Official Texans vs. Jaguars Game Thread, 9/28/2009

[Arky]

Ruling on the field is confirmed. Jags ball at the 20. Texans with 1 timeout left.

MJD for no gain.

MJD for 5. 3rd and 5. 1:09 left in the game.

Horsecollar tackle on Mario ought to do it.

Jags kneel it out.

Final score:

Jags 31, Texans 24

Goodness...

[sinnister]

This one was on the defense. We are in dire need of a playmaking safety.

[mussop]

Originally Posted by sinnister

This one was on the defense. We are in dire need of a playmaking safety.

Safety isnt he big issue. Its the DC. We have enough talent on this team to not be giving up 30 plus points to the likes of Jacksonville. Richard Smith's defense was better than this.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by mussop

Safety isnt he big issue. Its the DC. We have enough talent on this team to not be giving up 30 plus points to the likes of Jacksonville. Richard Smith's defense was better than this.

No its the safety. And though I'd love a playmaker, I'd settle for a guy who can tackle. Or a guy who can cover. I don't even need both. Just one or the other would be fine.

But somehow for the last 3 years we have put strong safeties on the field who not only can't cover, but they make up for it by not hitting or tackling.

Watch Barber on the last MJD TD run from inside the 10. Barber actually runs by MJD without realizing he has the ball. He literally dismisses him while MJD goes by him at walking speed.

At least Wilson can cover. He may not be able to tackle anyone, and he takes bad angles and is slow, but he has a single football skill. He can play centerfield and has the instincts to make a play within his limited range.

Please tell me what positive football characteristic Barber/Ferguson/Busing/etc has. None can tackle. None can hit. None can cover. None can run. None have any instincts. Not one actual football skill in the lot. And the same can be said for Fred Bennett. He may be a worse tackler than Philip Buchanon. Or maybe it is just that he is about as willing to hit as Buchanon was.

We have one guy in the entire secondary that will tackle and that is our 180 lb CB.

When 1 out of 10 running plays gets to the second level, that is not a scheme issue. It is not a LB/DL issue. It is normal for the NFL. But when 3/4 plays that hit the 2nd level go for TDs, that is a problem.

We might as well line up in a 4-4 and make teams pass to beat us though because our secondary is worthless vs the run.

[chuck]

Originally Posted by barrett

Please tell me what positive football characteristic Barber/Ferguson/Busing/etc has. None can tackle. None can hit. None can cover. None can run. None have any instincts. Not one actual football skill in the lot. And the same can be said for Fred Bennett. He may be a worse tackler than Philip Buchanon. Or maybe it is just that he is about as willing to hit as Buchanon was.

We have one guy in the entire secondary that will tackle and that is our 180 lb CB.

As you surely know you and I are often at football loggerheads, and that's fine with me. I don't want everyone to agree with all of my points and I appreciate being challenged on what I think and see by thoughtful people.

But you and I are on the same page here. The safeties have always been terrible, and Bennett has no discernible upside.

The Houston Texans are an irrelevant NFL franchise and I am completely sick of it and will not support it any longer.

[mussop]

Originally Posted by barrett

No its the safety. And though I'd love a playmaker, I'd settle for a guy who can tackle. Or a guy who can cover. I don't even need both. Just one or the other would be fine.

But somehow for the last 3 years we have put strong safeties on the field who not only can't cover, but they make up for it by not hitting or tackling.

Watch Barber on the last MJD TD run from inside the 10. Barber actually runs by MJD without realizing he has the ball. He literally dismisses him while MJD goes by him at walking speed.

At least Wilson can cover. He may not be able to tackle anyone, and he takes bad angles and is slow, but he has a single football skill. He can play centerfield and has the instincts to make a play within his limited range.

Please tell me what positive football characteristic Barber/Ferguson/Busing/etc has. None can tackle. None can hit. None can cover. None can run. None have any instincts. Not one actual football skill in the lot. And the same can be said for Fred Bennett. He may be a worse tackler than Philip Buchanon. Or maybe it is just that he is about as willing to hit as Buchanon was.

We have one guy in the entire secondary that will tackle and that is our 180 lb CB.

When 1 out of 10 running plays gets to the second level, that is not a scheme issue. It is not a LB/DL issue. It is normal for the NFL. But when 3/4 plays that hit the 2nd level go for TDs, that is a problem.

