The Texans "A" list

Arky · #1 12-15-2009, 01:00 AM

I just read in McClain's blog a poster claiming that the Texans are an "extremely talented" team. Whelp, I'm not sure if I totally agree with that. I think there are several areas where they need upgrading and better depth (see TE's: who'd thunk they'd be down to two banged up TE's?). So, that led me to this scenario:

The NFL has just awarded a new franchise. As GM of this new franchise, you're allowed to pluck a few players from the other existing teams. You're allowed a few A, B, and C type players from each team. Players that grade out "A" are some of the best in the league - not necessarily Pro Bowlers but valuable contributors that perform highly week in and week out. Perhaps upper 15% at their position....

So, who on the Texans makes your "A" list?

Please list players from offense, defense and special teams. You can list "strong B's" or honorable mention if you wish...

(just an exercise here - please, humor me)

Mike · #2 12-15-2009, 09:10 AM

I thought of this over the weekend. Feel free to add, I went quicky through my mind. Mostly thought of the "A" list players over the weekend.

In the A's I would consider players who would start just on just about any team.
Andre Johnson, Mario Williams, Demeco Ryans, Brian Cushing, Owen Daniels

B's I would consider: Would start for more than 1/2 the teams
Eric Winston (Winston almost an A) Schaub, Pitts minus the injury, Antonio Smith.

C's - I would use this category for young players, lower salaries
Glover Quinn, Bernard Pollard, Zac Diles, Jacoby Jones (special teams, he is explosive and talented (although sometimes reckless), Kevin Walter, Slaton (the 2008 version), Bentley for his ST play, Barwin for his upside, DA for his low salary and slot third down role.

HPF Bob · #3 12-15-2009, 12:31 PM

A's = Andre Johnson, Demeco Ryans. That's it.
B's = Mario Williams. That's it.
C's = Matt Schaub, Owen Daniels. That's it.

If I were a GM trying to start a new club, I'd also be interested in Cushing and Andre Davis. But the rest of the Texans would have to be on the waiver wire before I'd even consider adding them.

EndZoneSeats · #4 12-15-2009, 12:34 PM

Andre Davis, Bob?

He seems overpaid, is a relative non-factor as a receiver, and is a pedestrian KR.

painekiller · #5 12-15-2009, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

A's = Andre Johnson, Demeco Ryans. That's it.
B's = Mario Williams. That's it.
C's = Matt Schaub, Owen Daniels. That's it..

A's = Andre Johnson, Demeco Ryans, Brian Cushing.
B's = Mario Williams, Matt Schaub,Bernard Pollard.
C's = Eric Winston,Duane Brown,Owen Daniels,Vonta Leach,Steve Slaton, Chester Pitts.

Incompletes: Conner Barwin, James Casey,Antoine Caldwell,Tim Jamison,Jacoby Jones, Brice McCain.

I was wrong about Cushing, period. Pollard has been close to pro-bowl caliber.

chuck · #6 12-17-2009, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by painekiller

A's = Andre Johnson, Demeco Ryans, Brian Cushing.
B's = Mario Williams, Matt Schaub,Bernard Pollard.
C's = Eric Winston,Duane Brown,Owen Daniels,Vonta Leach,Steve Slaton, Chester Pitts.

Incompletes: Conner Barwin, James Casey,Antoine Caldwell,Tim Jamison,Jacoby Jones, Brice McCain.

I was wrong about Cushing, period. Pollard has been close to pro-bowl caliber.

I think you're right on here. I might add Quinn to the list of incompletes.

Does anyone want to take a shot at doing this exercise for, say, the Colts?

barrett · #7 12-17-2009, 12:24 AM

Going off of the top 15% listed in the beginning of the thread, that means that a guy is in the top 10 of his position (or top 5 for spots with one starter like QB, MLB, LT) etc...

I'll assume that 'B' doubles that to %30. 'C' to top half of starters.

A - top 15% of starters
Mario (not sure what you guys have seen to make you think there are 10 better DEs)
AJ
Daniels (I was wrong before the season when I said he was just a guy, he is as good at getting open as any TE, has good speed, and great hands, I can't name 5 better)
Demeco is a maybe, if he is top 5 it's just barely
I could see Andre Davis here as a special teams/all around guy because he does so many things well (deep threat, return man, great at punt coverage, willing blocker)

B - top third of starters
Cushing
Winston
Duane Brown
Slaton (if counted as a 3rd down back, if not he is not even a C)
schaub

C - top half of starters
Walter
Pollard (not sure what went wrong for him in KC but he is a very solid tackler and good enough in coverage for a SS)
Smith
Glover Quin is close
Dunta

I really don't think the problem is talent. If there is a personell problem it is that not one of these guys is an interior lineman on either side of the ball.

painekiller · #8 12-17-2009, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck

I think you're right on here. I might add Quinn to the list of incompletes.

