Trade Dunta?

[bckey]

I think Dunta's case is unique. He turned down what pretty much everyone except him thinks is a more than fair offer and long term deal. The guy doesn't want to play in Houston and he is mad because he got franchised.

[dadmg]

Originally Posted by bckey

I think Dunta's case is unique. He turned down what pretty much everyone except him thinks is a more than fair offer and long term deal. The guy doesn't want to play in Houston and he is mad because he got franchised.

I would be willing to bet he'd get a much better deal in free agency if he has a solid year. I can understand why the Texans wouldn't want to go higher, but I still think they're wrong.

In 2007, Asante Samuel got $20 million guaranteed on a 6-year, $57 million contract.

In 2008, Nnamdi Asomugha got $28.5 million guaranteed on a three year, $45 million contract, Marcus Trufant got a $20 million guaranteed on a 6-year $50 contract, and Chris Gamble got a $23 million guaranteed on 6 years and $50 million.

Asomugha is the top CB in the league and Dunta won't approach that money, even with the increases that come from year to year. But I think that Trufant and Gamble were able to get similar deals to Samuel a year later is as good an indicator as any of the way contracts go up each year. Considering the likely increase next year even if they reach a CBA, Dunta should be able to get $22-25 million guaranteed if he has a decent year. And if there is an uncapped year then that money might go up further. Last I heard, the Texans were supposedly offering $18-19 and Dunta wanted $23. I think it'd be rather shocking if he couldn't make better than the Texans offer on the open market. I think there's a good chance he could make more than he's asking for right now. Add in that Dunta has sufficient leverage to ask for the franchise tender to have a no-franchise clause (which has happened several times in the last few years) and the leverage goes even more in Dunta's favor. It may be a lot of money, but the Texans offer doesn't look like much more than an opening offer. If that's their final offer, Dunta should leave.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by dadmg

I would be willing to bet he'd get a much better deal in free agency if he has a solid year. I can understand why the Texans wouldn't want to go higher, but I still think they're wrong.

In 2007, Asante Samuel got $20 million guaranteed on a 6-year, $57 million contract.

In 2008, Nnamdi Asomugha got $28.5 million guaranteed on a three year, $45 million contract, Marcus Trufant got a $20 million guaranteed on a 6-year $50 contract, and Chris Gamble got a $23 million guaranteed on 6 years and $50 million.

Asomugha is the top CB in the league and Dunta won't approach that money, even with the increases that come from year to year. But I think that Trufant and Gamble were able to get similar deals to Samuel a year later is as good an indicator as any of the way contracts go up each year. Considering the likely increase next year even if they reach a CBA, Dunta should be able to get $22-25 million guaranteed if he has a decent year. And if there is an uncapped year then that money might go up further. Last I heard, the Texans were supposedly offering $18-19 and Dunta wanted $23. I think it'd be rather shocking if he couldn't make better than the Texans offer on the open market. I think there's a good chance he could make more than he's asking for right now. Add in that Dunta has sufficient leverage to ask for the franchise tender to have a no-franchise clause (which has happened several times in the last few years) and the leverage goes even more in Dunta's favor. It may be a lot of money, but the Texans offer doesn't look like much more than an opening offer. If that's their final offer, Dunta should leave.

You act like Dunta is coming off of a career year. He's not. He's coming off of starting the year on the PUP and then finishing it as a part time player who could tackle but couldn't cover.

To this point we have not seen Dunta close to the level he played at in 2007. To me it makes sense that if he wants a long term deal right now under these circumstances, then he is going to have to give a discount for security's sake. Or if he is that confiddent in himself and his health, he can play the year at $10 million and get the big payday next year. Either way he has no right to cash in for anything close to $25 million based on what he showed on the field last year.

So sign the deal for less or bet on yourself and perform your way to the big deal next year. I hope he plays like the Dunta of old and gets every dollar he can. But either way I am glad we're not throwing $25 million at a guy who is almost 2 years away from playing good football.

[edo783]

According to reports and not denied by Dunta or his agent, we offered him a contract similar to Gamble's, long term with 23 million guaranteed. Even in his BEST form that would probably be more than he is worth, or at the very least at the very top of his market/playing worth. We did that after paying him during the time he was off and after a less than stellar return and yet he didn't want the deal. To think that we some how didn't give a stupendously good offer is ludicrous. IMO, we are lucky he didn't take it as he isn't worth it nor IMO is he worth the 9.9 mill of the franchise. Lots of fans are in love with the hits he does in the run game, but seem to forget that other than his rookie year, he was rather consistently beat in the passing game. Does he seem to bring some fire to the defense, yes at times, but is that worth burying the cap room to pay for what is a mediocre CB at best and perhaps not even mediocre these days.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by edo783

According to reports and not denied by Dunta or his agent, we offered him a contract similar to Gamble's, long term with 23 million guaranteed. Even in his BEST form that would probably be more than he is worth, or at the very least at the very top of his market/playing worth. We did that after paying him during the time he was off and after a less than stellar return and yet he didn't want the deal. To think that we some how didn't give a stupendously good offer is ludicrous. IMO, we are lucky he didn't take it as he isn't worth it nor IMO is he worth the 9.9 mill of the franchise. Lots of fans are in love with the hits he does in the run game, but seem to forget that other than his rookie year, he was rather consistently beat in the passing game. Does he seem to bring some fire to the defense, yes at times, but is that worth burying the cap room to pay for what is a mediocre CB at best and perhaps not even mediocre these days.