We might as well line up in a 4-4 and make teams pass to beat us though because our secondary is worthless vs the run.

I agree they suck but how are these safeties any different than they were last year? We obviously need to upgrade that area but what difference will that make if they line up in the wrong spot? There is no way you can lay the entire suckiness of our defense on the safeties. They are part of the problem but there are bigger issues involved. It starts with coaching. Richard Smith didnt have this problem with pretty much the same secondary. That aught to tell you something right there.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by mussop

I agree they suck but how are these safeties any different than they were last year? We obviously need to upgrade that area but what difference will that make if they line up in the wrong spot? There is no way you can lay the entire suckiness of our defense on the safeties. They are part of the problem but there are bigger issues involved. It starts with coaching. Richard Smith didnt have this problem with pretty much the same secondary. That aught to tell you something right there.

I partially agree with you, but partially disagree.

The reason we didn't get beat like this last year is that Bush is running a scheme that asks the Safeties to be more than warm bodies in the running game. With Smith's defense we basically just conceded small and medium gains in an effort to not give up the big play. Now we play upfield on the DL and make actual stops but then give up big runs as well.

Neither approach is right or wrong, they are right or wrong according to personell. And we are playing a style of defense that our personell does not supprt (mainly our entire secondary minus Dunta cannot tackle or hit). This is where I agree with you. Just look at the teams that play aggressive D and who lines up at safety (Polomalu, Reed, Rhodes). And look at the Eagles D that lost Brian Dawkins and kept blitzing.

You will notice in every thread last year calling for Richard Smith's head, I posted about us playing that way because of personell issues. Then you will notice me screaming at the top of my lungs all offseason for a Safety (if not a 1st then something). And you will notice in all of the preseason threads me saying more aggressive is not necessarily better if you give up big plays.

But the truth is no style or scheme works when your players are bad. That is why I would place the blame in this order.
1) Smith/Kubiak for thinking you can play a winning season with these guys.
2) Our Safeties for being terrible
3) And Frank Bush for running a scheme that cannot possible work with these players.

[sinnister]

Originally Posted by mussop

Safety isnt he big issue. Its the DC. We have enough talent on this team to not be giving up 30 plus points to the likes of Jacksonville. Richard Smith's defense was better than this.

Safety is a huge issue. We have a single, decent safety in Wilson, and that is it. Our safety play today was terrible. Actually, that's a dis on the word terrible. Houston Texan safety play should be the phrase used to describe the worst of the worst.

[HPF Bob]

Originally Posted by sinnister

Safety is a huge issue. We have a single, decent safety in Wilson, and that is it. Our safety play today was terrible. Actually, that's a dis on the word terrible. Houston Texan safety play should be the phrase used to describe the worst of the worst.

Unless there's another 26 in uniform, Wilson sucks. He's "ole'd" so many tackles on the sidelines, it's not funny. And he had that personal foul call as well. Even Busing has caught his disease back there.

As for whether the problem is DC vs DBs, it's both. Bush designed a more aggressive defense which means we'll have more TFLs and more sacls but also more big plays against us because we aren't playing it safe. The problem is that the secondary isn't good enough to play high-risk defense without us getting burned a few times. I actually like the new system better because it beats playing a zone and being picked to death. They just need to find some DBs who can tackle and run all over the field. Right now, we have none.

[TheMatrix31]

That was a painful loss, man.

I told you guys Maurice Drew was going to tear us apart, not like it was going out on any limb or anything.

[popanot]

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

As for whether the problem is DC vs DBs, it's both. Bush designed a more aggressive defense which means we'll have more TFLs and more sacls but also more big plays against us because we aren't playing it safe. The problem is that the secondary isn't good enough to play high-risk defense without us getting burned a few times. I actually like the new system better because it beats playing a zone and being picked to death. They just need to find some DBs who can tackle and run all over the field. Right now, we have none.

I don't know which team you're watching, but the team I've been watching for the last 3 weeks has NOT gotten all that many sacks (none yesterday, IIRC), has been giving up big plays at an alarming rate AND has been getting picked to death all over the field regardless of down or distance. Maybe they were getting picked to death last year, but at least they weren't giving up a ton of big plays. What that defense did yesterday against, IMO, one of the worst offenses in the league was sickening. Can't wait for that Colts game...

