Casey vs. Dreesen

Big Texas · #1 11-01-2009, 04:39 PM

By all accounts it looks as though Daniels is done for the year.

For all you guys that believe that Daniels was a product of the system, and Casey was our insurance plan for the future. We will definitely see now. Me personally, if he can't beat out Dreesen for the starting job it was an overpriced pick.

For the Texans sake, I hope he is every bit as good as they have been hyping him up to be.

barrett · #2 11-01-2009, 05:13 PM

The Texans never hyped him to be anything. He was a 5th round pick. The wasted pick was Hill.

TheMatrix31 · #3 11-01-2009, 05:36 PM

I hate waking up from such an awesome nap to this news. ****************.

HPF Bob · #4 11-01-2009, 06:01 PM

I think Casey is *capable* of being as good as Daniels but I don't know if he's ready to be Daniels right now. His hands are incredible.

Dreesen will probably get the first look though. He doesn't have OD's speed but is probably a better blocker.

Big Texas · #5 11-01-2009, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrett

The Texans never hyped him to be anything. He was a 5th round pick. The wasted pick was Hill.

Not saying that he was initially hyped. but since training camp he has been praised as having excellent potential.

I'm just saying I hope he lives up to it.

Nconroe · #6 11-01-2009, 06:34 PM

If they do IR OD, not for sure yet is it?, wonder who or which position they might move to 53 man roster? I guess they might move Hill to the active 45 players group and have 3 TE available. In preseason I thought they all played ok. Thought Hill had an injury was one reason he was inactive. I think Dreesen deserves to start, and likely they will have some sets designed for Casey as well, maybe even a catch for Hill. Man, OD was having such a good year, I'm sure we'll miss him the next few weeks.

NBT · #7 11-01-2009, 07:00 PM

My heart really goes out to OD. What a crummy thing to happen when he was just set to really make a big payday. Hope it is not as serious as they are saying, although they say he is through for the year.

WMH · #8 11-01-2009, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nconroe

If they do IR OD, not for sure yet is it?, wonder who or which position they might move to 53 man roster? I guess they might move Hill to the active 45 players group and have 3 TE available. In preseason I thought they all played ok. Thought Hill had an injury was one reason he was inactive. I think Dreesen deserves to start, and likely they will have some sets designed for Casey as well, maybe even a catch for Hill. Man, OD was having such a good year, I'm sure we'll miss him the next few weeks.

Saw this quote in the Chronic story:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...t/6697657.html

Dreessen will move up a spot. Rookie James Casey, who caught the first two passes of his career, will become the second tight end. Rookie Anthony Hill, who was inactive, will be part of the game-day roster because offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan likes to use three tight end formations.

RunninRaven · #9 11-02-2009, 09:37 AM

I know Casey's hands are good enough to replace OD's right now. I'm curious to see about his route running and "nose for the football." I remember being intrigued about that aspect of Daniel's game even when he was a rookie. He just seemed to get open, however he managed to do it. Always found the open spot on the field and get whatever was thrown his way (for the most part). That ability is something that is hard to quantify and I don't know if Casey will be able to fill in adequately in that regard. Dreesen might come close as he seems to have a nose for the football as well. I will be curious to see what kind of production we can get out of these guys for the remainder of the season.

papabear · #10 11-02-2009, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Texas

Me personally, if he can't beat out Dreesen for the starting job it was an overpriced pick.

For the Texans sake, I hope he is every bit as good as they have been hyping him up to be.

I don't know about that...I think Dreesen has been severely underappreciated by the Texans fans. I don't think he will ever go to any pro-bowls, but he's got good hands, seems to run good routes, and is WAY ahead of Casey in the blocking game right now.

Casey will likely make some big plays, but I would guess that Dreesen still sees the majority of the action...at least for the first few weeks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrett

The Texans never hyped him to be anything. He was a 5th round pick. The wasted pick was Hill.

I think it's way to early to say that Hill was a wasted pick.

I think Hill was brought in to fill the blocking TE role that Bruener had. Casey was just a case of a guy who the Texans had a decent grade on who lasted much longer than they were expecting. They obviously felt like Hill filled a bigger hole for them or they wouldn't have passed on Casey to take him. I would guess that Casey was the highest graded player on the board by far. I think the reason Casey has been active more is that he has been better on special teams...and Kubiak's realized that we were going to be a pass first team so the special team factor combined with the fact that it doesn't llok like we are going to be pounding the ball out of 3 TE sets often means Casey has seen more of the field.

