Okam seems ready to step up in year 2

[dalemurphy]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

If Okam really were to reach "his potential" (which I'm very doubful of), then the teams defensive direction should be obvious: convert to the 3-4. Okam would be our NT and Mario and AS would both be excellenct 3-4 DEs. ILBs would be DeMeco & Diles and I think Cushing could play strong-side OLB
in the 3-4 just as he's going to be doing in the 4-3. And Barwin would be over on the weak side, as practically everybody feels that Barwin's "natural poistion" in the NFL is as a 3-4 OLB.
What to do about Okoye ? Time to be honest with ourselves and cut our losses now - he just isn't gonna be the player in the NFL Smith & Kubiak hoped he would be. Not as a 4-3 one-gapper DT or anywhere else - lot a guys do well in college (especially in their senior year), and have disappointing pro careers.
And we sure can't use him in the 3-4.

Are you serious with this post?

First, there is no need to convert to a 4-3 simply because we found a guy that can play NT in it. The Ravens championship team played a 4-3 and had two guys (Sam Adams and Siragusa) that fit that description. Barwin comes into the league bigger and stronger than Dwight Freeney did and Jason Taylor- among others, who were both excellent DEs in 4-3 Defenses. Clearly, Brian Cushing fits the profile of a SLB in a 4-3. Most disturbing about your post is that you think we should go ahead and "cut our losses now" with Okoye. You don't think it's a little premature to quit on a 1st round talent at DT who is just about to turn 22 years old and entering his 3rd season in the NFL? Finally, our best defensive player (Mario), would become a much less effective playmaker in a 3-4 because he would be moved into the line and play almost every snap as a 5 technique.

[barrett]

Not to mention Demeco is very small to play ILB in the 3-4. Fewer DL in front of him means more OL getting into him, and his biggest weakness is getting off of blocks. And that Mario gets minimized as a pass rusher in the 3-4.

All around it would be a stupid idea to switch 7 guys' positions because one guy fits a 3-4 better.

[Blitzwood]

While I don't totally agree with a previous poster, I don't believe it would be a bad idea to switch to a 3-4 during games to throw off opposing offenses, especially to run blitzes or fake blitzes. I think the ability to have different lineups and looks would make us less predictable on defense and more disruptive in the backfield. Given some of the flexibility we have now on defense, I'd be open to the idea. I think Barwin could play DE, OLB or ILB in a 3-4, as well as Cushing. If Okam is going to have a breakout year, that could be HUGE for us this year with all the recent additions on defense.

I cant wait till August.

[edo783]

I hope you realize that if you use Mario as a DE in a 34 you basically lose all the speed he has? A 34 DEs and NTs primary purpose are to occupy the blockers on the line and allow the LBs to flow to the QB from multiple points. IMO, we would be wasting him, Smith and likely Barwin not to mention that other than Cushing we are more than a little light in the butt at LB. Add to that that as far as I know none of our coaching staff are what could be called 34 gurus. So, it doesn't sound like a very good idea at this pint.

[papabear]

Nice to hear about Okam....but all the "news" this time of year is nothing more than fluff pieces. There just isn't anything else going on.

Mario would be a waste running a conventional 3-4. I have no problem with running multiple fronts, using a 3-4 alignment as a change-up mid-game...but asking Mario to eat up blockers would be totally negating his biggest asset, even though he would be good at it.

One of the things that hurt Demeco on draft day was his size....that problem would only be exacerbated by moving him to a 3-4.

[Bigtinylittle]

I will refuse believe Okam has taken a step up until the day he is promoted to starter. Until then, it's all talk.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by papabear

Mario would be a waste running a conventional 3-4. I have no problem with running multiple fronts, using a 3-4 alignment as a change-up mid-game...but asking Mario to eat up blockers would be totally negating his biggest asset, even though he would be good at it.

There was a time when I would have completely agreed with what your saying here, but the market value, the importance of 3-4 DEs is changing as quickly as teams in the NFL are converting to the 3-4 defense. The best example I can site for this is that former NE personnel man & new Chiefs GM Scott Pioli used his teams 3rd overall pick in this years draft to select dlineman Tyson Jackson to play in the Chiefs 3-4.

[papabear]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

There was a time when I would have completely agreed with what your saying here, but the market value, the importance of 3-4 DEs is changing as quickly as teams in the NFL are converting to the 3-4 defense. The best example I can site for this is that former NE personnel man & new Chiefs GM Scott Pioli used his teams 3rd overall pick in this years draft to select dlineman Tyson Jackson to play in the Chiefs 3-4.

