Ryans and Drob Skipping Workouts
 

It doesn't surprise me DRob is boycotting, but I'm a little surprised Ryans has decided to go this route. It doesn't seem to be in his nature to do that sort of thing. I understand he's upset and don't really blame him. I probably would be too if I was in his situation. However, the Texans have been burned in the past giving a young player big money based on production and before their first contract expires, so I understand why they may be a little reluctant to re-do these contracts now. Anyone remember Domanick Davis-Williams?

http://www.profootballtalk.com/category/rumor-mill/

kinda sad, all this greed. oh well. I think they should show up and be part of the team and let the team see them perform if they think they are worth more than they currently get or longer term guarantees. I think it is not the way to stay a fan favorite or a team leader which they were.

They should show up and be part of the team. I think the Texans need to make signing Ryans and OD long term a top priority. Now that most of the pro days are over they should get this done before the draft. I would take the wait and see approach to DRob. If he produces on the field I would try to lock him up during the season.

I'm not surprised and I sort of expected this. My only real concern is that Demeco is there early enough to get on the same page with Bush so that he is prepared for all the changes on the defense. He's the QB for the defense and needs to be prepared. The best thing I read in the article was that Kubiak has spoken to both of them and they told the coach they could count on them.

I've got a little more patience with Demeco than Dunta right now. Dunta got a decent deal as a rookie, and turned down what was apparently a pretty good one before he was tagged. I understand the injury risk the players go through, and Dunta is very aware of that risk now...so I can see wanting to get as much as you can while you still can. He still turned down good deal though. Either way skipping some workouts is the only tool he has, so it's no surprise he's using it.

With Demeco, he's been vastly underpaid relative to other players of his caliber. I don't remember what kind of numbers the Texans threw at him, but this is his first big contract. Not saying that he's been living off Ramen noodles the last few years, but again this is the only tool he has to use so I'm not going to blame him for using it.

I just hope it doesn't hurt the team.

This was going to happen to us eventually. Before, we had players who sucked, now we actually have talent. Congrats, we have made it to the big leagues with unhappy players and holdouts.

I hope that Rick Smith can give these guys the attention and negotiate fair contracts for both players after the draft.

Come on now, this is the business side of the game. Right now they are only doing workouts to "get into shape". And both guys are known for their hard work and all.

I was actually happy Duanta is not here, he is at a speed camp, good. He needs to be able to work on regaining the quickness he lost. This will only help.

BTW when will a team get smart and hire a speed guy to work out with it's players.

And I heard a radio interview with one of the OL guys from somewhere, and the big guys are coming up with a camp for them to get work on drills especially for them.

Lastly, this is all Negotiation 101, is wait the other guy out. And going public is the a way for the players to pressure the management.

Right now Rick Smith is doing OK, Duanta turned down a very nice deal and his leverage was taken away, now he is pissed. Oh well. Should have signed that huge deal when it was offered. What if the team drafts a younger version, bye bye leverage.

Ryan's is due, and IMO gets a big deal before the start of the season. Right now the GM is working on the draft, then it's filling out a roster, then and only then will he have time to work on these deals.

The Chronic had this in the morning paper:

Full article.

I really don't care for negotiations drama. I always press my ignore button and wait for the final outcome. Agents lie and posture about as much as politicans do, and they instruct their clients to do the same.

By the way, I ignore politicians too. I don't think I've listened to more than a couple of political speeches in the last twenty years. And I don't think I've missed a thing.

• Right now, I think there is a better chance of Dunta Robinson playing for a team other than the Texans by 2010. While I love DRob and want him back, if he is dead set on leaving the Texans as soon as he can then Rick Smith should be shopping him before and during the draft. My best guess is that the Texans could get a 2nd rounder for Robinson.
http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootba...4/post_87.html
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So say Lance Zierlein in his "Z Report".
I always had doubts about D-Robs desire to stay here before his dust-up with
GM Smith, but now I'd also agree with LZ that the Texans ought to cut their losses and deal him for a pick if this is really what he (Robinson) has in mind.

Maybe we could draft Asher Allen or Keenan Lewis to develop and be done with the D-rama from D-Rob.

If the team takes care of its business with guys like Demeco and OD this season then Dunta won't go anywhere unless we let him... we can tag him again next year for a little less than $12 million. I know that's not ideal but it's an important tool to use, either as a bargaining chip, a means to work out a trade, or a last resort to keep a probowl caliber CB.

