done. Why not realize that now, and go ahead and make the move? He can fall on his sword for the players all he wants to but the bottom line is he has had four years to do it, and, while we have improved, we still aren't any closer to the SB than we were.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by NBT

I think it was Bum who said, I can beat you with our'n, and I can beat you with your'n. If that doesn't mean coaching is the defining thing, I don't know what would be. Kubiak is just not going to get the job done. Why not realize that now, and go ahead and make the move? He can fall on his sword for the players all he wants to but the bottom line is he has had four years to do it, and, while we have improved, we still aren't any closer to the SB than we were.

Bum was referring to

(referring to Don Shula) "He can take his'n and beat your'n and take your'n and beat his'n."

from Wikipedia.

[NBT]

You wouldn't think this would be true, but the coach still has to motivate his pro players just like they do in college.

[Nconroe]

And most likely the great players are motivated no matter who coach is. an inverse saying is something like the coach ain't nothing without the players. plenty of so called good coaches, SB winning, some of us like, but now looking for work because of what - bad seasons.