The upcoming Tennessee game (12-14-08)

[sinnister]

Originally Posted by Mike

1) Bob McNair is not on the same plan. gary Kubiak also not on that plan. The goal is to win. Win as many games as possible and play whoever gives that best chance.
2) You earn PT in practice. Anyone who has played any level of football understands that. Okam level of play went down after the NC year. Hence, his draft stock fell. He had time in camp/preseason to earn time. He did not earn time.
3) Veterans and players who are going to be here want to win. The wanted to beat SF years ago even if they lost the #1 pick. You play who gives you the change to win. Too bad for on the job training. This is the NFL. Vets don't deserve to lose a job to a rook.

1. Mcnair's timetable has nothing to do with the development of a DT. Kubiak is on a timeline of development, but I would think he wants to see improvement. Again, this is an entirely different point and another subject altogether. If your point is correct, then one must always pursue free agents. You have to allow rookies to learn and play, while juggling veteran players who are better. If you don't, then your team will always fail.

2. Anyone who has played football will tell you that you do have players who don't perform as well on a practice field as they do on playing field, or perform great on a practice field and stink it up on the playing field. There are a lot of reasons why this is, and anyone who has played sports knows this.

3. This is correct, but it also shows if you live for the here and now, you will lose. Kubiak has stated he should have played Diles, Walter, and Bennett sooner than he did. I am not saying this is the case for Okam, but merely saying that a good organization understands the long term development of the team may be a little short term suffering. All the practice in the world is completely different when the cameras start, the crowds are there, and the pressure is on. Again, anyone who plays sports knows this.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by sinnister

1. Mcnair's timetable has nothing to do with the development of a DT. Kubiak is on a timeline of development, but I would think he wants to see improvement. Again, this is an entirely different point and another subject altogether. If your point is correct, then one must always pursue free agents. You have to allow rookies to learn and play, while juggling veteran players who are better. If you don't, then your team will always fail.

2. Anyone who has played football will tell you that you do have players who don't perform as well on a practice field as they do on playing field, or perform great on a practice field and stink it up on the playing field. There are a lot of reasons why this is, and anyone who has played sports knows this.

3. This is correct, but it also shows if you live for the here and now, you will lose. Kubiak has stated he should have played Diles, Walter, and Bennett sooner than he did. I am not saying this is the case for Okam, but merely saying that a good organization understands the long term development of the team may be a little short term suffering. All the practice in the world is completely different when the cameras start, the crowds are there, and the pressure is on. Again, anyone who plays sports knows this.

Where do you come up with this stuff?

Bennett played as soon as he was healthy his rookie year. Kubs never expressed regrets.

And Diles and Walter prove the opposite of what you are arguing. They did a great job in practice and earned PT (thus coach saying I wish we played those guys even though they had never performed on sunday). Both guys just did such a great job in practice that they could not be kept off the field. Thats how both of them were starters here by the beginning of their 2nd season even though neither was highly regarded. They earned it. However, Kubiak has never said anything like this with Okam. In fact he has said the opposite. He has said Okam does not practice like a pro.

Right now you have no good reason why Okam should play other than (1) he is young, and (2) even though he is no good in practice he MIGHT be good in a game.

Okam is a young guy. He will either work hard, get better, and earn snaps, or he will practice poorly, never see the field, and be out of the league. Why is this so hard to understand?

[sinnister]

Originally Posted by barrett

Where do you come up with this stuff?

Bennett played as soon as he was healthy his rookie year. Kubs never expressed regrets.

Kubiak has stated that he wished he would have played Diles, Walters, and Bennett earlier. Bennett was hurt, but he didnt start as soon as he got healthy. He was back for awhile, but Petey kept getting torched. Then they went to Bennett.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by sinnister

Kubiak has stated that he wished he would have played Diles, Walters, and Bennett earlier. Bennett was hurt, but he didnt start as soon as he got healthy. He was back for awhile, but Petey kept getting torched. Then they went to Bennett.

Bennett was hurt and missed all of training camp. Then he got healthy after camp and DURING his rookie season. Starting by midseason for a rookie who missed all of camp may be a record. He was on the field as soon as possible. Show me a quote from Kubs that says otherwise.

