Looking at Tight End Contracts
 

This recurring feature from J.J. Halsell over at Football Outsiders looks at the top ten contracts for a position, which is of interest to us as he hit tight end this week. There's a brief paragraph at the end discussing Daniels, but I found more interesting how much the tight end market has rapidly escalated in recent years. Everyone knows the Kellen Winslow contract from this past offseason, but just as big a culprit might be...Daniel Graham?? Interesting article and if you want an idea of what we would have to pay OD, look at the table at the end.

http://footballoutsiders.com/under-c...ten-tight-ends

So, where would that put O.D. In about the 2.5M/yr category? We could live with that couldn't we? I don't think we should just lose him.

Good thing this is a football forum or who knows what a thread with this title might be about. :p

Looking at the stats and the chart, Daniels is worth $5M/yr and would be foolish to take less. Some team will give it to him, I'm not sure we should necessarily be the ones to do it. Considering the CBA talks and the leverage the team has, I'd try to make a deal now like Witten has and see if he takes it.

RNK-Name----------yrs-Grnt---G/Yr---Grt%--Tot--Avg/y--3yrTot
8 Witten, Jason DAL-6- $12.0m-$2.0m-43.5%-$27.6m-$4.6m-$15.0m
9 Heap, Todd BAL---6--$11.0m-$1.8m-40.0%-$27.5m-$4.6m-$14.8m

Owen Daniels is a made product of the system. Any of the tight ends on the roster can rack up similar numbers if they were to take OD's spot. Thats why I was hoping we could trade him to improve our secondary.

I am not sure the above statement is true or not but I think we ought to trade him now for the betterment of the team. We could give the team a lot more help for that money IMO.
Or maybe he is just gone at the end-of-the-year for nothing.

Owen Daniels is CRUCIAL to our offense. I've counted WAY too many times where the guy's just come up absolutely huge. Once you have a guy like him that Schaub has developed a connection with, you just don't get rid of him. Third and three? Daniels will get it. Second and 12 with everyone covered? Daniels will get it.

Let's just hope his fumbleitis from a couple years ago doesn't prop up and cost us a game now.

No one is irreplaceable (at least not on the Texans). And I'm not at all sure O.D. is worth $5M big ones a year. Dreeson is starting to come in to his own, and the two rookies Casey and Hill will only get better. I think O.D. is gone after this year unless he just wants to play here and will settle for less.

His value to a contender might be at an all-time high right now. Maybe a DT or CB or S or all of the above would be available now or we get nothing at all. I don't this team with Schaub at the helm is ever going to cross the line. Matt is a good guy, and a good quarterback. But, in my opinion he is never going to get us to the promise land. Oh well, that is another story.

WOW!!! After today...

Yeah Big T, but the writing is on the wall. They can only keep one of the two, either O.D., or Mr. Robinson. With 3 other TE's ( Casey, Dreeson, and Hill), which of the two do you think they will keep, and who do you think they will try and trade? My guess is it has to be O.D.

I agree it is a hard decision. At first I was on the train that thought that OD could be replaced; he was "merely a product of the system". But this guy is running some great pass pattern and making some spectacular catches; consistently. IMO he is a legitimate probowler. Not just because of today. He does all the time.

With that said, I feel a Phillip Rivers/Drew Brees situation arising. SD decided to go with their draft pick. Granted Rivers has been solid, but Brees has been elite since he's left. Did you see him torch NYG?

I guess if it were up to me I would demand top value for OD, especially if he makes the pro bowl. I'm talking first round. I know it seems pretty lofty, but Chicago just gave up a 2nd for "bust" Gaines Adams. I am sure we could find another sucker. No late round picks.

Maybe we move up to take Taylor Mays?

Well, the trading deadline is coming up this Tuesday I think. I think our coaches are in a need to win season, so I doubt OD or DR get traded, unless it is for a super difference maker DT and or OG or RB or FS , maybe. Maybe they acquire one of those, especially a dominant DT anyways if possible. I guess if OD and DR are good in the clubhouse, its uncapped year, if they sign for a fair amount because Texans are now a winner, keep em. If someone has lost it with the teammates or coaches then maybe gone.

Well, actually I wrote that before he played today. However, my feelings haven't really changed. He is a good quarterback and if things go his way he has a game like today, but if the team goes the other way like last week he is incapable of making a difference, it appears. That is why he has incredible stats until he hits the red zone but after that not so good.

I don't think he can take the Texans to the SB or deep into the Playoffs. Just my two cents.

What team out there would give the Texans what they would want for OD, which I assume would be a #1 or #2? I don't see any... Maybe for a player and a mid-to-low round pick, but depending on the player, I'm not sure that really helps the team this year or beyond.

I think TexanJedi brought up trading for Glenn Dorsey. I could see a fit with OD and the Chiefs, but does Dorsey help us? Would you do that??

Even though the trading deadline has passed, this is a subject which will probably will be carried over to the 2010 Draft & Offseason in general.
With Dressen, Casey, & blocking-TE Hill besides OD, we are really "too deep" at TE and with this over-commitment of precious resources at a single posiiton we should be able to part with OD for the right price, which has got to be nothing less that a high 2nd round pick or the equivalent in a combo of players/lower round pick(s).
OD just gets better and better all of the time and his performance yesterday was one of his best, but his market value may get too high for us to keep
him given the needs we have elsewhere, especially on defense ?