I was one of the proponents calling for Smith's head, but I have to say at this point, his defense was better than this. I don't think I've ever seen a defense give up so many 3rd-long's in my life. And it's not just the fault of the secondary. Where are the sacks? Where's the pressure? Where are the LB hits? No one is making plays - not even Demeco. This whole defense is fking horrible from the coaching to DL/LB/S.

The season's young and maybe these guys can turn it around, but I think the chances are slim. Oh well, we only have 13 more weeks of this suckitude and then we'll move on with another coaching staff who can maybe get something out of these guys. Why they didn't even take a sniff at hiring Gregg Williams as DC when they had the chance is beyond me. Look what he's done with the Aint's defense who has been notoriously bad. I don't recall them having a defense and secondary filled with of Pro Bowlers...

[TexanJedi]

Originally Posted by popanot

The season's young and maybe these guys can turn it around, but I think the chances are slim. Oh well, we only have 13 more weeks of this suckitude and then we'll move on with another coaching staff who can maybe get something out of these guys. Why they didn't even take a sniff at hiring Gregg Williams as DC when they had the chance is beyond me. Look what he's done with the Aint's defense who has been notoriously bad. I don't recall them having a defense and secondary filled with of Pro Bowlers...

It is somewhat amazing to see what the Saints have done on defense (still early though), or Denver for that matter, and they don't have any more talent than Houston save for a very veteran Darren Sharper at safety (and of course Dawkins in Denver). It just seems that when a move is to be made be it in coaching or hiring or even the draft (not so much as of late) or free agency, the Texans are more likely to make the wrong move, hence their record and history of futility. The draft and personnel selection has gotten better no doubt.

It's too early to say but if this proves to be Kubiak's last stand, the thing that concerns me is the fact that in all likelihood, unless he is sacked too, Rick Smith will be picking a new coach. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't like the thought of that. The frustrating thing is this team has talent, certainly more than we have ever had, but they are missing something, execution, discipline or whatever it is. In the event this season ends in disappointment i could see a new coaching staff (the right one, but who's that?) turning things around very quickly.

[Roy P]

This is one of those games we shoulda won. We played well with very little errors. It's just those few plays in which we had errors, we lost points. I'm fine with the performance, but not with the result. Busing has proved to me that he's not the answer. Frank Bush has got to get some better results from his players. Still trying to figure out why we didn't go after Sean Jones in free agency. Zac Diles played o.k. but still am hopeful to get Weatherspoon in the draft if we can't get a Safety in the 1st round.

Man I hate losing to the Jags.

[NBT]

Originally Posted by Arky

Horsecollar tackle on Mario ought to do it.

Why was it a horsecollar on Mario behind the LOS, and it wasn't a horsecollar on in the Titans game when Schaubie was horsecollared? I do not understand this stupid rule. Seems like it works for everyone except the Texans.

[NBT]

I hate losing to any division opponent.

[NBT]

Sorry to see ya go, but so long Chuck. The Texans will be back even if you won't.

[chuck]

Originally Posted by NBT

Sorry to see ya go, but so long Chuck. The Texans will be back even if you won't.

First of all, you're not a season ticket holder so your opinion carries no financial commitment. Please continue to talk out your ass - like you alway do - for free. Second, back? Back from what? Last place?

[Fonz the Boss]

The defensive problems cannot be fixed this year. They are not going to sign a player that all of a sudden makes the defense great. I dont think changing defensive schemes can do anything to change a below average defense. We need competent players in our secondary or else we will continue to get torched. I think its safe to assume that there wont be any playoffs this year. The surprising horrible start by the Titans at least gives us a chance to compete against the Colts for the division title. But then again saying we have a chance to win the division is laughable after this defeat.

[Mike]

To quote Jim Mora "that sucked.". Started with no build up to pregame player intro's to
No ingame stats (if you blink you miss them.). Horrid third down defense, a crappy call on
KW to the Chris Brown fumble. We had a chance to tie it and possibly win it with a coin toss.

However, it should not have come down to that. The defense was bad. Fred was abused ALL day.

[NBT]

Originally Posted by chuck

First of all, you're not a season ticket holder so your opinion carries no financial commitment. Please continue to talk out your ass - like you alway do - for free. Second, back? Back from what? Last place?

Tsh, Tsh, Tsh, we do get angry don't we.