The Halfback Pass vs. the Jags

[WMH]

OK, I was not a big fan of this discussion until today. We are toast, the fat lady is singing, and we need to find someone with enough freaking intelligence to NOT let Chris Brown throw a f*cking HB pass in a crucial game. I mean GEEZ, what they hell are you thinking. Taking the ball out of Schaub and AJ's hands? That alone should get him shown the door tomorrow. PERIOD.

Unfreaking believable......:mad:

[barrett]

Does anyone still think Kubiak should be employed by us next year? Every time there is a key play in a game we crumble.

I honestly hope this was the final nail in the coffin. I am a big Kubiak fan and I think he did a great job of fixing our franchise after the Capers fiasco, but it is clear we go no further with him.

[Big Texas]

Does anyone still think Kubiak should be employed by us next year? Every time there is a key play in a game we crumble.

I honestly hope this was the final nail in the coffin. I am a big Kubiak fan and I think he did a great job of fixing our franchise after the Capers fiasco, but it is clear we go no further with him.

The fact that that play made it onto the field was mind boggling.

[barrett]

The fact that that play made it onto the field was mind boggling.

I didn't think it was possible for us to invent a whole new way to lose, but a Chris Brown interception on FIRST and goal proved me wrong. Seriously, how does that call get made on first down? It's a bad call on 3rd down, but on first down it is criminal. Someone should get fired on Monday for that one.

[Big Texas]

First of all that play should've never even made it onto the field. Secondly whomever called that play should be fined for even considering it.

"How about the HB pass coach?"

"What? Get the hell outta here. Don't bother showing up Monday either, cuz obviously you are here to sabotage us"

[TheMatrix31]

Does anyone still think Kubiak should be employed by us next year? Every time there is a key play in a game we crumble.

I honestly hope this was the final nail in the coffin. I am a big Kubiak fan and I think he did a great job of fixing our franchise after the Capers fiasco, but it is clear we go no further with him.

After today....this is what I feel. I love what Kubiak has done, and I like HIM on the sidelines, but....its been unacceptable.

[Mike]

It was a stupid call because it did not work. Now, if that was the Jags, and it was MJD, I bet the pass would have been completed.

The Dolphins are kicking themselves in the ass, they tried that with Ricky Williams 2 weeks ago, and they lost a similiar game. I think sometimes OC's try to get to smart, instead of letting the best players make the plays.

[Big Texas]

It was a stupid call because it did not work. Now, if that was the Jags, and it was MJD, I bet the pass would have been completed.

The Dolphins are kicking themselves in the ass, they tried that with Ricky Williams 2 weeks ago, and they lost a similiar game. I think sometimes OC's try to get to smart, instead of letting the best players make the plays.

I have replayed it over and over again. I cannot see why he threw that ball. If you are gonna call that play, it should be drilled into the RB's head "if it is not there don't throw it"

[Big Texas]

The problem is our OC trying to do things he is not accustomed to. Kyle is not known for his aggressive and creative play calling. He gets by on throwing short slants and play action passes. Why now try to get cute? That cute shit didn't even get you there to begin with.

[barrett]

It was a stupid call because it did not work. Now, if that was the Jags, and it was MJD, I bet the pass would have been completed.

The Dolphins are kicking themselves in the ass, they tried that with Ricky Williams 2 weeks ago, and they lost a similiar game. I think sometimes OC's try to get to smart, instead of letting the best players make the plays.

It's a stupid call because it's first down. I think you are better off running that play from the 20 or so since it gives room for the Defense to get sucked up, but if I am going to run it on the goalline, I definitely don't do it on 1st down. Take a shot or two trying to put the ball into the endzone before you take a big risk there.

[TheMatrix31]

It's a stupid call because it's first down. I think you are better off running that play from the 20 or so since it gives room for the Defense to get sucked up, but if I am going to run it on the goalline, I definitely don't do it on 1st down. Take a shot or two trying to put the ball into the endzone before you take a big risk there.

And even THEN it'd still be f'n stupid. I'm sick of Chris Brown and his BS. He's cost us two games. Loser should have never been signed or retained to begin with.

[Big Texas]

I don't know the full story, but we left Jacoby because he was late to a meeting?

If so, that's some bullshit. I guess that missed meeting may have cost him his job. There were definitely some opportunities for punt returns.

[TheMatrix31]

I don't know the full story, but we left Jacoby because he was late to a meeting?

If so, that's some bullshit. I guess that missed meeting may have cost him his job. There were definitely some opportunities for punt returns.

Meh. That guy is just as likely to do something incredibly ridiculous as he is likely to do something positive.

[sinnister]

It was one of the worst calls I have ever seen. And please, why don't we throw AJ a few freaking screens......I mean, really. The best player on our team. Please.