NBT · #11 11-02-2009, 10:53 AM

I know OD was a former QB, which helped him have a "nose for the ball". IIRC I heard that Casey is also a former QB. As a matter of fact, Rice was planning on using him at QB this year until he decided to turn pro. So we shall see I guess.

barrett · #12 11-02-2009, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papabear

I don't know about that...I think Dreesen has been severely underappreciated by the Texans fans. I don't think he will ever go to any pro-bowls, but he's got good hands, seems to run good routes, and is WAY ahead of Casey in the blocking game right now.

Casey will likely make some big plays, but I would guess that Dreesen still sees the majority of the action...at least for the first few weeks.

I think it's way to early to say that Hill was a wasted pick.

I think Hill was brought in to fill the blocking TE role that Bruener had. Casey was just a case of a guy who the Texans had a decent grade on who lasted much longer than they were expecting. They obviously felt like Hill filled a bigger hole for them or they wouldn't have passed on Casey to take him. I would guess that Casey was the highest graded player on the board by far. I think the reason Casey has been active more is that he has been better on special teams...and Kubiak's realized that we were going to be a pass first team so the special team factor combined with the fact that it doesn't llok like we are going to be pounding the ball out of 3 TE sets often means Casey has seen more of the field.

I don't think it's too early. He could be the best blocking TE in the NFL and I wouldn't spend a 4th on him.

papabear · #13 11-02-2009, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrett

I don't think it's too early. He could be the best blocking TE in the NFL and I wouldn't spend a 4th on him.

I don't agree with that at all. Not saying that I really enjoy using high draft picks on blocking TE...but Breuner was able to play 14 years as a TE in the NFL and Hill is much more of threat in the passing game than Breuner ever was. It's a completely different system, and a different era really, so it's not a fair comparison but the Steelers spent a first round pick on a Blocking TE in Bruener. Hill also caught 45 balls as a sophomore so it's not like he has no ability as a receiver (though he did drop several balls in the pre-season)

Granted that Hill hasn't done anything to impress me at all this season, or pre-season, or even the couple of training camp practices I went too....but mid-way through his first year in the league is too early to give up on a player. From a general philosophical standpoint blockingh TE and FB's aren't the sexiest picks, and while I wouldn't want to take any of them in the first or second round I think if you've got one that you think fits you go ahead and take them if thats the way the cards fall.

barrett · #14 11-02-2009, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papabear

I don't agree with that at all. Not saying that I really enjoy using high draft picks on blocking TE...but Breuner was able to play 14 years as a TE in the NFL and Hill is much more of threat in the passing game than Breuner ever was. It's a completely different system, and a different era really, so it's not a fair comparison but the Steelers spent a first round pick on a Blocking TE in Bruener. Hill also caught 45 balls as a sophomore so it's not like he has no ability as a receiver (though he did drop several balls in the pre-season)

Granted that Hill hasn't done anything to impress me at all this season, or pre-season, or even the couple of training camp practices I went too....but mid-way through his first year in the league is too early to give up on a player. From a general philosophical standpoint blockingh TE and FB's aren't the sexiest picks, and while I wouldn't want to take any of them in the first or second round I think if you've got one that you think fits you go ahead and take them if thats the way the cards fall.

Whether Hill can catch it is not what is relevant here. They didn't draft him to catch it when they already had OD and Dreesen on the roster. They drafted him to replace Bruener, a guy who was on the field for less than %25 of the snaps. And they didn't view him as a potential starting TE if they still went ahead and took Casey a round later.

They spent a 4th round pick on a situational luxury pick. It's a wasted pick even if he blocks great.

This has nothing to do with Hill or his performance but rather with drafting a guy to be the backup TE in the 4th round.

nunusguy · #15 11-02-2009, 03:43 PM

More problems at TE - Kubiak just said in his presser Casey had a scope this morning on a knee and he's out until after the Bye week. (Lets hope he's back then ?) I didn't even know Casey was injured yesterday ?
They are going to wait 'bout 2 weeks until the swelling is down and then OD will have his season-ending surgery. So it's now official about the season being over for OD.

