Front Office/HC/OC/DC who do you want?

[painekiller]

For the exercise of it. This is if things continue on the current path.

GM - Floyd Reese - currently with the Pats
HC - Mike Tice Asst HC Jags
Asst HC offense - Andy Heck Currently with Jags OL
OC - Kyle Shanahan Our current passing game with more of a power run added by Tice/Heck


DC - Bob Sutten Currently with the Jets as Asst HC LBs. He has 4-3 and 3-4 background


It just a thought. Give your reasons for your choices.

[WMH]

Come on guy....its week 4 of 17.

I for one am not ready to throw in the towel on these guys yet. It has been said over and over, but we are a couple of bonehead plays from easily being 2-1 (Jets was the exception, and TN should have been waaay less dramatic).

[barrett]

Tice was awful in Minnesota and is now with a crumbling Jags organization. I'm curious what you see in him.

[Mike]

Mike Tice? Seriously? Gosh no. He is a meathead.

Kyle is as good as gone. If Mike gets a gig (which he will) then he will go work for his dad.

Mike Shanahan, Bill Cowher and Mike Holmgren will be vying for the two open big jobs (Dallas and Washington).

I'll take Gary Kubiak and the hope that this team turns it around.

[popanot]

I'm OK with Kubiak if he'd just hire a top-notch DC and build with that foundation. If John Fox, Marvin Lewis or Dick Jauron get fired, I'd look at one of those guys as DC. Of course, this would have to be a forced move by McNair because, whether true or not, it doesn't appear that Kubiak wants someone in that role that is a threat to his security. I hope that's not the case because it would be pretty foolish considering you don't have much security if your team sucks. I just can't think of any other reason why he keeps hiring inexperienced DCs when it's been a glaring weakness since he's been here. And other than Mike Sherman, he's done the same thing with OCs... :mad:

[Mike]

I am not sure that Gary is threatened by other coaches. He hired Sherm, Rhodes, Gibbs sr. With that being said, if the defense sucks all year, then he may be "nudged" to make a change in the DC. If they improve, then I think Frank gets a reprive.

I do agree that if things are not improved on the D, then I would not mind seeing any of the individuals you mention, or Wade Phillips.

[painekiller]

For the exercise of it. This is if things continue on the current path.


If things continue on the current path you still want Kubiak? Why? The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.

Comparing Kubiak to Fisher is inaccurate due to the Oilers road show years with no home park, he held the Oilers together when they played in Memphis in front of nobody. Kubiak has a full stands of rabid fans, no comparison.

As for Tice, he is a teacher, I like teachers, he is from the Sid Gillman coaching tree, as is Kubiak. He would know our playbooks language. Both pluses in my book.


I have another name for HC that might garner some glances Jim Harbaugh, he is doing a solid job at Stanford, he was the QB coach of the Raiders when they went to the Super Bowl and they where running the WCO, they where a scoring machine.

If the elder Shanahan gets hired and wants the younger let him go.

I did not mention it earlier, but you must keep Matthews in some position.

IMO we are not going to hire Shanahan, I don't want him anyway. Cowher is not coming to Houston, Billick the offensive genius has had the worse offenses in the league. His DCs and Ray Lewis made him look successful.

I don't see any huge names coming to coach in Houston until we get better.

[popanot]

I am not sure that Gary is threatened by other coaches. He hired Sherm, Rhodes, Gibbs sr..The problem with that list is Sherm was known to be short-term and pretty much a lock for the A&M position. Gibbs was nothing more than a OL coach when he was brought in. Rhodes, as I recall, came in with some medical issues and stated he did not want the stress and hours involved with being DC and only wanted to be a position coach. So, I don't think any of those guys would be considered threats to Kubiak's position as HC when they were brought in. If they can't turn it around in a week or two, I'd be begging Rhodes to take over the DC role for the rest of the year. As for Wade, I'm good with him as DC too.

[sinnister]

For the exercise of it. This is if things continue on the current path.

GM - Floyd Reese - currently with the Pats
HC - Mike Tice Asst HC Jags
Asst HC offense - Andy Heck Currently with Jags OL
OC - Kyle Shanahan Our current passing game with more of a power run added by Tice/Heck



Tice was terrible in Minnesota. If Kubiak is going, then he should be replaced by someone like a Bill Cowher. I doubt he would take the job though.

[Arky]

If things continue on the current path you still want Kubiak? Why? The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.

Comparing Kubiak to Fisher is inaccurate due to the Oilers road show years with no home park, he held the Oilers together when they played in Memphis in front of nobody. Kubiak has a full stands of rabid fans, no comparison.

As for Tice, he is a teacher, I like teachers, he is from the Sid Gillman coaching tree, as is Kubiak. He would know our playbooks language. Both pluses in my book.



Mike Tice:

2001 MIN 0 - 1
2002 MIN 6 - 10
2003 MIN 9 - 7
2004 MIN 8 - 8
2005 MIN 9 - 7

Operating under "you are what your record says you are", that's kind of what we have now, isn't it?

Kubes has transformed the offense into one of the league's best. While the defense has been stagnant during his tenure, I've seen the effort being made to improve it and understand why it was assembled the way it was. When some of the draft picks and FA's don't work out, then you get the limboland like we have now. Still, despite what the stats say, this year's defense has some positive things going on that I haven't seen in years past....

Fisher did an admirable job of holding the Oilers-->Tennessee Oilers-->Titans together during his early years. Conversely, had he had a stadium full of rabid fans in a stable organization, he might not have been granted such a long leash and ended up in the scrap heap of mediocre coaches. We'll just never know.

As far as asst. coaches go, the Texans have on paper some of the league's best - Gibbs, Rhodes, Kollar... Some impressive resumes, there.... The thing about Kubes is that he's not threatened by any of these guys - he doesn't let his ego get in the way of the ultimate goal of making the team better... For every "1st timer", there's a veteran coach nearby..

[HPF Bob]

I don't understand even fantasizing about coaching changes in September. That's like contemplating firing baseball managers in April.

[TexanJedi]

I don't understand even fantasizing about coaching changes in September. That's like contemplating firing baseball managers in April.

So Kubes should get an extension now and fired in January?:)

[Roy P]

For the exercise of it. This is if things continue on the current path.

GM - Floyd Reese - currently with the Pats
HC - Mike Tice Asst HC Jags
Asst HC offense - Andy Heck Currently with Jags OL
OC - Kyle Shanahan Our current passing game with more of a power run added by Tice/Heck


DC - Bob Sutten Currently with the Jets as Asst HC LBs. He has 4-3 and 3-4 background


It just a thought. Give your reasons for your choices.

I always love these type of "what if" scenarios. So, let me try to get some names down on paper.

GM - Howie Roseman Currently VP player personnel
http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/eagles_files/html/ops_roseman_h_1.html

HC - Marty Mornhinweg Currently Assistent HC/Offensive OC
http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/eagles_files/html/coach_mornhinweg_1.html

OC - John Matsko Currently Ravens OL coach
http://www.baltimoreravens.com/People/Coaches/John_Matsko.aspx

DC - Dennis Thurman Currently Jets Defensive Backs coach
http://www.newyorkjets.com/team/coach/1420-dennis-thurman

This combo would create an attacking WCO that would utilize Slaton like Westbrook and create confusion and turnovers on defense. What's not to like?

[HPF Bob]

So Kubes should get an extension now and fired in January?:)

Well, if the quarterbacks are on a pitch count, most definitely. :p

[Roy P]

I always love these type of "what if" scenarios. So, let me try to get some names down on paper.

OC - John Matsko Currently Ravens OL coach
http://www.baltimoreravens.com/People/Coaches/John_Matsko.aspx



After mulling it over, I've changed my mind about the OC. I want to keep the WCO and the terminology we already have. So, in order to keep Marty and his OC from butting heads, I'm going to go with another WCO guy. He's already been an OC in the league too.

OC - Tom Clements Currently Packers QB coach
http://www.packers.com/team/coaches/clements_tom/

Before coming to Green Bay, Clements spent two seasons (2004-05) as offensive coordinator for the Buffalo Bills. In 2004, the Bills' offense increased its points output by 152 and became only the ninth team in NFL history to score more than 30 points in six straight games. In addition, Buffalo reduced its number of sacks allowed from 51 to 38, fewest by a Bills team since 1999.

