Okam seems ready to step up in year 2

[painekiller]

10 questions with Frank Okam on the official site is a must read.

The light has seemed to come on for the young man. He has thrown himself into being in the best shape of his life. He says he has lost 25 lbs.

This is all good news.

Now if Okam can dominate in the NFL like he did his junior year, and Frank Bush's system really does let the big guys penetrate, this defense can become a real difference maker. The last few years our defense has been weak against the run, and IMO the best way to stop the run is disrupt the play in the back field.

Okam with his size and wiggle, and Okoye with his quickness can become real stars. With 2 DTs capable of shedding blocks so quick, O-lines are not left many options. Add this to Mario needing a triple team who is left to block Smith?

I think Frank Okam's development has the potential to be the biggest gain this off season. Bigger than Cushing, or the signing of Smith.

[Nconroe]

That would be really great for our defense if Okam can remain motivated to meet his apparent potential to be that big guy up the middle. Seems we are hearing a little about him quite often this off season, so maybe, gotta see what really happens. I'll root for Okam to become dominant.

[barrett]

I agree. It would be like found money for us if Okam takes a big jump. Very few things could help our defense next year more than the sudden appearance/development of a huge DT playing angry in the middle of the field. Obviously it's way too early to tell, but it would be nice.

[HPF Bob]

I'd want to actually see him performing well before considering him a big upgrade. If the light has truly come on, great. But I want to see proof.

[barrett]

That's my point. He hasn't shown anything in the NFL up to this point, and I don't think we were relying on him in any way. So if he shows up for camp and is a contributor, it would be a huge and unexpected bonus. I hope we see it.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by painekiller

has the potential to be the biggest gain this off season.

I am also waiting to see, thus the word potential.

Like barrett, I see few items that added to this team could impact as much as a huge DT playing angry.

That is why I was looking for a true NT for this defense this offseason. But few men have the size/quickness combo that Okam brings.

[nunusguy]

If Okam really were to reach "his potential" (which I'm very doubful of), then the teams defensive direction should be obvious: convert to the 3-4. Okam would be our NT and Mario and AS would both be excellenct 3-4 DEs. ILBs would be DeMeco & Diles and I think Cushing could play strong-side OLB
in the 3-4 just as he's going to be doing in the 4-3. And Barwin would be over on the weak side, as practically everybody feels that Barwin's "natural poistion" in the NFL is as a 3-4 OLB.
What to do about Okoye ? Time to be honest with ourselves and cut our losses now - he just isn't gonna be the player in the NFL Smith & Kubiak hoped he would be. Not as a 4-3 one-gapper DT or anywhere else - lot a guys do well in college (especially in their senior year), and have disappointing pro careers.
And we sure can't use him in the 3-4.

[dalemurphy]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

If Okam really were to reach "his potential" (which I'm very doubful of), then the teams defensive direction should be obvious: convert to the 3-4. Okam would be our NT and Mario and AS would both be excellenct 3-4 DEs. ILBs would be DeMeco & Diles and I think Cushing could play strong-side OLB
in the 3-4 just as he's going to be doing in the 4-3. And Barwin would be over on the weak side, as practically everybody feels that Barwin's "natural poistion" in the NFL is as a 3-4 OLB.
What to do about Okoye ? Time to be honest with ourselves and cut our losses now - he just isn't gonna be the player in the NFL Smith & Kubiak hoped he would be. Not as a 4-3 one-gapper DT or anywhere else - lot a guys do well in college (especially in their senior year), and have disappointing pro careers.
And we sure can't use him in the 3-4.

Are you serious with this post?

First, there is no need to convert to a 4-3 simply because we found a guy that can play NT in it. The Ravens championship team played a 4-3 and had two guys (Sam Adams and Siragusa) that fit that description. Barwin comes into the league bigger and stronger than Dwight Freeney did and Jason Taylor- among others, who were both excellent DEs in 4-3 Defenses. Clearly, Brian Cushing fits the profile of a SLB in a 4-3. Most disturbing about your post is that you think we should go ahead and "cut our losses now" with Okoye. You don't think it's a little premature to quit on a 1st round talent at DT who is just about to turn 22 years old and entering his 3rd season in the NFL? Finally, our best defensive player (Mario), would become a much less effective playmaker in a 3-4 because he would be moved into the line and play almost every snap as a 5 technique.

[cland]

Don't be too hasty on Okoye. The typical norm for DTs is three years to make an impact in the NFL, and sometimes more.

Just pull up the numbers on Haynesworth, who is widely considered the most dominant NFL DT.

2002 - 1 sack, 30 tackles
2003 - 2.5 sacks, 32 tackles
2004 - 1 sack, 36 tackles

It took him 4 years to get his tackles up to 50 (52 in 2005)
It took him 6 years to get his sacks over 5 (6 in 2007)

The fact that Okoye came in as the youngest player ever doesn't help his ability to impact immediately. During last season I started seeing flashes of dominant play, but the high ankle sprain kicked in and hampered his efforts (Haynesworth has never started a full season btw.)

[barrett]

Not to mention Demeco is very small to play ILB in the 3-4. Fewer DL in front of him means more OL getting into him, and his biggest weakness is getting off of blocks. And that Mario gets minimized as a pass rusher in the 3-4.

All around it would be a stupid idea to switch 7 guys' positions because one guy fits a 3-4 better.