[gunn]

Mediocre teams always seem to find ways to lose games. That's the case with this Texans team.

[coloradodude]

Gadget plays are either used by a good offense and its playmakers to screw with a defensive coordinators head or are used by a bad offense to attempt to mask its inadequacies.

[popanot]

I've said time and time again this staff runs the wackiest of plays when in the redzone it's mind-numbing. I've never seen anything like it in all the years I've been watching football. This was not only the wackiest of them all, it should be the one that gets Kubiak and his merry band of idiots a free ride out of town on the circus bus. Inexcusable.

To have Chris Brown getting most of the PT at this point in the season, Kubiak's career, and the Texas existence is mind-boggling . Kubiak's had 4 years to find a RB and has given us the likes of Samkon Gado, Ron Dayne, a crippled Ahman Green and now Chris Brown as starters. Moats fumbles once and goes into Kubiak's doghouse, while the dumb@ss lets Brown continue playing after blowing 2 games and doing virtually nothing to merit getting the amount of time and carries he gets. I don't get it and it's time for this staff to go away. Please, McNair, for my sanity - spare us!!!

[gunn]

Gadget plays are either used by a good offense and its playmakers to screw with a defensive coordinators head or are used by a bad offense to attempt to mask its inadequacies.

If I could pinpoint one reason, it would probably be because of the finesse scheme and personel on the offensive side of the ball.

[Joshua]

I'm actually not sure what is worse, the play call or the fact that they obviously weren't prepared to run the play. If you are going to have a HB option play in your playbook, you damn well better have practiced it to the point where the back knows what to do if the play isn't there. Clearly, Chris Brown didn't. He should have eaten it and just taken the loss. Trying to throw the ball while being hit is inexcusable and I blame Kubiak for not coaching them up to know what to do if the play goes astray. Just the latest in a long list of indicators that Kubiak doesn't take care of the little things and doesn't have what it takes to prepare a team to play week in and week out.

[TexanJedi]

It was a bad call with even worse execution (is it not called a half back OPTION pass?, meaning Brown has the option to not throw it), but it did not cost us the game by itself. The defense held and the Texans got the ball back and scored a TD - nice play call to the offensive machine Chris Brown on the two point conversion attempt. The Texans loss had more to do with the inability to stop the Jaguar offense when it counted the most, on 3rd down and at the end of both halves. This particular play cost us more time than anything.

[popanot]

This particular play cost us more time than anything.Which brings us to another thing... Does Kubiak and his band of idiots know how the run a no-huddle, hurry up offense? These guys are two scores down with ~5 minutes left and they huddle up and/or lollygag around like they still have a quarter to play. This has occurred in numerous games whether it's the first half or second half. Sure if they stop the Jags on the last drive they MIGHT have enough time to score, but with the way this game was going and this season has gone, the probability of that happening is pretty slim. Why not go no-huddle earlier and try to have as much time as possible? Oh, that's right... Kubiak's a fk'in idiot!!

[TexanJedi]

Which brings us to another thing... Does Kubiak and his band of idiots know how the run a no-huddle, hurry up offense? These guys are two scores down with ~5 minutes left and they huddle up and/or lollygag around like they still have a quarter to play. This has occurred in numerous games whether it's the first half or second half. Sure if they stop the Jags on the last drive they MIGHT have enough time to score, but with the way this game was going and this season has gone, the probability of that happening is pretty slim. Why not go no-huddle earlier and try to have as much time as possible? Oh, that's right... Kubiak's a fk'in idiot!!

Well time management is one of his glaring weaknesses as a head coach. I wanted things to change and did not want to see this team take a step back under new management, but I'm beyond that now. It's time for a change in culture.

[Mike]

Back to the play... The issue is this, he put Chris Brown in an unfamiliar situation. He put him in a bad situation, he was placed in a position to do something out of the ordinary for his position. It is like asking Antonio Smith to cover MDJ if he splits out. It is just dumb.

I know it has been said that he should have thrown it away, and that is 100% true. In the heat of the play, it is often tough to do that. That is why we pay Schaub all that money...to throw the ball, and not have Chris Brown throw it. In my past experience running that idiotic play, I was always afraid to throw the pick, so I usually just ran it and ate the ball, afraid to do with CB did.

People named Brown have now possibly cost us 5 games this year....and counting.

[edo783]

Back to the play... The issue is this, he put Chris Brown in an unfamiliar situation. He put him in a bad situation, he was placed in a position to do something out of the ordinary for his position. It is like asking Antonio Smith to cover MDJ if he splits out. It is just dumb.

I know it has been said that he should have thrown it away, and that is 100% true. In the heat of the play, it is often tough to do that. That is why we pay Schaub all that money...to throw the ball, and not have Chris Brown throw it. In my past experience running that idiotic play, I was always afraid to throw the pick, so I usually just ran it and ate the ball, afraid to do with CB did.