On an individual level, Clements' offense was highlighted by RB Willis McGahee, who became the fifth running back in Bills history to register back-to-back 1,000-yard seasons, covering each year of Clements' tenure. In addition, quarterback Kelly Holcomb set a club record in 2005 with a 67.39 completion percentage, surpassing Jim Kelly's 1991 mark, 64.14 percent.

[painekiller]

I always love these type of "what if" scenarios. So, let me try to get some names down on paper.

GM - Howie Roseman Currently VP player personnel
http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/eagles_files/html/ops_roseman_h_1.html

HC - Marty Mornhinweg Currently Assistent HC/Offensive OC
http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/eagles_files/html/coach_mornhinweg_1.html

OC - John Matsko Currently Ravens OL coach
http://www.baltimoreravens.com/People/Coaches/John_Matsko.aspx

DC - Dennis Thurman Currently Jets Defensive Backs coach
http://www.newyorkjets.com/team/coach/1420-dennis-thurman

This combo would create an attacking WCO that would utilize Slaton like Westbrook and create confusion and turnovers on defense. What's not to like?

I had forgotten about Morninghinweg, nice one.

[painekiller]

I'm back to we need new leadership. Kubiak and his scheme is .500 ball.

I'm done with him, and you cannot sell me a Kubiak coached team next season.

[Roy P]

As long as we can get some Philly folks, I'd be happy. Perhaps we would get some bigger O-Linemen and pass the ball and be happy. Maybe the D would actually create some pressure on the QB.

[barrett]

As long as we can get some Philly folks, I'd be happy. Perhaps we would get some bigger O-Linemen and pass the ball and be happy. Maybe the D would actually create some pressure on the QB.

I'm not real high on Philly. They have been above average for a decade and have never won anything. They have a one dimensional offense that doesn't run the ball and their defense got shredded by the only decent offense it has faced this year.

[TheMatrix31]

Who do you people suggest?

[painekiller]

I'm not real high on Philly. They have been above average for a decade and have never won anything. They have a one dimensional offense that doesn't run the ball and their defense got shredded by the only decent offense it has faced this year.

That is the HC calling the plays. Once he passed off the play calling last season they won 6 in arow with a balanced attach. Laugh if you want
but Mornhinweg has an excellent resume.

[painekiller]

Who do you people suggest?

They few guys I liked where hired in the last the off season. Rex Ryan was my 1st choice. Jim Schwartz was my 2nd choice. And Mike Singletary was my 3rd choice. I also like Mike Nolan and he can be had.

Now I am open, unless Jeff Fisher becomes available.

[edo783]

I hear Tom Cable will be available.

[popanot]

Mornhinweg can have the best resume in the world, but all fans will remember is his failed tenure with the lowly Lions. If this team hires him it will prove to me McNair has no clue at all and I'll bet season ticket sales will go into the toilet. If they want to raid the Eagles for some of their front office people, I'm good with that as they've shown they know how to run a franchise with an eye on fiscal responsibility.

[chuck]

I hear Tom Cable will be available.

Nope. He's going to be coaching a team that wears striped britches. And I'm not talking about today's Broncos.

[painekiller]

Mornhinweg can have the best resume in the world, but all fans will remember is his failed tenure with the lowly Lions. If this team hires him it will prove to me McNair has no clue at all and I'll bet season ticket sales will go into the toilet. If they want to raid the Eagles for some of their front office people, I'm good with that as they've shown they know how to run a franchise with an eye on fiscal responsibility.

Give a name or two that you think can be sold to the fans. And remember that is what Capers was considered.

IMO the big named guys are not coming to Houston.

[Roy P]

Who do you people suggest?

GM - Howie Roseman Currently VP player personnel
http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/ea...seman_h_1.html

HC - Marty Mornhinweg Currently Assistent HC/Offensive OC
http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/ea...nhinweg_1.html

OC - Tom Clements Currently Packers QB coach
http://www.packers.com/team/coaches/clements_tom/

DC - Dennis Thurman Currently Jets Defensive Backs coach
http://www.newyorkjets.com/team/coac...dennis-thurman


I think I put this somewhere. I'm not married to Thurman at the DC. I'd be more than happy to get someone on Jim Johnson's coaching tree like Rory Segrest or Bill Shuey. Before we hired Frank Bush, I was hopeful we'd at least interview Sean McDermott (who has taken over since JJ's death for the Eagles).

[Roy P]

Mornhinweg can have the best resume in the world, but all fans will remember is his failed tenure with the lowly Lions. If this team hires him it will prove to me McNair has no clue at all and I'll bet season ticket sales will go into the toilet.

The fans won't care if he's not an Aggie or from Texas or coached the Lions, when this team finally has MORE wins than losses.

McNair would prove that he wants this team to get better. Once the Texans make the playoffs, we won't be able to buy season tickets at face value.

[popanot]

The fans won't care if he's not an Aggie or from Texas or coached the Lions, when this team finally has MORE wins than losses.

McNair would prove that he wants this team to get better. Once the Texans make the playoffs, we won't be able to buy season tickets at face value.What does Aggie or Texas have to do with anything? You may think he's fantastic, but I'll guarantee you what most fans will see is 'Marty Mornhinweg, ex-coach fired by one of the worst franchises ever'. He may turn out great, but fans are not going to like it and it will show at the gate. That's all I'm saying.

[painekiller]

Some names I want to hear some input on .

Jim Harbaugh, former QB coach of the Raiders, current HC of Stanford.

An old name not mentioned recently, Steve Mariucci. I know he was another Lions bust, but was it the coaches or the GM and lack of talent?

Mike Heimerdinger is another WCO general who has had mixed success. A former roommate of Shanahan's.

Brian Schottenheimer, Marty's son, is the current Jets OC. He is having some success.

Old School, Dan Henning currently the OC with the Dolphins.

[popanot]

Give a name or two that you think can be sold to the fans. And remember that is what Capers was considered.

IMO the big named guys are not coming to Houston.I don't think it has to be a big named guy, but I do think they'd have a hard sell with Mornhinweg considering his head coaching history. It would not create excitment and I think it'd be a downer to most. The thought would be "Well, he failed miserably in Detroit and now we hire him?". Like I said, you and Roy may love him and he may be great, but I don't think most fans would buy it. And I don't think McNair would want to do that considering how awful this franchise has been. Just my opinion...

If you want me to throw out big name coaches, then I'll go with Holmgren or Gruden. Not that I neccessarily want either of them (although I'd probably be fine with either). I just think those are two big name guys who would come here for the right offer. No way Cowher comes here and no way we hire Shanahan after Kubiak.

[painekiller]

I am going out on a limb here and saying what about this lineup?

GM Ron Hughes current Head of College scouting for the steelers.
HC Dick LeBeau steelers DC
OC Ken Anderson current QB coach steelers
DC Ray Horton current DB coach steelers.

That not's going to happen.

[painekiller]

If you want me to throw out big name coaches, then I'll go with Holmgren or Gruden. Not that I neccessarily want either of them (although I'd probably be fine with either). I just think those are two big name guys who would come here for the right offer. No way Cowher comes here and no way we hire Shanahan after Kubiak.

And I do not see any reason for Holmgren to come out of retirement for the Houston Texans.

And I think Gruden is a joke of a HC. I do not think he wins without Kiffen as DC.

So it's either another young guy with no experience or a recycled loser.

As an alternative to Gruden give me Mariucci, and I might be interested.

[painekiller]

What does Aggie or Texas have to do with anything? You may think he's fantastic, but I'll guarantee you what most fans will see is 'Marty Mornhinweg, ex-coach fired by one of the worst franchises ever'. He may turn out great, but fans are not going to like it and it will show at the gate. That's all I'm saying.

IMO Marty is just another name on the list. He has a good resume. But he is not my front runner.

I have not decided who that is, as mentioned my 3 hot names from before have all been hired in the last 12 months as new HC. (Ryan, Schwartz and Singletary)

I am thinking Brian Schottenheimer, Mike Nolan, and Dan Henning are the top of my list, but it can and will change.

[popanot]

I think Holmgren would come here for the right offer. This team is not that bad personnel wise. If he had control of the roster and the money was right, I could see him coming here. I'm not a big fan of Gruden either. I'm just saying that he'd probably come here if the offer was right. Mariucci seems really comfortable with his NFLN gig. I don't get the feeling he's interested in coaching or feels he has more to prove (like Gruden/Shanahan, etc.). I don't know... I think I need to let the season play out a bit before analyzing who would be good candidates. An assistant or two might emerge similar to Haley last year. Man, this is so frustrating!!

