My Lessons for next year

[barrett]

Originally Posted by nero THE zero

Barwin has played one year as a DE in the Big East.

Are you trying to say he's not a project?

A guy who had double digit sacks in a major conference can't be called a project.

Now you can say he has only started reaching his potential due to his inexperience at the position, but he has production at that spot already. He is not a project.

[nero THE zero]

Originally Posted by barrett

A guy who had double digit sacks in a major conference can't be called a project.

Now you can say he has only started reaching his potential due to his inexperience at the position, but he has production at that spot already. He is not a project.

He's played the position for one year. Being inexperienced inherently means that he's a project, the two things are synonymous.

Read his scouting profiles, everyone of them is littered with the words raw and potential. That means he's a project.

You can argue semantics all you want. But my point still stands; Another thing Smithiak seems to like to do is draft a high-potential-project/raw/inexperienced (players) fairly high in the draft. They've done it with Amobi, Jacoby, Molden, and now Barwin.

Tomato:tomato

[barrett]

Originally Posted by nero THE zero

He's played the position for one year. Being inexperienced inherently means that he's a project, the two things are synonymous.

Read his scouting profiles, everyone of them is littered with the words raw and potential. That means he's a project.

You can argue semantics all you want. But my point still stands; Another thing Smithiak seems to like to do is draft a high-potential-project/raw/inexperienced (players) fairly high in the draft. They've done it with Amobi, Jacoby, Molden, and now Barwin.

Tomato:tomato

A project is a guy who is drafted based on what you are projecting, not based on what you have seen. And because it's based on projections, it is a guy who you are prepared to wait on for development.

Barwin on the other hand was the team MVP for a team that made it to the BCS, 1st team Big East (led the conference in sacks), and an All-American. You cannot be an All-American DE and be considered a project at that same position.

[Joshua]

I think you guys are probably talking past each other a little bit and both have a point. Clearly, Barwin produced in college, although it is a limited sample size of 1 year. However, by most accounts, he produced without being technically sound, with a limited number of pass rush moves, and with just very little experience at the position in general. I don't think it's wrong to assume that to be successful in the NFL, one generally needs more than athleticism and some technical proficiency at your position is necessary (I seem to recall numerous discussions of Mario's lack of pass rushing moves (swim, spin, etc.) early on). Thus, I don't think it's wrong to categorize Barwin as a project in that sense. However, he did produce at a high level in college without much experience at the position which is encouraging.

[nero THE zero]

Originally Posted by barrett

A project is a guy who is drafted based on what you are projecting, not based on what you have seen. And because it's based on projections, it is a guy who you are prepared to wait on for development.

Barwin on the other hand was the team MVP for a team that made it to the BCS, 1st team Big East (led the conference in sacks), and an All-American. You cannot be an All-American DE and be considered a project at that same position.

We're working off different definitions of "project."

To me, a project is a guy who takes an extraordinary amount of work, for a number of possible reasons, to develop to realize his potential. It could be because he was new to/inexperienced at his position (ie. Barwin), was extremely young (ie. Amobi), or played in a small conference against inferior competition (ie. Jacoby.)

Again, that's not to say that Barwin won't succeed in the NFL. But, it is going to take more work on Barwin to develop his pass rushing skills and DE acumen because of his lack of experience at the position. That is, by definition, a project.

Again; You can argue semantics all you want. But my point still stands; Another thing Smithiak seems to like to do is draft a high-potential-project/raw/inexperienced (players) fairly high in the draft. They've done it with Amobi, Jacoby, Molden, and now Barwin.

Tomato:tomato

[barrett]

Originally Posted by nero THE zero

We're working off different definitions of "project."

To me, a project is a guy who takes an extraordinary amount of work, for a number of possible reasons, to develop to realize his potential. It could be because he was new to/inexperienced at his position (ie. Barwin), was extremely young (ie. Amobi), or played in a small conference against inferior competition (ie. Jacoby.)

Again, that's not to say that Barwin won't succeed in the NFL. But, it is going to take more work on Barwin to develop his pass rushing skills and DE acumen because of his lack of experience at the position. That is, by definition, a project.

Again; You can argue semantics all you want. But my point still stands; Another thing Smithiak seems to like to do is draft a high-potential-project/raw/inexperienced (players) fairly high in the draft. They've done it with Amobi, Jacoby, Molden, and now Barwin.

Tomato:tomato

I agree it will take a lot of work for him to reach his potential, but name me the DE taken who will not take a lot of work.

To me, Barwin can come in and have an impact as a situational rusher completely "as is." His current skill set may be limited in regards to what it may become, but I think he can get after the QB this year before any work other than training camp. That is why I think you can't term him a project.

As for the idea that Smith likes players with high risk/reward (more accurate than "project" with the guys you named), I agree somewhat. Amobi and JJ fit this mold (and even though you didn't name him so does Duane Brown).

But then in the first round this year we went with a very safe and plain pick of Cushing over a number of players who appeared to have a higher ceiling. I think every team balances these things and I don't see the Texans doing it any more often than the rest of the league. So I agree we are likely to see a risky/project type pick somewhere in each draft, but I think you see those in most team's drafts most years.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by nero THE zero

We're working off different definitions of "project."

To me, a project is a guy who takes an extraordinary amount of work, for a number of possible reasons, to develop to realize his potential. It could be because he was new to/inexperienced at his position (ie. Barwin), was extremely young (ie. Amobi), or played in a small conference against inferior competition (ie. Jacoby.)

Again, that's not to say that Barwin won't succeed in the NFL. But, it is going to take more work on Barwin to develop his pass rushing skills and DE acumen because of his lack of experience at the position. That is, by definition, a project.

Again; You can argue semantics all you want. But my point still stands; Another thing Smithiak seems to like to do is draft a high-potential-project/raw/inexperienced (players) fairly high in the draft. They've done it with Amobi, Jacoby, Molden, and now Barwin.

Tomato:tomato

I hear you, but I think what I'm trying to say is that we now expect him to be productive based up his college performance as a pass-rusher while still having serious upside out there. Barret & others probably put it better than me.
Now regarding his play on other downs in a series, yea he's a project there for sure. I'd guess the Texans aren't even totally for sure if they play him as an OLB or DE in those situations ?