Does anyone want to take a shot at doing this exercise for, say, the Colts?

I forgot to add Quinn. Thank you.

A - Peyton, Wayne, Saturday (is getting old), Clark, Mathis, Freeney, Brackett, Sanders, Vinatieri ,Lilja, Diem
B- Garcon, Addai, Gonzalez, Baskett, Bullitt, Jackson, Brock

INC - Brown

10 rookies

23 players added to roster since SB win.

Now I may have the receivers too high, how much is Peyton improving the young WRs?

That is 17 players I rated an A or B, the Texans had only 12 players I rated A-B-C.

Joshua · #9 12-15-2009, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

A's = Andre Johnson, Demeco Ryans. That's it.
B's = Mario Williams. That's it.
C's = Matt Schaub, Owen Daniels. That's it.

Not to merge this thread with the Kubiak thread, but if this is it, Kubiak's record here is abysmal and he should be ran out of town on a rail. Only 5 guys? Plus, of those 5, the only "A" that Kubes brought in was Ryans. He gets credit for Mario and Matt, but it was widely reported that Daniels was a Casserly pick (I think even Kubiak admitted this?). Thus, Kubiak can only truly lay claim to Ryans, Mario and Schaub. Considering AJ is head and shoulders the best and Casserly was at least involved with drafting everyone else but Schaub, it could be argued that Casserly played a bigger role in getting our most talented players than Kubiak.

Arky · #10 12-15-2009, 05:01 PM

OK, thanks for the replies. I like that some of you went ahead and listed B's and C's and "upsiders". So, if you haven't replied, yet, please use this as refined criteria:

A's = excellent players
B's = very good players
C's = good players, upsiders

thanks.

HPF Bob · #11 12-16-2009, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua

Not to merge this thread with the Kubiak thread, but if this is it, Kubiak's record here is abysmal and he should be ran out of town on a rail. Only 5 guys? Plus, of those 5, the only "A" that Kubes brought in was Ryans. He gets credit for Mario and Matt, but it was widely reported that Daniels was a Casserly pick (I think even Kubiak admitted this?). Thus, Kubiak can only truly lay claim to Ryans, Mario and Schaub. Considering AJ is head and shoulders the best and Casserly was at least involved with drafting everyone else but Schaub, it could be argued that Casserly played a bigger role in getting our most talented players than Kubiak.

You seem to forget we have a general manager. His name is Rick Smith. I believe he's somewhat responsible for the draft picks from 2007-2009 as well as Schaub.

Joshua · #12 12-16-2009, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

You seem to forget we have a general manager. His name is Rick Smith. I believe he's somewhat responsible for the draft picks from 2007-2009 as well as Schaub.

Thanks for the lesson in the Texans organizational structure. I had no idea.

The conventional wisdom for the last 4 years has been that this is Kubiak's team and he makes the majority of the decisions (including personnel and drafting). I suspect none of us here know the truth but, to my knowledge, that's been the general consensus. Agree?

All I was noting was that you did not list a single player from these 2007-09 drafts; i.e. the Smith/Kubiak era, as players anyone would want. If you truly believe this, I would think this would give you pause about Kubiak (and Smith).

nero THE zero · #13 12-28-2009, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

A's = Andre Johnson, Demeco Ryans. That's it.
B's = Mario Williams. That's it.
C's = Matt Schaub, Owen Daniels. That's it.

If I were a GM trying to start a new club, I'd also be interested in Cushing and Andre Davis. But the rest of the Texans would have to be on the waiver wire before I'd even consider adding them.

Wow, tough sell.

IMO, these are the Texans' "A" players, players that are competitive for a pro-bowl this, or most years:

Andre Johnson, Matt Schaub, Owen Daniels, Mario Williams, DeMeco Ryans, Brian Cushing, and Bernard Pollard.

I don't know how you'd define the "B" and "C" players, but out of our starting 22, I think the only players who aren't starters for most "good" teams in the NFL are Okoye, Cody, Meyers, and whoever the flavor of the week at RB is.

edo783 · #14 12-28-2009, 11:12 PM

Tops in the league QB is a "C" player. MMmmm, the Russian judge is one tough scorer.

Arky · #15 12-30-2009, 01:27 PM

I'd say well done to all who participated on the "A" list. Since the pro-bowlers were announced, most all of you had the four Texans named as A's. Though probably Mario had a "B" year due to injury, he still gets in and that is fine. We've come to expect much more from him and I know next year, that most of us will expect a healthy Mario to step it up....