[barrett]

Name guys will go wherever they can get paid. The current trend is to hire young guys for low salaries. Nobody is knocking down the door for cower, holmgren, shanahan, etc...

I don't know if I want one of those guys, but they could be had if McNair opens the wallet.

[TexanJedi]

Could McNair coax Dungy out of retirement? I hope all of this talk turns out to be premature as I desperately want to see Kubiak and these Texans succeed, but another 8-8 means he should go.

[Fonz the Boss]

I want Chucky

[Roy P]

I want Chucky

I don't. Unless you think we should draft Tebow and run the Wildcat 75% of the time.

[Roy P]

What does Aggie or Texas have to do with anything? You may think he's fantastic, but I'll guarantee you what most fans will see is 'Marty Mornhinweg, ex-coach fired by one of the worst franchises ever'. He may turn out great, but fans are not going to like it and it will show at the gate. That's all I'm saying.

That was one of the selling points on deciding on Kubiak. He had a tie to the area. The same thought process would have had the Texans draft VY instead of Mario, by the way.

The "fans" will like having a winning team on the field. That will show at the gate.

[NBT]

I'm back to we need new leadership. Kubiak and his scheme is .500 ball.

I'm done with him, and you cannot sell me a Kubiak coached team next season.

I'm kinda thinking the same way. If McNair says he is tired of .500 seasons and means it, then we are in for a HC change. Who? I don't have any idea. I will say that is up to you young tyros. I do know that in the last several years Pgh went young and now have 2 SB's to show for it. Baltimore, Denver, KC, and several others have gone to young head coaches with some good experience and they seem to be the wave of the future. So, are there any more out there like that?

[Roy P]

I'm not real high on Philly. They have been above average for a decade and have never won anything.

Above average for a decade looks really nice from where I'm sitting.

[Roy P]

So, are there any more out there like that?

http://www.vikings.com/team/coaches/darrell-bevell/06889ea1-697a-4fe8-abe6-956773a7b83e

Darrel Bevell enters his 4th season as Offensive Coordinator of the Vikings in 2009.

When Brad Childress began building his Minnesota Vikings coaching staff he had certain qualities in mind for the men who would lead the team into the future. Childress wanted coaches who were good teachers, hard workers and dedicated to the task. Childress had seen all of those qualities years earlier in a gritty QB who led his 1993 Wisconsin Badger squad to the school’s 1st Big Ten title and Rose Bowl berth in 31 years.

http://www.neworleanssaints.com/Team/Coaches/People/Pete%20Carmichael%20Jr.aspx

Promoted to offensive coordinator for 2009 after working with the quarterbacks for the last three seasons, Pete Carmichael has been a key contributor in the planning and preparation of the Saints’ record-setting passing attack since 2006.

[Keith]

Above average for a decade looks really nice from where I'm sitting.
Isn't that what McNair bought into when he turned his team into South Denver?

NFL is not for long. Just sayin'. Maybe the Eagles system would prove to be better than the Broncos system. Depends on the person. Just look at the New England system. After Belichick, and before this initial run by McDaniels, guys from the Pats system haven't been locks for success.

Teams take on the personality of their head coach. So what personality do we want?

[coloradodude]

I'll tell you who I want and why...

JON "shut those kids up" GRUDEN

When he was with the Raiders, they went 8-8 his first two seasons. Then, 12-4 where they won the AFC West and went to the AFC Championship game and lost to Baltimore. As you recall, Baltimore won that SB.

The next season they went 10-6, won the division again, and then played the Patriots in the playoffs in a snowstorm. Remember the tuck rule by Tommy Brady? That game. Patriots won the SB a few weeks later.

Everybody says he's a loser because of Tampa after he won the SB. And they all say it was Dungy's team that won it. Well, who's team did he play in that SB? His old Raider team.

Tampa Bay: Had the Bucs not given those draft picks away to get Gruden they still would've had trouble because of impending salary cap issues which lasted through 2007. That's why Parcells turned the job down.


11 seasons, 5 Division Championships

[Roy P]

I'll tell you who I want and why...

JON "shut those kids up" GRUDEN

11 seasons, 5 Division Championships

Oh, I love Gruden. Would love to go to a bar and drink beer with him and listen to him talk about the Wildcat. Would go to practice and listen to him say, "are you out of your freakin' mind, are you outta your skull?" However, I don't want him running this team. He's gone from genius to crazy.

The players have to buy in to what the coach is preaching. No way in Hell, do our players pick up what he's preachin' now.

Gruden is a fascination of mine. I always want to hear what he says, which is why I'm glad he's on t.v. He reminds me of some of my Drill Instructors from Parris Island.

Right now, he's on a research and study session. If Shannahan gets hired by the Redskins, Cowboys, Bills, or whoever, it will be interesting to see if he hires Gruden to be the O.C. (assuming Kubiak or "lil Shan" isn't available).

[Roy P]

So what personality do we want?

Umm...Sean Payton has a job.

What is Jim Fassell doing these days?
Could we get Al Groh away from Virginia?

Anyone heard of Tim Murphy or Rick Minter at Cinci?

Maybe Todd Bowles of Miami would be sufficient.

[painekiller]

Kenny Anderson is the Steelers QB coach, remember him being the original WCO QB? Look it up, Walsh was his QB coach under HC Paul Brown. That is where the WCO started to take shape. It's based on the Paul Brown and Sid Gillman coaching tree.

[painekiller]

How about HC Bruce Coslet
OC Ken Anderson
QB coach Turk Schonert
OL Bruce Matthews

Defense
DC Pepper Johnson


I want the offense to attach attach attach, and I want the defense to confuse confuse confuse

[chuck]

What is Jim Fassell doing these days?

http://www.ufl-football.com/teams/las_vegas_locomotives/coaches

[nunusguy]

What about Greg Williams ? Atleast we might finally have a defense with him in charge.

[Mike]

Umm...Sean Payton has a job.

What is Jim Fassell doing these days?
Could we get Al Groh away from Virginia?

Anyone heard of Tim Murphy or Rick Minter at Cinci?

Maybe Todd Bowles of Miami would be sufficient.

The Virginia team that gets beat by William and Mary? Groh was hot at one point, but I do not think his star is very bright at this time.

[popanot]

Unfortunately the guy I wanted them to hire after Capers is not willing to leave his college coaching gig. That person would be none other than, Kirk Ferentz. IMO, he runs the closest thing to a pro-style offense and defense in college football and I think he and his system would translate well to the NFL.

[Roy P]

http://www.ufl-football.com/teams/las_vegas_locomotives/coaches

I like it. Give me Fassell. I'm putting all my chips in the middle of the table...
His team beat the crap out of the California Redwoods. He did that with J.P. Losman at QB, now that's coaching.



http://www.ufl-football.com/content/downloads/UFL_CA_LV_0/UFL_CA_LV.pdf

[chuck]

I like it. Give me Fassell. I'm putting all my chips in the middle of the table...
His team beat the crap out of the California Redwoods. He did that with J.P. Losman at QB, now that's coaching.
http://www.ufl-football.com/content/downloads/UFL_CA_LV_0/UFL_CA_LV.pdf

I was actually in Las Vegas the day of the game but too stupid to realize that it was happening.

[Roy P]

I'll tell you who I want and why...

JON "shut those kids up" GRUDEN



Well, according to 610 this afternoon, Gruden is not only a name to replace Kubiak being bantered about, but also the guy being talked about to replace Jim Zorn in D.C.

[Warren]

Unfortunately the guy I wanted them to hire after Capers is not willing to leave his college coaching gig. That person would be none other than, Kirk Ferentz. IMO, he runs the closest thing to a pro-style offense and defense in college football and I think he and his system would translate well to the NFL.Ferentz was at or near the top of my list too back then -- I liked the ability to spot and/or develop talent he showed with unheralded recruits like Bob Sanders, Dallas Clark, Chad Greenway, and Robert Gallery, his NFL and OL background, and his Belichick coaching tree pedigree (although as Keith points out, that hasn't exactly been an indicator of success upon further review). Iowa looked like it was slipping back into mediocrity since then but has turned that around so far this year. When Scott Pioli was talking to the Browns and then eventually became the Chiefs' GM it was rumored that Ferentz would be joining him, and Iowa extended his contract through 2015.