3-4 ends are absolutely vital to the teams success running that system, but that doesn't mean it's a good use of one of the best, freakishly talented, 4-3 ends. I'm not saying they aren't important, only that Mario wouldn't get to use a large portion of his skill set in a traditional 3-4 and to me that is a waste of a guy with once in a generation size and speed. There are variations of the 3-4 now that allow for some 1 gap stuff from the down lineman (I think Wade Phillips does some of this) but in general 3-4 lineman aren't there to make plays. Their job is to eat up blockers and let the linebackers make the plays. 3-4 end and 4-3 end are two different beast....there's a reason no one was looking at Tyson Jackson as a 4-3 end (specifically a RE).

[barrett]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

There was a time when I would have completely agreed with what your saying here, but the market value, the importance of 3-4 DEs is changing as quickly as teams in the NFL are converting to the 3-4 defense. The best example I can site for this is that former NE personnel man & new Chiefs GM Scott Pioli used his teams 3rd overall pick in this years draft to select dlineman Tyson Jackson to play in the Chiefs 3-4.

None of this has anything to do with how Mario Williams is used.

Even if 3-4 DEs are becoming more valuable, we would still be taking our best (only?) pass rusher and limiting his pass rush effectiveness and opportunities. That makes no sense.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

Are you serious with this post?

First, there is no need to convert to a 4-3 simply because we found a guy that can play NT in it. The Ravens championship team played a 4-3 and had two guys (Sam Adams and Siragusa) that fit that description. Barwin comes into the league bigger and stronger than Dwight Freeney did and Jason Taylor- among others, who were both excellent DEs in 4-3 Defenses. Clearly, Brian Cushing fits the profile of a SLB in a 4-3. Most disturbing about your post is that you think we should go ahead and "cut our losses now" with Okoye. You don't think it's a little premature to quit on a 1st round talent at DT who is just about to turn 22 years old and entering his 3rd season in the NFL? Finally, our best defensive player (Mario), would become a much less effective playmaker in a 3-4 because he would be moved into the line and play almost every snap as a 5 technique.

Maybe, just maybe we could get a second-round pick for Okoye, but I suspect it would be more like a third-rounder, especially with his contract.
I'm just not very optimistic about AO and I don't think he's that valuable to us or most other teams.
But AS is much more of a 3-4 DE than he is a 4-3 downlineman, either at
DE or inside at DT. And Mario would be a premier 3-4 DE. Of course he's also a
premier 4-3 DE, I wouldn't deny that. But this whole scenario is based on a hypothesis that Okam could be effective at nose, which would then also permit Barwin to realize his full potential as a 3-4 outside backer and not a downlineman in the 4-3.

[nero THE zero]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

But AS is much more of a 3-4 DE than he is a 4-3 downlineman, either at
DE or inside at DT.

What are you basing that off of?

[NBT]

TJ, in my opinion ws the weak link on the DL last year. He has had time to grow into the guy we wanted, but he continues to underachieve. So when we got Okam in the 5th round last year, I was excited. If Okam can cash in on his potential, we will have a dominant DL, period. I don't want to hear the negativity on Okoye. The hi ankle sprain held him back last year, so give the kid a break for cryin out loud!

[kravix]

Originally Posted by NBT

TJ, in my opinion ws the weak link on the DL last year. He has had time to grow into the guy we wanted, but he continues to underachieve. So when we got Okam in the 5th round last year, I was excited. If Okam can cash in on his potential, we will have a dominant DL, period. I don't want to hear the negativity on Okoye. The hi ankle sprain held him back last year, so give the kid a break for cryin out loud!

I still dont understand the hate TJ gets. He may be listed as a NT, but in my mind he never was and never will be a real NT. The team says he did exactly what they wanted him to do, and TJ has been playing with a high motor sideline to sideline for the last two years.

He was playing out of position for sure, but it is possible that this year we see a def that suits both TJ and Amobi much more than it has in the past.

[HPF Bob]

I agree that switching to a 3-4 is a bad idea and part of my reason is that it is the defense so many teams are switching to - so the talent would be harder to come by on draft day.

The Steelers had success because 3-4 teams switched back to the 4-3 in the late 80s and early 90s to copy the 49ers and Cowboys. The Steelers didn't switch and lapped up all the 3-4 players in the draft who didn't fit the 4-3 mold. Now, teams are trying to copy the Steelers, Ravens and Patriots so they are all rushing back to the 3-4, meaning more 4-3 talent falls to us in the draft.

All that sad, I don't mind if the Texans want to develop a 3-4 look they can toss occasionally at opponents to confuse them - the same concept as the "Wildcat" on offense. You give them a look they aren't prepared for. In that sense, a 3-4 set might be good but, for base defense, we need to stick to the 4-3.

And I agree with the those who say the 3-4 wastes Mario Williams' best asset. In a 3-4, he'd have to line up further inside, take more body blows and find some new rush moves. On the outside, he just needs to beat the tackle who might get help from one extra blocker. Easier duty.

[NBT]

We started out in the 3-4 and didn't seem to be able to get all that many good players. I think it is much harder to draft for a 3-4 than it is for a 4-3. Of course we have a real good GM now that we didn't before!