I blame it all on Smith. Other teams have players like D-Rob who are high-strung, egotistical, very emotional but at the same time fierce competitors who are team leaders and overachievers who set high standards for their teammates by their efforts and their desire and determination to win.
But you don't tell a guy like D-Rob one thing and then renege on your promise after you fail to negotiate the contract you wanted him to sign.
I'm thinking what D-Rob is making this year and was offered in terms of a long-term deal was more than fair compensation, but that's beside the point. Guy like D-Rob, he's high-principled and plays by his his own drummer and own standards and Smith didn't handle him right. The young GM blundered badly.

I agree that Smith probably could have handled it better, but he had every right to change his mind. He should have let them know when they turned down the offer that he was going to have to franchise him. D-Rob turned down the offer before Smith made his blunder by changing his tune, so the way Smith handled the Franchise tag had nothing to do with the offer being refused. Even aadmitting fault n Smith's part Dunta is probably over-reacting. He could have handled the situation better as well. Gone to the Texans and say I don't want to play with the tag so let's get something done.


On another point....did anyone see what the Bucs gave Winslow:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4047667


OD's price just went up...making getting all three of these guys signed long term even harder.

20 M guaranteed for a TE ! Wow ! While OD certainly isn't as talented as Winslow, he's a much steadier player, much more reliable, more stable player. And he's a real fit for this system. Wonder what kind of a deal he'll get ? I fully expect him and DeMeco to get signed before this regular season begins.
But D-Rob is a much different situation. They (the Texans) have got to figure out if they can sign D-Rob, figure it out soon, and if they conclude they can't we've got to get something for him while we still can.

I dont see how Smith botched this. I like DRob and all, but he is not the 4th best CB in the league, and yet he turned down money that would have equaled #4 highest paid CB.

On one hand he is on the cusp of becomming a pro bowler, and the other he hasnt been able to get over that hump. Take that and the injury he is comming off of and turning down that much guaranteed over that long seems either greedy or dumb. I think the contract they offered was more than they should have. What is the GM supposed to do? If they caved and payed every player what they wanted it would be impossible to even field a team.

Demeco was supposedly offered #3-#4 money for a LB and turned it down also. This was reported by McClain on the radio the other day, which is why i said supposedly.

As I recall, the reporting on the Smith/Dunta feud was fairly shoddy. While the headlines blared that Smith promised Dunta that he wouldn't franchise him and then reversed course, Smith's actual quotes did not support this. According to Smith, he told Dunta he didn't want to franchise him but that the franchise tag was never off the table. Thus, I don't think it was ever a situation where Smith changed his mind. It was a situation he hoped to avoid (having to franchise Dunta) but one he simply wasn't able to. Moreover, from a logical standpoint, why would Smith conclude (in January) that he will not use the franchise tag under any circumstances? How would this have been in the Texans' interests?

Clearly, by Dunta's reaction, Smith probably could have done a better job of making sure Dunta understood his position. However, I also don't see how Dunta (and particularly his agent) would think the Texans would simply let him walk. Dunta's quotes suggest he thought the Texans would negotiate up until the franchise tender date, and if an agreement wasn't met, would simply let him hit the market to the highest bidder with the Texans getting zero in return. Such a position gives the Texans no leverage and gives Dunta no incentive to negotiate with the Texans when he can hold out for a bidding war. The notion of that is ridiculous and I think Dunta and his agent are being somewhat disingenuous to suggest this was there honest understanding.

"I asked yesterday whether Rick Smith lied to Dunta Robinson about using the franchise tag. Dunta certainly said he was deceived. Rick Smith has now addressed his alleged deceit. Sort of:

"The first thing you have to understand is a negotiation is a dynamic, thorough process," Smith said. "We had a conversation very early in the negotiation process where I indicated I didn't want to use the franchise tag on Dunta. I was clear about that because of the negative feelings around the tag.

"My approach was we were going to do everything we can do to get a deal done because we don't want to use it. But things change in a negotiation. That was our initial position for him with respect to value in a contract. And we changed on that. We offered him a deal that exceeded that.

"This whole time, up until yesterday at 4 (EDT), the franchise tag is always in play. And so when they elected to exercise their right in declining our offer to make him one of the highest-paid corners in football, we exercised out (sic) option to tag him. It's part of the deal."