[Warren]

What about Greg Williams ? Atleast we might finally have a defense with him in charge.He's intriguing to me. I've read some quotes from people close to the Bills who said his failed tenure in Buffalo was more a result personnel issues (particularly QB) than coaching. As defensive coordinator in Washington he generally got good results but there were stories about him being an arrogant jerk who lost many of his players by disrepecting them, above and beyond just coaching them hard. Still, other players have had nothing but good things to say about him and he's obviously getting it done in New Orleans. FWIW, he's also a former Oiler and UH graduate assistant.

[Nconroe]

Texans chick has some interesting info about being a young NFL team at her blog. And on the experience of DC's.

http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2009/10/more_on_the_houston_texans_as.html

one might think Texans are just too young to be successful at the moment.

[barrett]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-bills-fanbillboard&prov=ap&type=lgns

An idea for if things get much worse. I'd say if we drop 3 games under .500.

[popanot]

I tell you, even though they lost, I was pretty impressed with Brian Schottenheimer Monday night. He seems to have developed a good scheme and game plan even with a rookie QB. I know they have a good OL and RBs (better than ours, at least), but he calls a good game and seems to have a really good sideline demeanor. You could tell Ryan has given him full control of the offense. Can't really question his pedigree either... I'd certainly put him on the interview list if I'm McNair and looking next year.

[barrett]

Are you thinking Schottenheimer as a head coach?

The Jets are 24th in offense and 20th in scoring. Not to mention he has a total of 5 games experience as a coordinator. He would challenge Raheem Morris for least qualified NFL head coach. He's actually far less qualified than Shanahan, who many on this board think is not qualified to be the OC.

I know that sometimes you hit it out of the park with a young guy but far more often you don't. I think I'd open the wallet and pay for someone with a track record long enough to tell me what I am getting. Especially since so many franchises are trying to save money by not paying big named coaches. It means that a team that is willing to can get it done. Why not make a huge offer to Bill Cowher or Tony Dungy?

Why try to catch lightning in a bottle and risk getting burned when you can just open your wallet and buy the same lightning with a gaurantee.

[popanot]

Of course I'd prefer they hire a big-name coach and have stated such in this very thread. I think Holmgren or Gruden would be the most likely big-name coaches that would be willing to come to Houston that would be within McNair's price range. I just don't think it will happen. Certainly not Cowher or Shanahan who will probably have much better choices of location and money elsewhere. You really think McNair is going to outbid Dallas, Washington, Oakland or possibly Carolina (where Cowher lives)? I don't. I'm not even including Dungy because I think he's done coaching.

As for Schottenheimer, I'm throwing his name out there because he's a young assistant with NFL experience and someone who I can see being a potential HC candidate that would interest McNair. Schottenheimer was considered for the HC job in Miami when Saban left and was also a candidate for the Jets HC job before they hired Ryan, so his name is out there amoung HC candidates. I don't think it's all that crazy to have his name in the mix. I can certainly see him being a hot candidate if the Jets make the playoffs with a rookie QB.

EDIT: BTW, I think he's been OC for more than 5 games and I'm pretty sure has a little more experience than Raheem Morris... Maybe he doesn't have the one of best offenses in the league, but they haven't been all that bad and they can play both finesse and smash-mouth. That's something that's sorely lacking at Reliant.

[Roy P]

Texans chick has some interesting info.

http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2009/10/more_on_the_houston_texans_as.html
.

"Though I mentioned this in the comments, I think it is worth discussing the other teams that have as little average age as the Texans (age 26 yo average):

Hou 2-3
Phi 3-1"

The one thing that jumped out at me was the fact that the Eagles were the only "young" team with a winning record.

[painekiller]

Are you thinking Schottenheimer as a head coach?

The Jets are 24th in offense and 20th in scoring. Not to mention he has a total of 5 games experience as a coordinator. He would challenge Raheem Morris for least qualified NFL head coach. He's actually far less qualified than Shanahan, who many on this board think is not qualified to be the OC.



He has a rookie QB, and almost no WRs until this past week. Also with Ryans scheme on defense the offense is expected to not loose games more so than win them.

As for experience, his resume is sound, and his pedigree is also tops.

[Roy P]

Okay, instead of Fassell I want Jeff Davidson. Just a couple of tidbits on the current Carolina O.C. He has coached the Saints, Patriots, and Browns before his current gig. I've posted some of my thoughts on how we could tailor an offense around our multiple TEs to create mismatches, and it appears he is of a like mind.

http://www.kffl.com/player/11532/nfl

Browns | New offense more tight end-friendly
Fri, 03 Nov 2006 08:50:17 -0800

The Cleveland Plain Dealer reports one of the most noticeable changes in the Cleveland Browns offense under new offensive coordinator Jeff Davidson has been the use of three tight ends.


http://www.panthers.com/team/coaches/jeff-davidson/6e7cfaff-c328-4e64-b08c-d3248bea5e13

Carolina's offensive accomplishments in 2008 included team records of 2,437 rushing yards, 30 rushing touchdowns, 118 rushing first downs and 5.96 yards average gain per play and gaining at least 400 yards in six games. Additionally, the Panthers amassed 5,595 yards, tallied 414 points and scored 47 touchdowns, all of which rank as the second-highest totals in team history.

With the Patriots, he contributed to five playoff appearances, four division titles, three conference championships and three Super Bowl wins as the tight ends/assistant offensive line coach from 1997-2004.

Meanwhile, New England's tight ends, under Davidson's tutelage, accounted for 11 touchdowns and nine pass plays of 20 yards or more.

[nunusguy]

If the season bombs and McNair has to can Kubiak, he's got to make a splash in the offseason to avoid blackouts in 2010 and one of the few ways to do that is to hire a well-known HC with a successful resume, not an obscure Coordinator no matter how much his potential.

[Roy P]

That's kind of funny considering how the Broncos canned their big name Super-Bowl winning Head Coach and hired some Coordinator with potential. That dude even ran off their Pro-Bowl QB in the process. Let's ask Colorado Dude if he can see the Broncos on t.v. on Sundays or if they are blacked out. If said this before, but I guess I'll have to repeat myself, Winning is what puts asses in the seats.

[barrett]

He has a rookie QB, and almost no WRs until this past week. Also with Ryans scheme on defense the offense is expected to not loose games more so than win them.

As for experience, his resume is sound, and his pedigree is also tops.

I'm not blaming him for a mediocre offense with mediocre weapons. But I am also not rewarding him for it.

He has been a QB coach until this year and has been the OC of a mediocre offense for 5 games. Maybe he is lightning in the bottle but the cost is 2-3 wasted years if we are wrong. Why chance it when money can buy you a sure thing.

[painekiller]

I'm not blaming him for a mediocre offense with mediocre weapons. But I am also not rewarding him for it.

He has been a QB coach until this year and has been the OC of a mediocre offense for 5 games. Maybe he is lightning in the bottle but the cost is 2-3 wasted years if we are wrong. Why chance it when money can buy you a sure thing.

From the jets.comBrian Schottenheimer was retained by Rex Ryan as offensive coordinator after one of the best offensive seasons in franchise history. He was originally named the Jets’ coordinator on Jan. 30, 2006, coming to the team after serving as quarterbacks coach for the San Diego Chargers for four seasons (2002-05). Schottenheimer’s offensive scheme features multiple sets and flexibility as well as a no-huddle component.

He has been the OC for 2007, 2008 and now 2009. He was the one calling the plays for Brett Farve. It was his offense, they were ninth in the league in scoring last season, And only 26th the season before when they were forced to played Clements. Now he is training his 4th QB in his system in 3 years, and they are in 1st place in their division.

[coloradodude]

That's kind of funny considering how the Broncos canned their big name Super-Bowl winning Head Coach and hired some Coordinator with potential. That dude even ran off their Pro-Bowl QB in the process. Let's ask Colorado Dude if he can see the Broncos on t.v. on Sundays or if they are blacked out. If said this before, but I guess I'll have to repeat myself, Winning is what puts asses in the seats.



ughh...it's true. Every Sunday they're on tv and there's not even a hint of the word "blackout".

[painekiller]

Why chance it when money can buy you a sure thing.

There are no sure things in coaching. Jimmy Johnson went to Miami and he did not equal his Dallas years.

Only a handful of HCs have won in more than one city. Parchells being one of those exceptions.

As Ken Loeffler said : “There are only two kinds of coaches — those who have been fired, and those who will be fired.”

[barrett]

There are no sure things in coaching. Jimmy Johnson went to Miami and he did not equal his Dallas years.

Only a handful of HCs have won in more than one city. Parchells being one of those exceptions.