People named Brown have now possibly cost us 5 games this year....and counting.

Actually, according to Kubes and Matt, they practiced that play this last week and they got exactly what they wanted in the game. Brown mishandled the transition of the ball in order to pass it and then was hit as he was passing it. According to them, they had their guy open n the back of the end zone. Its on the main sites videos if you want to watch it.

[chuck]

Actually, according to Kubes and Matt, they practiced that play this last week and they got exactly what they wanted in the game. Brown mishandled the transition of the ball in order to pass it and then was hit as he was passing it. According to them, they had their guy open n the back of the end zone. Its on the main sites videos if you want to watch it.

I could give a rat's ass if the play almost worked. It should not even be in the freaking playbook. Remember when the Colts, THE COLTS, had Reggie Wayne throw a pass? Remember how THAT worked out for them? Yeah.

[Fonz the Boss]

I am convinced that that call will cost Kubiak his job... you can quote me on that. Even if we win the rest of our games (which we wont) Kubiak will be gone and and we will be spending the offseason looking for a new leader.

[popanot]

Look how Chris Brown (who has NEVER thrown a pass in a game - I wonder why?) is holding the ball moments before attempting the 'pass'.

http://www.chron.com/photos/2009/12/06/19497348/260xStory.jpg

And this brilliant staff was actually confident this play would work... Yeah, their man 'was open'. The problem was GETTING HIM THE BALL!!!!!

[barrett]

Which brings us to another thing... Does Kubiak and his band of idiots know how the run a no-huddle, hurry up offense? These guys are two scores down with ~5 minutes left and they huddle up and/or lollygag around like they still have a quarter to play. This has occurred in numerous games whether it's the first half or second half. Sure if they stop the Jags on the last drive they MIGHT have enough time to score, but with the way this game was going and this season has gone, the probability of that happening is pretty slim. Why not go no-huddle earlier and try to have as much time as possible? Oh, that's right... Kubiak's a fk'in idiot!!

I think we gave this game away and am ready to string up everyone involved, but I disagree here.

Not hurrying is exactly what you do when you are down by 2 scores with 5 minutes left. In that situation the number one goal is to get the first score no matter what since the game is over without it. Then if it took too long you still have the onsides option. We did it perfectly in that all we need to do is make three tackles and we will get the ball back with over 2 minutes left (more time than you need).

Our 3rd down defense, the TD at the end of the half, lack of tackling in the end, the HB pass, the turnovers, Jacoby flaking, etc... Our team melted down here and gave the game away a dozen times without a doubt and I hope Kubiak is unemployed as a result. But that TD drive was one of the few things we did right all game.

[TexanJedi]

Look how Chris Brown (who has NEVER thrown a pass in a game - I wonder why?) is holding the ball moments before attempting the 'pass'.

http://www.chron.com/photos/2009/12/06/19497348/260xStory.jpg

And this brilliant staff was actually confident this play would work... Yeah, their man 'was open'. The problem was GETTING HIM THE BALL!!!!!

But that's why it's so genius! Who would ever see it coming? And I cannot recall ever seeing a half back option pass that close to the goal line.

In fairness, Dreesen was wide open in the back of the end zone.

[popanot]

I think we gave this game away and am ready to string up everyone involved, but I disagree here.

Not hurrying is exactly what you do when you are down by 2 scores with 5 minutes left. In that situation the number one goal is to get the first score no matter what since the game is over without it. Then if it took too long you still have the onsides option. We did it perfectly in that all we need to do is make three tackles and we will get the ball back with over 2 minutes left (more time than you need).

Our 3rd down defense, the TD at the end of the half, lack of tackling in the end, the HB pass, the turnovers, Jacoby flaking, etc... Our team melted down here and gave the game away a dozen times without a doubt and I hope Kubiak is unemployed as a result. But that TD drive was one of the few things we did right all game.We'll have to disagree here then. With the way this game was going and our lack of productivity pretty much throughout, I feel you have to give yourself as much time as possible and try to keep them on their heels and keep them from shuffling in fresh players. Trying to rely on the defense making one last stop is gambling with this team. And it's a gamble I personally would not feel confident in making. I guess that's part of my problem with this staff. They're unwilling to gamble on a no-huddle (and like I said, it's not only this game), but are willing to gamble on a HB pass and our defense coming through. Of course, the defense SHOULD have come through, but history indicates the likelihood of that happening is fairly small.