I've read that excerpt at least six (6) times, and I still don't know whether I can definitively say that Rick Smith lied to Dunta. Saying "we'll do everything we can to get a deal done because we don't want to use it" isn't exactly "we're not going to slap you with the franchise tag." In that respect, I guess Smith didn't lie. Then again, reading Smith's account, I can certainly see how Dunta would feel misled. Indeed, Smith admits the team "changed" positions, which can be interpreted as a tacit admission of misrepresentation, I suppose.
Oddly enough, this additional perspective doesn't really provide a definitive answer. I'm now more sympathetic to Dunta, but Smith's account does not make me think that the Texans were somehow out of line in franchising Dunta Robinson. Where do you come down on the issue?
http://www.battleredblog.com/2009/2/...begins-to-spin
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But as the writer here says, its still not an absolutely definitive explanation.
But I can't help but think that D-Rob wouldn't be so P'OD if he didn't feel like
he was getting the green-weeny ?
I dunno, you tell me ?

This is pure speculation, but I blame the agent. My gut feeling is that the agent took whatever Smith told him and spun it, if necessary, as I've gotten them to agree to not use the franchise tag so if we don't like the offer we can hit free agency and really get paid. When that didn't happen the agent blames Smith. Again, total speculation, but if I'm a GM that's why I would make sure that I have some direct communication with a player. Even with the best intentions things can get twisted when it's second hand.

I'm probably just trying to convince myself that a player I like and have pulled for isn't being a total D-Bag and doing all this because he wants to leave. I do think that this scenario, or one like it is at least plausible.

My other new fear, besides O.D.'s price tag after the Winslow contract, is that Ryans has fired his agent...I'm worried that he wants huge money and when his agent told him he probably couldn't get that much he fired him... and now he's going to sign with someone who promised to show him the money, like Rosenhaus. that's my nightmare at least.

First, I agree that we're all guessing here but I think your scenario makes the most sense. Ever since this story first broke, I've tried to come up with a single reason why Smith would make such a promise and give away his leverage. Since I can't come up with a single one, other than Smith being an idiot (which I don't think he is), I just don't believe he would give them this promise. However, I can see an agent using something like this to persuade his player to hold out for bigger bucks. Although Dunta has to be smart enough to recognize this. I find it ironic that Dunta and his agent purportedly believe that Dunta should get paid like a top flight corner but, at the same time, are shocked that his team wouldn't just let him walk. You can't have it both ways. If you think you're that good, you should expect your team to try and keep you.

Speaking of blaming agents, according to McClain's blog, DeMeco has fired his.
And yeah, if I was Dunta, I would seriously consider firing the agent there, too. If we believe McClain (something his co-worker is having a hard time doing fwiw), Dunta had an offer on the table for $23 million guaranteed. How much more did Chayut think he was going to get for his client (and therefore himself)? Boo. Now his agent has left Dunta in a very risky position.

Frankly, I like Dunta and think he brings a spirited leadership to the team. Having said that, the team survived without him and could survive without him again if they had to. He was knocking on pro-bowler status pre-injury but post-injury, he just hasn't shown the same level, yet (IMHO).

Molden is waiting in the wings. The 2009 season could be used as an evaluation year to determine if Dunta can regain form...

Maybe the Lions would give us #65 and Cliff Avril. :D

Hey fellas, with Demeco firing his agent, Steph Stradley is reporting on her blog that Demeco is coming back to Houston and will participate in the voluntary workouts. Check out the Chron blogs. Good news.

Yes, good. Linky to Steph. She is citing a radio report on 790AM.

DeMeco's caught in a crappy situation. His greatest enemy right now is the lack of a new CBA. And if the Texans aren't going to re-open negotiations with him this summer, DeMeco's best choice is to play his heart out this season and hope for a new CBA in 2010. That starts with getting in gear with the team's offseason workout program.

I think its a good move on DeMeco's part for sure. Hopefully Team will now do something for both Demeco and OD to reciprocate and help with a good gesture, perhaps Dunta too if he comes to camp soon.

He hired Ben Dogra who represents Mario. That should be a positive since Dogra and the Texans have positive history together.

Anyone have any idea what this "scoop" McClain is supposed to have today on Dunta Robinson? He is supposed to post an article around 3, according to his chat transcript this morning.

There's a quote on the Texans official site about Dunta wanting to retire a Texan, and I assume that means he wants to sign soon and not play here at the very end of his career.

Ugh, Dunta digging in his feet.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6392245.html

Dunta is one of my favorite players, but I think he is smoking something if he thinks he is worth more than they have offered him. Maybe it is time to trade him.:mad:

He needs a new agent , similar to what Demeco did. And he needs to get himself into camp . He wants a long term deal, but Texans offered him a very fair long term deal already.