As Ken Loeffler said : “There are only two kinds of coaches — those who have been fired, and those who will be fired.”

Very wise. But there is no denying that you have a far better idea what you're getting with Cowher/Dungy than with some young guy.

I see Roy is ready to annoint McDaniels as the answer in Denver. I will wait longer than 5 games. Either way like I said, it's a huge roll of the dice. Notre Dame, Cleveland, Jets, and Cleveland again have all hired New England coordinators with sterling resumes and bombed. Denver may have gotten the real deal. And they may not have.

Either way there are so many proven coaches unemployed right now and so few teams willing to pay in the economic climate, that anyone who opens the wallet can have one (if not their pick). If Bob McNair is willing to spend Billions but draws the line and goes cheap on the single most important thing to an NFL franchise, we can only hope to get lucky.

[NBT]

I know I will get hit on for saying this, but it needs to be said; if Kubiak had allowed Greg Davis to be hired as the new DC, instead of another of Kubiak's favorites, frank Bush, he could just run his offense, and let Greg Williams carry the defense, ala NOLA!! We would not be awash in mediocrity at this time of the season.

[Roy P]

Very wise. But there is no denying that you have a far better idea what you're getting with Cowher/Dungy than with some young guy.

I see Roy is ready to annoint McDaniels as the answer in Denver. I will wait longer than 5 games.

First, I will repeat the wise words: 'there's no such thing as a sure thing' because it is true.

Just because Cowher and Dungy have had success, there's no guarantee that their good fortune would be a certainty here. There have been SuperBowl winning coaches who have not repeated that accomplishment with new teams. Remember Dan Reeves in Atlanta after winning in Denver? Holmgren didn't win the Big Game in Seattle. Dick Vermeil couldn't get much done in K.C. Joe Gibbs couldn't rekindle the magic in D.C. Ditka was good enough in Chicago, but not New Orleans. Even as much as I respect Parcells, his only SuperBowl came when he was with the Giants, none with the Cowboys.

While I'm not going to annoint McDaniels, nobody is looking for his replacement at this point in the season. There have been plenty of young no-names who made names for themselves. John Madden and Mike Tomlin come to mind. So, hiring a new head coach is simply hit or miss.

Joe Walsh, Bill Cowher, Parcells, Gruden, Dungy and Belichick didn't have Super Bowl rings when they were hired by their original teams. In fact, Dungy and Belichick were fired as head coaches before another team took a chance.

There are innumerable reasons for a team's success, and a head coach is but one.

[painekiller]

I know I will get hit on for saying this, but it needs to be said; if Kubiak had allowed Greg Davis to be hired as the new DC, instead of another of Kubiak's favorites, frank Bush, he could just run his offense, and let Greg Williams carry the defense, ala NOLA!! We would not be awash in mediocrity at this time of the season.

You still Frank Bush Hating? The total defense is up to #20 in YPG, #24 against the rush, #19 against the pass.

I hate when guys do this, but I am going to any way. Take away 4 plays and this defense is in the top half of the NFL. Is this as good as New Orleans, no but they also where smart enough to sign a real Safety Darren Sharper who now has 5 INT and 12 passes defensed. Studly numbers.

We have one of the youngest teams in the NFL, our defense is lead by two 5th year guys. And now a rookie is our biggest playmaker. Bush is doing OK with these guys.

[Joshua]

You still Frank Bush Hating? The total defense is up to #20 in YPG, #24 against the rush, #19 against the pass.

I hate when guys do this, but I am going to any way. Take away 4 plays and this defense is in the top half of the NFL. Is this as good as New Orleans, no but they also where smart enough to sign a real Safety Darren Sharper who now has 5 INT and 12 passes defensed. Studly numbers.

We have one of the youngest teams in the NFL, our defense is lead by two 5th year guys. And now a rookie is our biggest playmaker. Bush is doing OK with these guys.

I would say Bush has made some progress these last couple weeks and the D looks much better. Cushing, in particular, has really made a huge impact. Not only is he putting up big numbers, he's making plays that actually impact the game. This is something we've lacked for years. As the Morlon Greenwood experience taught us, just piling up tackle numbers doesn't mean you're doing anything to help us win.

To play Devil's Advocate for a moment, I will point out that the other 2 teams whose defenses were just about as terrible as us last year were NOLA and Denver. Both brought in new coordinators this year and both came out of the gates balling and are now undefeated. It's great that our defense is improving, but the NFL season is too short to give away the first month trying to find your legs. Not being ready to go in September may ultimately cost us a chance at the playoffs.

[nunusguy]

We have one of the youngest teams in the NFL, our defense is lead by two 5th year guys. And now a rookie is our biggest playmaker. Bush is doing OK with these guys.

Actually 2 4th-year guys, but you're right PK, after some of those early gaffs involving the Titans Johnson and D-J for the Jags, Bush's D is looking much steadier.

[barrett]

I would say Bush has made some progress these last couple weeks and the D looks much better. Cushing, in particular, has really made a huge impact. Not only is he putting up big numbers, he's making plays that actually impact the game. This is something we've lacked for years. As the Morlon Greenwood experience taught us, just piling up tackle numbers doesn't mean you're doing anything to help us win.

To play Devil's Advocate for a moment, I will point out that the other 2 teams whose defenses were just about as terrible as us last year were NOLA and Denver. Both brought in new coordinators this year and both came out of the gates balling and are now undefeated. It's great that our defense is improving, but the NFL season is too short to give away the first month trying to find your legs. Not being ready to go in September may ultimately cost us a chance at the playoffs.

I think that had more to do with Rick Smith and Kubiak than Bush. Bush's defense would have looked a lot more ready to play in September with Dawkins or Sharper. Even someone at Bernard Pollard's level has made a difference. It is criminal that Smith and Kubiak thought we were fine at Safety entering the year.

[Joshua]

I think that had more to do with Rick Smith and Kubiak than Bush. Bush's defense would have looked a lot more ready to play in September with Dawkins or Sharper. Even someone at Bernard Pollard's level has made a difference. It is criminal that Smith and Kubiak thought we were fine at Safety entering the year.

Fair point. I also think losing Reeves, along with having a rusty Dunta, were also significant problems for the D early on. Having said that, there is no disputing that the D was simply clueless on many occasions to start the year (preseason and regular) and had an unacceptable amount of mental mistakes and missed assignments. This does fall on Bush, IMO.

[NBT]

You still Frank Bush Hating? The total defense is up to #20 in YPG, #24 against the rush, #19 against the pass.

I hate when guys do this, but I am going to any way. Take away 4 plays and this defense is in the top half of the NFL. Is this as good as New Orleans, no but they also where smart enough to sign a real Safety Darren Sharper who now has 5 INT and 12 passes defensed. Studly numbers.

We have one of the youngest teams in the NFL, our defense is lead by two 5th year guys. And now a rookie is our biggest playmaker. Bush is doing OK with these guys.

I don't hate Frank Bush, I just think Kubiak's insistance on hanging with is favorites is sometimes counterproductive. I was using NOLA and Grg Williams because I love the defenses he brings. To be fair to Bush, he seems to be getting the defense better prepared to play, especially now that Cushing is coming on like he is. Bush will have to have the defense on their "A" game again this weekend against Mike Singletary"s 49ers.

[Roy P]

I would say Bush has made some progress these last couple weeks and the D looks much better.

We played the Raiders and looked impressive. Then we allowed the Cards to score the most points they had all season, with most of it coming in the 1st half. I believe Bush saw what his players were able to digest and do best. Against the Bengals, we were able to contain Cedric Benson. By the 3rd quarter, the Bengals had given up on the run and were trying to catch up through the air.

I'm taking our progress with a grain of salt. The key in my mind was the addition of Bernard Pollard and playing more man coverage. Bush started having more confidence in blitzing Cushing and Ryans too. Amobi Okoye has been getting better penetration. If Mario were 100% healthy, I think we'd have more sacks and more turnovers. I'm somewhat dissapointed we didn't trade for Dorsey, but I don't know what the asking price was.

[NBT]

I like the blitzing too, but I am dissappointed that Mario hasn't gotten anymore sacks than he has.

[painekiller]

In light of resent articles, what do you think of this mixture?

GM - Floyd Reese - currently with the Pats


HC - Bill Cowher TV

OC - Kyle Shanahan, IMO Kyle want to be his own man, not daddy's son.
DC - Jim Haslett current HC of Florida Tuskers of UFL

[barrett]

Looks good, but if you get a guy like Cowher (which I'd love), then he is going to want to pick his own guys at the coordinator spots and maybe even GM.