Joe Joe · #16 11-02-2009, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrett

Whether Hill can catch it is not what is relevant here. They didn't draft him to catch it when they already had OD and Dreesen on the roster. They drafted him to replace Bruener, a guy who was on the field for less than %25 of the snaps. And they didn't view him as a potential starting TE if they still went ahead and took Casey a round later.

They spent a 4th round pick on a situational luxury pick. It's a wasted pick even if he blocks great.

This has nothing to do with Hill or his performance but rather with drafting a guy to be the backup TE in the 4th round.

He's not a very risky pick. Hill will most likely become a good TE in short yardage sets as there are not as many run blocking TEs coming out of colleges any more. He does have a chance at becoming an every down TE as he has the hands and is a big target.

papabear · #17 11-02-2009, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrett

Whether Hill can catch it is not what is relevant here. They didn't draft him to catch it when they already had OD and Dreesen on the roster. They drafted him to replace Bruener, a guy who was on the field for less than %25 of the snaps. And they didn't view him as a potential starting TE if they still went ahead and took Casey a round later.

They spent a 4th round pick on a situational luxury pick. It's a wasted pick even if he blocks great.

This has nothing to do with Hill or his performance but rather with drafting a guy to be the backup TE in the 4th round.

I understand what your saying I just don't agree with it on philosophical basis. Most fourth round picks, regardless of position, are likely to be back-ups. You hope that you hit a few home runs and find some guys who are instant starters and develop into stars, but that is the exception and not the rule. More often than not if you can just find a guy who plays a role, even a small one, and contributes on special teams (and hopefully develops into a more complete player) you are ahead of the curve. I also doubt that the Texans front office said this guy is never going to be more than a third TE, let's go ahead and take him. Jacoby Jones is probably on the field for 25% of the snaps, and that's just this year that he's started seeing more time as a WR, but that doesn't mean he doesn't play a useful role.

I would have preferred they went another route in the fourth, and thought the Casey pick was especially redundant(though it looks much smarter now), because at least with the Hill pick they went and got a guy who filled a role completely different from what we had on the team already.

I agree with you in the sense that we aren't deep enough across the board to start taking specialist early, but as the overall team talent gets better that becomes a luxury bad teams don't have.

I just can't agree that taking a blocking back-up TE in the fourth is automatically a waste.

barrett · #18 11-02-2009, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papabear

I understand what your saying I just don't agree with it on philosophical basis. Most fourth round picks, regardless of position, are likely to be back-ups. You hope that you hit a few home runs and find some guys who are instant starters and develop into stars, but that is the exception and not the rule. More often than not if you can just find a guy who plays a role, even a small one, and contributes on special teams (and hopefully develops into a more complete player) you are ahead of the curve. I also doubt that the Texans front office said this guy is never going to be more than a third TE, let's go ahead and take him. Jacoby Jones is probably on the field for 25% of the snaps, and that's just this year that he's started seeing more time as a WR, but that doesn't mean he doesn't play a useful role.

I would have preferred they went another route in the fourth, and thought the Casey pick was especially redundant(though it looks much smarter now), because at least with the Hill pick they went and got a guy who filled a role completely different from what we had on the team already.

I agree with you in the sense that we aren't deep enough across the board to start taking specialist early, but as the overall team talent gets better that becomes a luxury bad teams don't have.

I just can't agree that taking a blocking back-up TE in the fourth is automatically a waste.

Fair enough. Like I said, I don't disagree with Hill and am not judging him, just the slot and the position.

Either way I would love for him to all of a sudden look like a starting TE right about now.

But I think it will be David Anderson that replaces most of OD's production.

papabear · #19 11-02-2009, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrett

Fair enough. Like I said, I don't disagree with Hill and am not judging him, just the slot and the position.

Either way I would love for him to all of a sudden look like a starting TE right about now.

But I think it will be David Anderson that replaces most of OD's production.

Hill and Anderson are both going to have to step up big time now....just saw where Casey had a minor procedure on his knee and will be out at least this week.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6698814.html

When it rains it pours....

Nconroe · #20 11-02-2009, 05:09 PM

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/St...?STORY_ID=5766

Yes, wow, two TE's , OD for the year and Casey out till Nov. 23 prediction.

Kevin Walter and JJ have reasonable size as well to help fill this role. Then Andre Davis and Anderson can be wideouts, so I guess a lot of options with good skilled players.