[barrett]

We'll have to disagree here then. With the way this game was going and our lack of productivity pretty much throughout, I feel you have to give yourself as much time as possible and try to keep them on their heels and keep them from shuffling in fresh players. Trying to rely on the defense making one last stop is gambling with this team. And it's a gamble I personally would not feel confident in making. I guess that's part of my problem with this staff. They're unwilling to gamble on a no-huddle (and like I said, it's not only this game), but are willing to gamble on a HB pass and our defense coming through. Of course, the defense SHOULD have come through, but history indicates the likelihood of that happening is fairly small.

Every coach I have ever talked to, listened to an interview from, or worked for has said the same thing about being down two scores in the 4th quarter. The most important thing is scoring because if you don't the game is over. The 2nd most important thing is leaving enough time on the clock to get the ball back. The Texans accomplished both. They scored a TD on that drive, and they left themselves plenty of time to get the ball back. That means they did exactly what they needed to. This was one of the only bright spots of yesterday's game (the only other one I can think of was the goalline stand in the 1st).

[chuck]

(the only other one I can think of was the goalline stand in the 1st)

As a fan I was very proud of that effort. That will surely be a highlight in a season with precious few of them. The goal line stand. Andre fighting his way into the end zone. Well. That's about it so far.

Anyway, yeah, that can be the silver lining here, that we're hopefully seeing the maturation of the front seven.

[popanot]

Every coach I have ever talked to, listened to an interview from, or worked for has said the same thing about being down two scores in the 4th quarter. The most important thing is scoring because if you don't the game is over. The 2nd most important thing is leaving enough time on the clock to get the ball back. The Texans accomplished both. They scored a TD on that drive, and they left themselves plenty of time to get the ball back. That means they did exactly what they needed to. This was one of the only bright spots of yesterday's game (the only other one I can think of was the goalline stand in the 1st).Sure, they did what they needed to and had time left on the clock. My point is, this team has time and time played it like they can win a game if they just "play the clock" - whether its the first half of a game or the second half. And time and time again they've failed and lost (did it again yesterday). They pretty much sucked yesterday save for maybe one drive. Why not try something different (not HB pass different, but different) to get them off balance or leave even more time available? Somehow or another I think the good teams like the Colts, Pats, Vikings, Saints, etc. would have either been in a no-huddle or at least had a bigger sense of urgency.

[barrett]

Sure, they did what they needed to and had time left on the clock. My point is, this team has time and time played it like they can win a game if they just "play the clock" - whether its the first half of a game or the second half. And time and time again they've failed and lost (did it again yesterday). They pretty much sucked yesterday save for maybe one drive. Why not try something different (not HB pass different, but different) to get them off balance or leave even more time available? Somehow or another I think the good teams like the Colts, Pats, Vikings, Saints, etc. would have either been in a no-huddle or at least had a bigger sense of urgency.

Actually, the Pats opened the season with an almost identical situation against the Bills. They had played terrible and found themselves down 2 TDs with short time left. They calmly marched down field with short passes. They did not rush. They made sure they scored. And when they did, they had even less time left then the Texans. But then when they had a chance to make a play, they made it (fumble on the ensuing kickoff). The Colts are even less urgent when they are behind. They simply go about business as usual, assuming they will make every play they need to make.

The Texans played that drive Just fine. They gave themselves a great chance to get the ball back and win. They just failed to make plays at the most crucial spots of the game (like they always do). Even Cushing and Ryans, their surest tacklers let MJD slip through key tackles. Once again they made plenty of plays to get into position for a win, they just spit the bit when it counted.

[NBT]

The play didn't work because CB didn't get time to throw. The FB took the inside tackler instead of the outside one, causing the pulling guard to not have a chance to block the outside, or inside guy. If it had been blocked correctly the play had a chance of succeeding. I think Baby Shanny is the real culprit on that play.

[Keith]

I think Baby Shanny is the real culprit on that play.
The buck stops with Kubiak of course, but this was my first thought even as the play was unfolding.

I'm guessing Kubiak is in heavy protect mode of Baby Shan (outside closed doors at least). Dom Capers had to learn the hard way here about protecting his assistants. It took Kubiak a year too long to replace Richard Smith as DC.

And the ironic thing is that if a defensive-minded head coach is hired to replace Kubiak (whether it is in 2010 or beyond), it seems conceivable that McNair and Rick Smith keep Baby Shan and much of the offensive system and coaches in place when showing Kubiak the door.

[TheMatrix31]

That's the thing. I don't want to lose our offensive punch. I just want to play smarter, with more polish and discipline. Our STYLE of play is fine.

[chuck]

The halfback pass might have been the worst play the Texans have run in the franchise's history but it is nowhere near the worst play of all time, much less the worst play in the NFL this year.

Viewable for now here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3BorxSYgyo

I am absolutely in awe of the level of stupidity required to devise such a travesty much less decide to run it in front of the entire football world on Monday night. Wow.