[bckey]

If we can pay a player like Dunta Robinson 10 million a year then we can surely pay a coach like Cowher 10 million a year.

[painekiller]

Looks good, but if you get a guy like Cowher (which I'd love), then he is going to want to pick his own guys at the coordinator spots and maybe even GM.

Haslett used to work with Cowher. Most of the OC guys Cowher worked with are now HCs or secure in their position types.

[edit] Coaching tree

Assistant coaches under Bill Cowher that became Head Coaches in the NFL:

Dom Capers (Carolina Panthers, Houston Texans, and Green Bay Packers)
Chan Gailey (Dallas Cowboys) KC OC
Jim Haslett (New Orleans Saints/St. Louis Rams)
Mike Mularkey (Buffalo Bills) Atlanta Falcons OC
Ken Whisenhunt (Arizona Cardinals)
Dick LeBeau (Cincinnati Bengals)
Marvin Lewis (Cincinnati Bengals)



I also thought about Russ Grimm Asst HC Arizona, and one of Cowher's top guys. And I also thought about Brian Schottenheimer, Bill's former boss' son.

[kravix]

My belief is that Kubiak needs only one more win this season to hold his job.

Rick Smith is very unlikely to get canned along with Kubiak, if it happens.

If a HC change were to occur, unless it is a Cowher or Shanahan, we will definatley lose AJ.

Throwing around the names of 3-4 def minded coaches could mean another 2-3 years of bad def, and our def is just now showing some real signs of life.

Even if Kubes finishes 6-10 this year gimme one more year to see what shakes out. The OC/DC changes we have endured are not very congruent to a stable team.

Everyone is overreacting IMO. Even the best teams and coaches lose games. I would rather have a secure FO and team than another few years of turmoil. For every Sean Peyton there are 5 coaches that dont make it. NO would not be the same team without Brees at all, NE got lucky that a 7th round pick that had little exp turned into a star, and there has only been one and will only ever be one Peyton Manning. The point is most teams take time to build and very little time to destroy.

Cowher is a special coach, there are not 4-5 coaches like him sitting one the waiting list every year waiting to be picked up as the HC for some NFL team. Take the McDonalds feed me now, fast, and screw the consequences attitude, but me I will take the steady improvement route.

You cannot take a teams total win loss record and apply it towards the outcome of a game. The saying "any given Sunday" is real. Comparing the W/L records of teams without comparing the matchups, momentum, and cirumstances is like comparing the Superbowl winning Raiders to the shell of a team they are now.

[Keith]

In light of resent articles, what do you think of this mixture?

HC - Bill Cowher


By recent articles, I assume one of them might be the blog from Jason La Canfora at the NFL Network.

One source close to Cowher believes the compensation could reach the $10 million-per-season range based on early indications. ...

Cowher, who resides in North Carolina, is largely expected to be wooed by the Panthers should they opt not to bring back John Fox for the final season on his deal. The Texans and Bears would excite Cowher as well, according to a source, should they opt to make a move.

Two sources close to Cowher believe he is more ready now than at any time since retiring after the 2006 season to return to coaching, but he will remain very selective about his next move. ...


http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/11/23/bills-contact-cowher-about-head-coaching-job/

[barrett]

I always figured that the big name guys would be interested in this job and the Cowher article confirms it.

Think about it. Lots of reasons why a coach would be interested.

1. As a head coach what better situation to come into then a very talented team that has underachieved. You don't have to work a miracle to go 10-6 or 11-5 with this bunch next year (they wouldn't have needed one this year, just a kicker and the ability to score on 1st and 1 and we are sitting at 9-1). So you are likely to come out looking good when the team sees the inevitable bump in win total.

2. For a defensive coach especially it is appealing because if you can get a little defensive improvement (which every Defensive coach thinks they can), the offense is already largely in place.

3. You are working for an owner who has been EXTREMELY patient with his first two coaches. You don't have to fear the quick hook. He is also the opposite of meddlesome like you'd have to deal with in Dallas.

4. You are in a manageable cap situation with no missing draft picks in the future.

5. The owner will spend to the max.

6. You get great fan support with a gauranteed sellout every week, but without the negativity and willingness to turn on you that you find in most football towns.

7. Softball local media that will never go after you as long as you give them there "insider" morsels.

Honestly, I don't know of a job that will be open that would be easier to succeed in then this one. If McNair will pony up, we should have our pick of coaches.

[nunusguy]

I always figured that the big name guys would be interested in this job and the Cowher article confirms it.

Think about it. Lots of reasons why a coach would be interested.

1. As a head coach what better situation to come into then a very talented team that has underachieved. You don't have to work a miracle to go 10-6 or 11-5 with this bunch next year (they wouldn't have needed one this year, just a kicker and the ability to score on 1st and 1 and we are sitting at 9-1). So you are likely to come out looking good when the team sees the inevitable bump in win total.

2. For a defensive coach especially it is appealing because if you can get a little defensive improvement (which every Defensive coach thinks they can), the offense is already largely in place.

3. You are working for an owner who has been EXTREMELY patient with his first two coaches. You don't have to fear the quick hook. He is also the opposite of meddlesome like you'd have to deal with in Dallas.

4. You are in a manageable cap situation with no missing draft picks in the future.

5. The owner will spend to the max.

6. You get great fan support with a gauranteed sellout every week, but without the negativity and willingness to turn on you that you find in most football towns.

7. Softball local media that will never go after you as long as you give them there "insider" morsels.

Honestly, I don't know of a job that will be open that would be easier to succeed in then this one. If McNair will pony up, we should have our pick of coaches.

All very valid points but I think it would be disingenuous to state the positives of being a HC in Houston without recognizing any downside.
(1) Houston remains in the hinterlands of NFL franchises. Arguably a big-name coach like Cowher could change that, but even a Bill Parcells said the limelight the Cowboys offered him was a reason to take the job. Houston offers none of that kind of visibility.
(2) Lots of people just don't like the weather here. I know because I don't like the weather here for 'bout 6 months of the year, every year. And being an NFL HC is a 12-month a year job, you live there. It's a reality
whether one likes it or not or is willing to admit it. On the other hand some people like the heat & humidity of the places in the Sun Belt like Houston, Miami, & Tampa. A guy like Cowher can pick and choose when and where he works, but I'm thinkin he's a 4-seasons kinda guy ?
(3) The Texans are stuck in one of the toughest divisions in the NFL and it ain't easy getting by the competition to win the division crown, the least difficult way to going deep into the playoffs. And say what you want about Peytons age, but I'm thinkin he's gonna play forever.

[Dennis2112]

Yeah but what a story for the HOF if Cowher could lead the Texans out of the Hintherlands of the NFL into a legit SB contender?

Seems that would be appealing for a person of Cowher's ego and stature.

[TheMatrix31]

I just feel like Cowher will give this team TESTICLES. At this point, that's what I want.

[painekiller]

I just feel like Cowher will give this team TESTICLES. At this point, that's what I want.

My wise list is like this

Bill Cowher
Jeff Fisher if he is fired
Mike Holmgren
Steve Mariucci
Marty Schottenheimer
Greg Williams
Jim Fassel
Mike Mularkey
Mike Heimerdinger
Jim Harbaugh
Cam Cameron
Ron Meeks
Mike Tice
Kevin Gilbride


Dream Teams?

HC Bill Cowher
Asst HC / OC Mike Mularkey
DC Jim Haslett


or

HC Mike Holmgren
OC Jim Zorn
DC Ted Cottrell


3-4 defense

Smith - Hampton FA signing - Williams
Cushing - Ryans-Diles -Barwin

[TheMatrix31]

I'll pass on Holmgren...don't really know why though. Maybe I'm underestimating him.

And I definitely don't want Schottenheimer. That guy is an epic fail in the playoffs. Yes, I know we've never been, but I don't want our next perpetual "cycle" to be "get in the playoffs and lose every time". Marty Ball is brutal.

[Fonz the Boss]

We have the players... all we need now is an elite coaching staff. I want Bill Cowher here.

[TexanJedi]

Weird suggestion, but how about Shanahan? Would Gary accept a demotion to offensive coordinator/ Asst. Head Coach? It gives us a coach who has been to the promise land, with Elway I know, but it keeps the Texans from totally retooling. There are questions about would Mike come here after getting rid of Gary which is why I think it needs to be a mutual deal between Gary, Mike, and Bob McNair. I have never heard of such a thing, but who knows it could work. Heck, in a few years Mike could turn the reigns back over to an older, wiser Kubiak who would have a new perspective on being a head coach.