But he dosen't want a deal with the Texans. That should be obvious to all of by now. I dunno why he dosen't want to be in Houston, but he just
doe not.

I think you're right, nunusguy. What's wild is he isn't demanding a trade like most players. It's almost as if he's demanding FREE AGENCY. Which is bizarre. There is no way the team let's him go without compensation. Dunta needs to get his head straight or this could go on a LONNNG time.

And I think it's going to. I don't understand why he's behaving like this, or what he's trying to prove, but I'm hoping the Texans call his bluff. It would be ridiculous to promise not to franchise him next year, and he has to know that. The only thing that makes sense to me, since he clearly doesn't want to be in houston at this juncture, is to structure his contract like albert haynesworth's last year. load it with incentives that, if reached, block us from franchising him again. That'd get him into camp, and at absolute max effort, at that. Who knows, maybe a little playoff run with this young team might have an effect on how bad he wants to leave.

I don't really get where he's coming from in this whole situation. He's said on several occasions, even as recently as a few months ago, that he wants to retire a Texan. Does he want to be a free agent so he can travel the country picking up free steak dinners just to come back and say, "Look how loyal I am"? And what happened to "You can count on me, coach"? Not showing up till the middle of september doesn't exactly match up to that statement. The longer this goes on, and the more he digs in his heels, the more I'm becoming comfortable with trading him the second he signs his tender. For being such a "locker room guy," he sure is becoming quite the malcontent.

Could someone be kind enough to explain again how compensation (picks) to the Texans would work in the event that Dunta leaves the team at the end of the season and the alternatives the Texans have to maximize his value?

- Franchise him (one more time only?) for 2010.
- Type of franchise where another team could still sign him.
- Offer a contract at a high value . . . he declines. (league gives team compensation?)
- No contract offered. (no compensation?)
- Trade him right now for a decent running back (he must sign his tender 1st?).

Thanks,

Swap him out for RB Bush or the CB in Philly, Brown. Get something for him and get him gone. If he was a top 5 CB probably wouldn't, but he is probably not even a top 10 CB anymore. On his best days he was somewhere in the 5-10 range, but he dang sure isn't anymore. Just hike his over inflated ego backside out of town and move on.

any franchised player is allowed to negotiate with any team he chooses, and he is free to sign a contract with said team. however, the team that tagged him would receive 2 1st round draft picks as compensation. that's an awfully high price to pay for any one player, plus his salary demands. That's why franchised players stay put.

If we were to lose Dunta in free agency after offering him a contract, we would receive a compensatory pick from the league, though I'm not sure exactly how that works.

We can't trade him now because he hasn't signed his tender, and therefore is not currently a member of the houston texans. He has to sign in order to be traded, which is one reason why no one has made a play for Peppers.

At this point, i'd take sheldon brown in a heartbeat. Dunta has always been one of my favorite players, but he's really putting a sour taste in my mouth with the way he's handling this situation.

All I know at this point is that we'd better give owen daniels his money, despite the addition of james casey. He's the only one of the 3 with contract issues that has showed up. That had better count for something.

there is a story on Texans web site about Dunta wants to stay
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/St...?STORY_ID=5243

Also Demeco has been in the offseson training the past week.

Some stories out there about Dunta saying he'll play for less than the 10m franchise tag, just give him a fair long term deal.

previously there were stories he had turned down like 18mil guranteed, not sure how many years that covered or what rest of deal was. thus the franchise. maybe Dunta needs a better agent.

so, for me, while I don't like the holdout at all, seems perhaps just need to be patient and this will get negotiated fairly soon. Dunta needs to do like Demeco and show up in training now if he really wants to stay.

But if not, I'm not real sure Dunta is a top 10 CB and while we might miss him, maybe not so much.

And the whole collective bargining agreement will likely change over this next year, so whatever rules are today, will be changing. hopefully to be more fair overall to both players and teams so things don't get to this so much in the future.

superbowlbound already answered most of this, but for more info on how compensatory picks work, AdamJT13 has a detailed summary.

The Texans can still choose to franchise him again for 2010, and they can trade his rights to another team anytime.

The days of Dunta being a bargain are over. His rookie contract is finished. For the money he is asking, we could add a premier player either at his position or someplace else. If we ditch him for reasonable compensation (second or third rounder in next year's draft) I will be more than satisfied.