As for Diles and Walter... like I said, you've got two guys who practiced hard, drew praise from their coach, and earned spots. There is no correllation to Okam.

The correllations for walter and diles are Deljuan Robinson and Jesse Nading. Both are hard working young players who have performed well enough in practice to EARN their way into the DT rotation.

[sinnister]

Originally Posted by barrett

Bennett was hurt and missed all of training camp. Then he got healthy after camp and DURING his rookie season. Starting by midseason for a rookie who missed all of camp may be a record. He was on the field as soon as possible. Show me a quote from Kubs that says otherwise.

As for Diles and Walter... like I said, you've got two guys who practiced hard, drew praise from their coach, and earned spots. There is no correllation to Okam.

The correllations for walter and diles are Deljuan Robinson and Jesse Nading. Both are hard working young players who have performed well enough in practice to EARN their way into the DT rotation.

The way you make it out, Okam must be not do anything. You say he doesnt practice hard...Show me a quote where Kubs has said this. The only thing I have heard Kubiak say concerning Okam and where he was as a player was that he had a lot to learn. As for Fred Bennett, he started after Duanta Robinson when he was injured. As I remember, it was after that Kubiak made a statement about he should have probably played him more, but he felt like Petey was "better" at the time. I will see if I can find the quote, or maybe someone else can provide that.

This is becoming pointless. You think Okam is lazy, and he may be. I don't know that. If he is as lazy as you are making him out, then he should be cut; however, I doubt he is as bad as the rap he is getting.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by sinnister

The way you make it out, Okam must be not do anything. You say he doesnt practice hard...Show me a quote where Kubs has said this. The only thing I have heard Kubiak say concerning Okam and where he was as a player was that he had a lot to learn. As for Fred Bennett, he started after Duanta Robinson when he was injured. As I remember, it was after that Kubiak made a statement about he should have probably played him more, but he felt like Petey was "better" at the time. I will see if I can find the quote, or maybe someone else can provide that.

This is becoming pointless. You think Okam is lazy, and he may be. I don't know that. If he is as lazy as you are making him out, then he should be cut; however, I doubt he is as bad as the rap he is getting.

What conclusion do you draw from the fact that he continues to get passed on the depth chart by guys like Nading, Zgoniga, and Robinson? The Texans staff has no reason to like these guys and has more invested in Okam than any of them (5th round pick). If he can't beat out any of these guys it should tell all of us everything we need to know about how good he is right now. Maybe he EARNS time next year and turns a corner in becoming a player, but every conceivable sign points to no right now.

[kravix]

I am not gonna look up the quotes but Kubiak did say he wished he had played Walter and Diles earlier, and yes it because of the way the practiced and played in the little time they saw. I am not sure about Bennet, as I think he made the field more due to DRobs injury, as we dont seem to quick to roll out rookie CB over a vet no matter how bad their play.

I havent seen any negative remarks about Okam that may not have been said about Moulden, usually it is along the lines of having a long way to go, or alot to learn, or needs to practice better, or really step up blah blah blah... I would like to see the quote from Kubes saying Okam is a fat lazy slob and the only reason he is still on the team is because McNair wants to give the UT fans that bailed with VY some reason to watch the Texans.

Also Kubiaks remarks about playing players earlier typically only came after the players got on the field for an extended time and everyone says hey why was this guy sitting so long, or WTF are you thinking (in the case of Walter for almost all his first year as a starter).

As for Okam beating out Zgonina or Robinson.. Well one is acient and can at least make up for that with his experience and the other is playing well atm but it is his second year and the entire def is playing like we stole them from another team.

Look at TJ, his first 2-3 years everyone said he was lazy and unmotivated, maybe he was, or maybe he just didnt get it until sometime last year. Now he has one of the best motors on the DL and chases every play. DL is a hard spot to play and the more they think the worse their play is and slower they seem. Add in the fact that Okam is a rookie and a big guy and even though he isnt playing I am sure conditioning is a huge factor, almost every rookie has them from about halfway through camp till the end of the year.