Blast away. ;)

[mussop]

Weird suggestion, but how about Shanahan? Would Gary accept a demotion to offensive coordinator/ Asst. Head Coach? It gives us a coach who has been to the promise land, with Elway I know, but it keeps the Texans from totally retooling. There are questions about would Mike come here after getting rid of Gary which is why I think it needs to be a mutual deal between Gary, Mike, and Bob McNair. I have never heard of such a thing, but who knows it could work. Heck, in a few years Mike could turn the reigns back over to an older, wiser Kubiak who would have a new perspective on being a head coach.

Blast away. ;)

Actually I have thought about this alot and think its a viable option. If we cant get Cowher. JMO.

Mike is a good game manager and Kubiack was a good OC. If they could work together (and I dont see why not) It would be an improvement over the situation right now. I also beleive Kubiak will be a good head coach one day. Who knows a step back under his mentor for a couple of years might be what makes the light go on. There are several benefits to this and its not in anyway a step backwards.

[Mike]

Weird suggestion, but how about Shanahan? Would Gary accept a demotion to offensive coordinator/ Asst. Head Coach? It gives us a coach who has been to the promise land, with Elway I know, but it keeps the Texans from totally retooling. There are questions about would Mike come here after getting rid of Gary which is why I think it needs to be a mutual deal between Gary, Mike, and Bob McNair. I have never heard of such a thing, but who knows it could work. Heck, in a few years Mike could turn the reigns back over to an older, wiser Kubiak who would have a new perspective on being a head coach.

Blast away. ;)

I don't think that would sit well with Gary. I know that would not sit well if that happened to me. Shanny was a disaster his last few years in Denver and made alot of bad draft decisions.

[TexanJedi]

I don't think that would sit well with Gary. I know that would not sit well if that happened to me. Shanny was a disaster his last few years in Denver and made alot of bad draft decisions.

But that's why we keep Rick Smith in charge of personnel.

2008- Ryan Clady and Eddie Royal in the 1st and 2nd.
2007- Jarvis Moss seems to be a bust.
2006- Culter, Scheffler, Marshall, and Dumervil with the first four picks rivals our '06 draft.
2005- Darrent Williams (R.I.P.) was becoming a good corner, not to mention the awesome Chris Myers.
2004- DJ Williams at linebacker.
2000-2003 had some misses. Foster ('03) was traded to Detroit for Dre Bly along with Tatum Bell (picked in '04). Ashley Lelie in the '02 draft, but they did pick Portis in round 2.

I am not sure who was controlling every personnel decision during that time but it seems that talent was not an issue by the end of his tenure. He was a little stubborn about making defensive changes but I can't see him coming here and blowing things up on that side of the ball as we have invested more on defense than Denver did. Yes there were the Maurice Clarett head scratchers from time to time but every team will make missteps. If Gary and Mike accept I think it could work for us.

I like Cowher, though my first choice would always be Tony Dungy but he will not come back to coaching I think, but would we have a small step back during the transistion as he changes the team? Now if you can guarantee me that is what it will take to make this team a Super Bowl contender, then great, let's take our medicine and do it, but of course there are no such guarantees.

I think one off season of focusing on mainly fixing the running game to protect leads and open up the play action passing game even more and we are in playoffs, meaning getting a big back (Gerhart, Dwyer or the like) and a couple of interior linemen or a tackle and slide one of our current tackles inside. I want a nasty running attack that would take pressure off of Schaub, not have issues on short yardage, and keep our defense on the sidelines.

This team is headed in the right direction talent wise so I am not convinced many personnel changes are the answer and I think Cowher might bring that as his system will be totally different I presume, maybe he works with what we have but I have my doubts. I guess my concern is more about learning a new system as we do have good talent already and that would surely be something that attracts Cowher, or any coach for that matter.

[chuck]

There is no way in hell Kubiak would accept a demotion from his current team. That is unheard of and he would become the laughingstock of the league. More so than he already is, I mean.

[Mike]

Holmgren or Cowher would want full control IMO. Shanny rode Elway and Holmgren did it in two places with different QB's, same as Gruden.

Gruden might be a fit with the offense that is already in place, and he ran a 4-3, same with Holmgren.

I think if Mr. McNair does make a change, it has to be a change that has some sizzle with the steak. I do think Kubes does have a chance to save his job though. I am not yet writing him off, he has done a good job getting us to this point. Is this his ceiling? I do not know. This team will be in close games down the stretch, that is what they do. If they do show improvement, and do close some of the better teams out (NE, MIA, JAX) then I think Gary can save his job.

Mr. McNair is in a tough spot. If he is thinking of making a change, he would almost have to go behind Gary's back if this team rallies. If he decides to make the change, he has to upgrade, and not get another coordinator with the way this fan base is. If the team goes to 9-7, Gary is safe IMO.

These last 5 games will be interesting.

[Keith]

There is no way in hell Kubiak would accept a demotion from his current team. That is unheard of and he would become the laughingstock of the league. More so than he already is, I mean.

Working as an assistant where you used to be head coach? That is wack.

Signed,
Dave Campo



...ok, yes, this proves chuck's point.

on a more serious note, the more likely scenario might be hiring daddy shan and keeping baby shan as his OC. not likely, just more likely than Kubiak accepting a demotion.

[Arky]

........Mr. McNair is in a tough spot. If he is thinking of making a change, he would almost have to go behind Gary's back if this team rallies. If he decides to make the change, he has to upgrade, and not get another coordinator with the way this fan base is. If the team goes to 9-7, Gary is safe IMO.

These last 5 games will be interesting.

I pretty much agree with all this. 9-7 and I think he stays. I am not anxious to replace the coach at this point.... I can't help feeling that one more draft and one more year of experience on this young team might get them over the hump. But if they play like knuckleheads down the stretch, Kubiak will probably be gone. They are so close....

McNair will most likely wait till the end of the season so any crying and whining now about the coach won't do any good. I think it may be evident at the end of the season which way he will go.

I predicted 9-7 preseason so it's still quite doable...

[barrett]

It is just so hard to change culture. This team is a team that doesn't win big football games. They find a way to lose far more than they find a way to win. Changing that identity and culture is very tough. I doubt it comes from within. These players have been what they are year after year now. Without a big change somewhere I doubt they ever shake it. Make a list of all of our best players and tell me which one has been a winner in the NFL at any point in there career.

So if none of our players, our head coach, either coordinator, or our GM has ever been a winner in their current role, than how do we change the culture by simply getting another year deeper into this identity.

To me the most likely place for that change to take place is a new head coach. And honestly we need one who is either a big enough personality or a proven enough winner to erase the culture of mediocrity around here. But if Kubiak stays does anyone really believe we are contenders next year for a superbowl? The best we can hope for with him is enough talent that we go 11-5 even after giving away 3-4 games next year.

It is clearly time for a change unless our goal is to hit the high end of mediocre.

[chuck]

It is just so hard to change culture. This team is a team that doesn't win big football games. They find a way to lose far more than they find a way to win. Changing that identity and culture is very tough. I doubt it comes from within. These players have been what they are year after year now. Without a big change somewhere I doubt they ever shake it. Make a list of all of our best players and tell me which one has been a winner in the NFL at any point in there career.

So if none of our players, our head coach, either coordinator, or our GM has ever been a winner in their current role, than how do we change the culture by simply getting another year deeper into this identity.

To me the most likely place for that change to take place is a new head coach. And honestly we need one who is either a big enough personality or a proven enough winner to erase the culture of mediocrity around here. But if Kubiak stays does anyone really believe we are contenders next year for a superbowl? The best we can hope for with him is enough talent that we go 11-5 even after giving away 3-4 games next year.

It is clearly time for a change unless our goal is to hit the high end of mediocre.

Very well put.

[nunusguy]

McNair clearly wants to keep Kubiak and not go thru the drama, the whole transition thing again. And I suspect he also likes Kubiak personally. But Kubiak may not give him the option to keep him in the end if things do really tank from here on out.
And I can't help but think this season set up real well and Kubiak just didn't
take advantage of it, starting with the 3 homes games in September and Kubiak not even having the team ready to play the season opener in Reliant vs the Jets.
Then he had the easy NFC West (next year its the NFC East !) with both of that divisions west coast teams playing here instead of us having to travel
west with the big time difference and all.
And the injury situation wasn't that bad really. OK we lost our guards and OD,
but Schaub and AJ have both been healthy all year as has the defense for the
most part.