A few things. (1) Dunta was far better than mediocre in 2007 and before. (2) We had no choice but to pay Dunta while he was hurt. It wasn't like we did it out of the goodness of our heart. (3) He is our best option at CB if healthy and would be one of our 2 best this year even if he doesn't make it all the back.

Make him play for the franchise tag and buy yourself a year in the negotiations to see if he can still play like he did pre-injury. If he doesn't like it he will sit out and not get paid and hurt his own value for other teams.

So I have no problem with Dunta trying to get paid (especially since he is looking at what might be his one big payday in a league heavily slanted to the owners), and I have no problem with the Texans not paying a guy coming off of a serious injury. Lets just let it play out. We haven't even hit training camp yet.

[papabear]

Originally Posted by barrett

A few things. (1) Dunta was far better than mediocre in 2007 and before. (2) We had no choice but to pay Dunta while he was hurt. It wasn't like we did it out of the goodness of our heart. (3) He is our best option at CB if healthy and would be one of our 2 best this year even if he doesn't make it all the back.

Make him play for the franchise tag and buy yourself a year in the negotiations to see if he can still play like he did pre-injury. If he doesn't like it he will sit out and not get paid and hurt his own value for other teams.

So I have no problem with Dunta trying to get paid (especially since he is looking at what might be his one big payday in a league heavily slanted to the owners), and I have no problem with the Texans not paying a guy coming off of a serious injury. Lets just let it play out. We haven't even hit training camp yet.

Dunta was better than mediocre in 2007, but his best year by far was his rookie year when he exceeded expectations for a rookie corner. He hasn't played at that same level since then. I blame a lot of it on scheme...but that doesn't change the fact that he hasn't performed as well as I had hoped he had.

I have zero problem with him for trying to maximize his money right now. I think he's taking the negotiations a little too personnel, but I guess it's hard not too sometimes. I'm not a fan of some of the comments he made publicly either. I think it should be handled a different way, but it's his contract not mine. If he were to ask me for my advice I would tell him that he should have taken the 23 Mill deal...if that's what he really got offered. It's entirely possible that the the Texans slipped a big roster bonus on the back end of the contract that they included in the gauranteed money when it "accidentally" got leaked to the media. Pure speculation, but if they did something like that then Dunta is smart enough to know that he would be released before ever seeing that big bonus. He would probably also feel like the Texans were just trying to make him look. You never know.

He's very aware of how fragile an NFL career is. This is probably his one shot at a really big deal. Very few players get a shot at more than 1 big free agent deal. Holdouts happen all the time, we've just had very few players of a high enough caliber for it to be an issue. Every year guys get included on the "potential" free agents list and everyone starts drooling over who they might be able to sign next year. Most of the marquee names end up staying with their team. We don't know what's being said behind closed doors, and that's why I'm just can't get too worked up over this. He's here this year for sure unless something wild happens. Beyond that there's nothing to do but wait and see.

[edo783]

IMO, Dunta WAS a close to elite run stopper, but just slightly above average in pass coverage. The ONLY time he showed well was his rookie year. Last year he was less than average in both realms and was beaten badly in pass coverage. Will he be better this year....most likely, but certainly not at top 5 level as he was NEVER there to start with.

[Bigtinylittle]

Originally Posted by barrett

You act like Dunta is coming off of a career year. He's not. He's coming off of starting the year on the PUP and then finishing it as a part time player who could tackle but couldn't cover.

To this point we have not seen Dunta close to the level he played at in 2007. To me it makes sense that if he wants a long term deal right now under these circumstances, then he is going to have to give a discount for security's sake. Or if he is that confiddent in himself and his health, he can play the year at $10 million and get the big payday next year. Either way he has no right to cash in for anything close to $25 million based on what he showed on the field last year.

So sign the deal for less or bet on yourself and perform your way to the big deal next year. I hope he plays like the Dunta of old and gets every dollar he can. But either way I am glad we're not throwing $25 million at a guy who is almost 2 years away from playing good football.

What you are saying is so clear that for the life of me I can't understand why anyone sees it any other way. Giving a big time contract to a player who may never again be more than average is a huge risk. In a sport without a cap it might be different, but in football every bad contract hurts the team.

[bckey]

Originally Posted by Bigtinylittle

What you are saying is so clear that for the life of me I can't understand why anyone sees it any other way. Giving a big time contract to a player who may never again be more than average is a huge risk. In a sport without a cap it might be different, but in football every bad contract hurts the team.

And I can't understand why anyone can't see Dunta already turned down a big pay day (23 million guaranteed) with the Texans and doesn't want to play here. Unless you think he deserves more than that I don't see what he can possibly hold out for.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by bckey

And I can't understand why anyone can't see Dunta already turned down a big pay day (23 million guaranteed) with the Texans and doesn't want to play here. Unless you think he deserves more than that I don't see what he can possibly hold out for.

What's your point?

We use the franchise tag to wait and see. What better option do you think we have?

[bckey]

Originally Posted by barrett

What's your point?

We use the franchise tag to wait and see. What better option do you think we have?

I agree. You have to use the franchise tag. My point is some people keep thinking Dunta is waiting for the right offer from the Texans and they will come to an agreement and I'm saying it has come and gone. The Texans aren't going to up their offer of 23 million guaranteed. Letting it play out only favors the Texans. Dunta has already rejected their max offer. If he was smart he would appologize to the f/o and the fans and ask if the deal is still on the table and then sign it. It was ignorant for him to think the Texans would just let him walk regardless if R Smith said it or not. Grow up, shut up and play Dunta. Be thankful you were able to come back from such a devastating injury and still have a chance to get paid. Take the money and quit whining.