Correct me if I am wrong, but if no CBA is reached (which appears unlikely) both OD & Demeco will be RFA's next year. I would assume that they would be tendered the max & we have a chance to match whatever offer they get. If I am right, then why should they do anything? He/they wouldn't be able to leave without compensation & they could get them cheaper for another year.
Do that, negotiate a "fair" deal for Dunta (not bank breaking), and live happily ever....for another season.

Correct me if I am wrong, but with no CBA next year Robinson and Daniels would no longer be tethered to the Texans and could sign with whom they please for whatever deal they could get, and no compensation for us. Is that not so? I would really hate to lose both of them.

Not sure about Daniels, but I remember the media saying that DRob could be franchised again, but with a 10% raise. I think Demeco & OD fall into the same category.....whatever that category is.

as far as ryans and daniels, there could be a risk to that if the team who made an offer put a poison pill in the contract that would make it impossible for the texans to match. i think you have to get those guys signed asap

Atleast for now, I think you try hard to keep your good players if possible, it is so hard to find the good ones as we've seen over the past 7 to 8 years.

I know CBA's, economy, injuries all play into it, but I'd hate to see any of the three guys OD, Demeco, or Dunta go. Seems they are all performing at a pretty high level. The player agreement expiring could make it tricky, especially if there is lockout or mass holdouts.

Even the teams record this year likely plays into it. Are we 10-8 or just average again?

I do not think 5 big ones(millions) a year is much for any of these guys in current pay scales as compare to what other teams paying similar guys. Maybe more. The guarantee part is the tough part.

And if they can work it out now, before all those questions arise, that would be a good thing as well for Texans.

With no CBA, Owen Daniels would be a RFA again as the wait for free agency lengthens with the prospect of a future uncapped year. With a CBA, he would be an unrestricted free agent. Dunta is completely unaffected by the CBA, barring a change to franchise player rules in a new CBA.

That sounds contradictory to me. With no collective bargaining agreement to heed, seems like any player could do whatever seemed to be best for himself. Same thing for the various teams.

I can understand how it would sound contradictory when you put it that way. And I'm not sure whether I can make it any clearer (I'm operating with a fuzzy, flu-ridden brain right now), but I am quite sure all of the following is true and information backing it up can be found all over the place on the web because I've read many articles on what's coming up if they don't reach a new agreement.

When the owners voted to opt out of the current CBA (which happened last fall), it set up a timeline for a post-agreement world, i.e. the uncapped years. The rules for uncapped years, ironically enough for those who think it'll be a player windfall, are much more strictly regulated. It takes players longer to hit free agency, teams gain more tags to restrict movement, and teams that hit the playoffs have their ability to sign free agents severely limited.

Ok, see...... I didn't know that. And like you say, I thought it would be the reverse. Thanks for correcting me.

I wonder how this injury affects OD's potential cash in?

He'll be likely to have to play under another one year deal to prove that he's back from the injury much like Dunta. The Texans aren't going to offer him a big money long term deal to a guy with history of knee problems until he has proven he's healthy on the field....especially if they still control him so to speak.....and Like Dadmg said, assuming there is no new CBA OD will be a RFA again. Under the current deal he would have been a unrestricted free agent after this year, but part of the last CBA included some rules if the CBA expired without a new deal in place making it harder for players to make it to Free Agency and limiting what playoff teams are able to do in free agency. Same thing applies to Demeco as well....I think.

I'm sure some guys are going to get ridiculous money if there's no cap....but I think there will also be some teams slashing payroll under where the cap floor would have been. Prime candidates IMO....KC, St. Louis, Jacksonville, Detroit, Cleveland, and possibly Tenn?

OD would very likely have been playing under a RFA contract in 2010 whether he was hurt or not. Might have gotten a contract done before the end of the year and then would likely have cashed in pretty big in the guaranteed money arena, but most likely would have been in the RFA situation.

We'll see now if it was the system or if OD is really worth the big bucks. Love the guy and hope he gets well and gets paid someday, but if Dressen and Casey produce, I don't think he'll ever see the big bucks from the Texans.

The word is (FWIW ?), that OD could have got paid in recent months to the tune of 'bout 15 M guaranteed money but he passed on that because he was holding out for the kind of money other TEs like Winslow at TB were collecting ? Anyway, he's a big boy and he's blown out knees before so he knew such things do happen, knew the risks. In addition he and his agent knew we were entering the upcoming offseason with additional uncertainty because we may not get a new contract between owners & player-union ?
I don't think the Dressen/Casey combo will fully repalce OD Day 1, but in time I think we could be back very close to where we were with OD.

As good as OD was doing, he is no Winslow. OK for him to regard himself in that way, but he needs to understand how the NFL works on things like this. Now he is in the same boat that DRob was/is in.

I was one of the few that said OD was a product of the offense. I will stick to what i said and hopefully Casey gets healthy because I want him in there instead of Dreesen.