[Blitzwood]

While I don't totally agree with a previous poster, I don't believe it would be a bad idea to switch to a 3-4 during games to throw off opposing offenses, especially to run blitzes or fake blitzes. I think the ability to have different lineups and looks would make us less predictable on defense and more disruptive in the backfield. Given some of the flexibility we have now on defense, I'd be open to the idea. I think Barwin could play DE, OLB or ILB in a 3-4, as well as Cushing. If Okam is going to have a breakout year, that could be HUGE for us this year with all the recent additions on defense.

I cant wait till August.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

Are you serious with this post?

First, there is no need to convert to a 4-3 simply because we found a guy that can play NT in it. The Ravens championship team played a 4-3 and had two guys (Sam Adams and Siragusa) that fit that description. Barwin comes into the league bigger and stronger than Dwight Freeney did and Jason Taylor- among others, who were both excellent DEs in 4-3 Defenses. Clearly, Brian Cushing fits the profile of a SLB in a 4-3. Most disturbing about your post is that you think we should go ahead and "cut our losses now" with Okoye. You don't think it's a little premature to quit on a 1st round talent at DT who is just about to turn 22 years old and entering his 3rd season in the NFL? Finally, our best defensive player (Mario), would become a much less effective playmaker in a 3-4 because he would be moved into the line and play almost every snap as a 5 technique.

Maybe, just maybe we could get a second-round pick for Okoye, but I suspect it would be more like a third-rounder, especially with his contract.
I'm just not very optimistic about AO and I don't think he's that valuable to us or most other teams.
But AS is much more of a 3-4 DE than he is a 4-3 downlineman, either at
DE or inside at DT. And Mario would be a premier 3-4 DE. Of course he's also a
premier 4-3 DE, I wouldn't deny that. But this whole scenario is based on a hypothesis that Okam could be effective at nose, which would then also permit Barwin to realize his full potential as a 3-4 outside backer and not a downlineman in the 4-3.

[edo783]

I hope you realize that if you use Mario as a DE in a 34 you basically lose all the speed he has? A 34 DEs and NTs primary purpose are to occupy the blockers on the line and allow the LBs to flow to the QB from multiple points. IMO, we would be wasting him, Smith and likely Barwin not to mention that other than Cushing we are more than a little light in the butt at LB. Add to that that as far as I know none of our coaching staff are what could be called 34 gurus. So, it doesn't sound like a very good idea at this pint.

[papabear]

Nice to hear about Okam....but all the "news" this time of year is nothing more than fluff pieces. There just isn't anything else going on.

Mario would be a waste running a conventional 3-4. I have no problem with running multiple fronts, using a 3-4 alignment as a change-up mid-game...but asking Mario to eat up blockers would be totally negating his biggest asset, even though he would be good at it.

One of the things that hurt Demeco on draft day was his size....that problem would only be exacerbated by moving him to a 3-4.

[Bigtinylittle]

I will refuse believe Okam has taken a step up until the day he is promoted to starter. Until then, it's all talk.

[nero THE zero]

Originally Posted by cland

During last season I started seeing flashes of dominant play, but the high ankle sprain kicked in and hampered his efforts (Haynesworth has never started a full season btw.)

Really? Because the NFL personnel scouts that LZ talks to disagree. They see a DT who can't hold his ground and simply doesn't flash NFL potential.

I think Okoye should be nicknamed 'the excuse' because that's all he amounts to thus far.

[nero THE zero]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

But AS is much more of a 3-4 DE than he is a 4-3 downlineman, either at
DE or inside at DT.

What are you basing that off of?

[NBT]

TJ, in my opinion ws the weak link on the DL last year. He has had time to grow into the guy we wanted, but he continues to underachieve. So when we got Okam in the 5th round last year, I was excited. If Okam can cash in on his potential, we will have a dominant DL, period. I don't want to hear the negativity on Okoye. The hi ankle sprain held him back last year, so give the kid a break for cryin out loud!

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by papabear

Mario would be a waste running a conventional 3-4. I have no problem with running multiple fronts, using a 3-4 alignment as a change-up mid-game...but asking Mario to eat up blockers would be totally negating his biggest asset, even though he would be good at it.

There was a time when I would have completely agreed with what your saying here, but the market value, the importance of 3-4 DEs is changing as quickly as teams in the NFL are converting to the 3-4 defense. The best example I can site for this is that former NE personnel man & new Chiefs GM Scott Pioli used his teams 3rd overall pick in this years draft to select dlineman Tyson Jackson to play in the Chiefs 3-4.

[papabear]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

There was a time when I would have completely agreed with what your saying here, but the market value, the importance of 3-4 DEs is changing as quickly as teams in the NFL are converting to the 3-4 defense. The best example I can site for this is that former NE personnel man & new Chiefs GM Scott Pioli used his teams 3rd overall pick in this years draft to select dlineman Tyson Jackson to play in the Chiefs 3-4.

3-4 ends are absolutely vital to the teams success running that system, but that doesn't mean it's a good use of one of the best, freakishly talented, 4-3 ends. I'm not saying they aren't important, only that Mario wouldn't get to use a large portion of his skill set in a traditional 3-4 and to me that is a waste of a guy with once in a generation size and speed. There are variations of the 3-4 now that allow for some 1 gap stuff from the down lineman (I think Wade Phillips does some of this) but in general 3-4 lineman aren't there to make plays. Their job is to eat up blockers and let the linebackers make the plays. 3-4 end and 4-3 end are two different beast....there's a reason no one was looking at Tyson Jackson as a 4-3 end (specifically a RE).