[TheMatrix31]

McNair clearly wants to keep Kubiak and not go thru the drama, the whole transition thing again. And I suspect he also likes Kubiak personally. But Kubiak may not give him the option to keep him in the end if things do really tank from here on out.
And I can't help but think this season set up real well and Kubiak just didn't
take advantage of it, starting with the 3 homes games in September and Kubiak not even having the team ready to play the season opener in Reliant vs the Jets.
Then he had the easy NFC West (next year its the NFC East !) with both of that divisions west coast teams playing here instead of us having to travel
west with the big time difference and all.
And the injury situation wasn't that bad really. OK we lost our guards and OD,
but Schaub and AJ have both been healthy all year as has the defense for the
most part.

Your assessment is generally fine, but those injuries ARE awful. Owen Daniels is Schaub's big-time security blanket. We had no idea what to do on third-and-manageable decisions. OL injury is killer too because it destroyed whatever run game we "had'.

[kRocket]

..... But if Kubiak stays does anyone really believe we are contenders next year for a superbowl? The best we can hope for with him is enough talent that we go 11-5 even after giving away 3-4 games next year.

It is clearly time for a change unless our goal is to hit the high end of mediocre.

I loved what you said, but I think the chances of going to those levels under any conditions are very remote. First and foremost, we don't have a "We are going to win this game" quarterback. Mr Schaub gives good stats but we do need a QB that refuses to lose! I don't know if a coach can fix that, I think you are just born with it.

[Joshua]

I loved what you said, but I think the chances of going to those levels under any conditions are very remote. First and foremost, we don't have a "We are going to win this game" quarterback. Mr Schaub gives good stats but we do need a QB that refuses to lose! I don't know if a coach can fix that, I think you are just born with it.

Here are Schaub's situational stats for this year -

http://www.nfl.com/players/mattschaub/situationalstats?id=SCH085186&season=2009

While his overall numbers have been good, his numbers in crunchtime are somewhat worrisome. For instance, while his overall rating is a very respectable 97.7, check out this breakdown -

First half - 102.1
Second half - 93.3
Last 2 minutes of half - 78.9

With regard to point situations, his two worst ratings are when the Texans are either tied or leading by 1-8 points.

Finally, his worst quarter is the 4th quarter (83.1) and this drops even further in the 4th quarter of close games (within 7 points) to 76.7.

In short, these numbers seem to support my growing opinion that he plays his worst when the game is on the line (while it's pure speculation, his body language also suggests to me that he doesn't terribly enjoy playing in close, physical football games). I honestly don't know if rising to the occasion and getting better at crunch time is something one can learn or whether it is something that's just in you.

[kRocket]

.......In short, these numbers seem to support my growing opinion that he plays his worst when the game is on the line (while it's pure speculation, his body language also suggests to me that he doesn't terribly enjoy playing in close, physical football games). I honestly don't know if rising to the occasion and getting better at crunch time is something one can learn or whether it is something that's just in you.

Props for providing stats to backup to what was just my observation. Others on this board point to his QB rating and say what a good boy he is and a top 5 quarterback. I don't think so and IMO he never will be.

[barrett]

I think there are a precious few QBs who really raise there team and are most responsible for their winning (Brady, Brees, Manning). Outside of those 3, I think you have a dozen or so guys who are situationally good (meaning they are good in the right spot), and a bunch of guys who are just not very good. You can win on any level with those situationally good guys if everything else is in line. Schaub is clearly one of those guys. We can win with him.

But it is a clear problem that not one key guy on our team (including Schaub) has won in this league. That is the biggest reason why I think we need a new coach. If your team is full of guys who have never been there, then you better have a coach who has not only been there, but who can make these guys believe in it.

[Fonz the Boss]

In short, these numbers seem to support my growing opinion that he plays his worst when the game is on the line (while it's pure speculation, his body language also suggests to me that he doesn't terribly enjoy playing in close, physical football games). I honestly don't know if rising to the occasion and getting better at crunch time is something one can learn or whether it is something that's just in you.

Ive seen only one game where the team didnt fold on a close game.... That was the road win against the Tennesse Titans. I thought that was a different Texans team. I saw intensity that i hadnt seen from this team before.

[Big Texas]

I think there are a precious few QBs who really raise there team and are most responsible for their winning (Brady, Brees, Manning). Outside of those 3, I think you have a dozen or so guys who are situationally good (meaning they are good in the right spot), and a bunch of guys who are just not very good. You can win on any level with those situationally good guys if everything else is in line. Schaub is clearly one of those guys. We can win with him.

But it is a clear problem that not one key guy on our team (including Schaub) has won in this league. That is the biggest reason why I think we need a new coach. If your team is full of guys who have never been there, then you better have a coach who has not only been there, but who can make these guys believe in it.

Was E.Wilson on any of those Superbowl teams for the Pats? As a matter of fact he was on two of them 04'-05'. Not to mention AVERAGE JOE "Antoine Smith". If Cato June would've stuck around (who incidentally is with the Bears.) there would be another. I agree, definitely not enough.

I would even venture to ask how many draft picks come from winning programs? Maybe I should check that out. I wonder if that has anything to do with Andre Johnson and Brian Cushing's never quit mentalities. Was Alabama good when Demeco was there? I watch, but I am not a die hard college guy.

[nunusguy]

Bill Parcells was fond of saying "you are what your record says you are".
With that in mind, Kubiak/Texans are currently in the AFC South celler (tied with the Titans) with a record of 5-6 and they have a 1-4 record
within the South, worst in the division.

[painekiller]

Was Alabama good when Demeco was there? I watch, but I am not a die hard college guy.

No. He was gone before Saban was hired. He was coached by Franchione and David Shula.

[nunusguy]

DeMeco went on to become the SEC's Defensive Player of the Year for his performance in 2005. Later on, Ryans attributed much of his college success to his defensive coordinator at Alabama, Joe Kines. He was named the 2006 Cotton Bowl defensive MVP in their 13-10 win over Texas Tech.
http://www.bhamwiki.com/w/DeMeco_Ryans
*******************************************
Looks like Ryans and his team were good enough for him to be named the defensive player of the year in the countrys best football conference and the MVP in his teams victory in the Cotton Bowl when he was playing in college.

[Big Texas]

It just seemed to me like Cushing immediately came in with a winner's mentality. If he could throw the ball he would be out there. Of course he made a few rookie mistakes (not many) but he drive and desire has been unparalleled. The only two people that I have seen with that consistent drive have been Andre and Demeco. I was just curious as to whether that could be attributed to their college programs success and prestige.

We need some players to come in here and rub off a winning mentality, instead of us rubbing off a losing mentality on everyone we get.

I wanna see a fire in Barwin's eyes. I want Quin to accept nothing less than a big hit or an interception; no arm tackle drag downs. I think Okam could be the future of this team if he had a drive; an intensity.

All of that boils down to coaching and motivation, of which we have neither.

[painekiller]

DeMeco went on to become the SEC's Defensive Player of the Year for his performance in 2005. Later on, Ryans attributed much of his college success to his defensive coordinator at Alabama, Joe Kines. He was named the 2006 Cotton Bowl defensive MVP in their 13-10 win over Texas Tech.
http://www.bhamwiki.com/w/DeMeco_Ryans
*******************************************
Looks like Ryans and his team were good enough for him to be named the defensive player of the year in the countrys best football conference and the MVP in his teams victory in the Cotton Bowl when he was playing in college.

I did not say he wasn't great, I said his teams where considered average.

Demeco broke a dry spell at Bama when he became Bama's only All American in 6 years.

Shula went 10-2 in 2005, but his other years he was 4-9, 6-6, and 6-7.

Saban was brought in to change the atmosphere, and he has.

[TexanJedi]

I did not say he wasn't great, I said his teams where considered average.

Demeco broke a dry spell at Bama when he became Bama's only All American in 6 years.

Shula went 10-2 in 2005, but his other years he was 4-9, 6-6, and 6-7.

Saban was brought in to change the atmosphere, and he has.

Saban going to Bama and the change that followed could be something like the Texans might get with the right coach and change of culture. Shula was a very good recruiter (almost got Tebow, many of these current Bama players are his) and had a good offensive mind. But he was not a good game manager and adjustment maker. He took over an organization in shambles after Franchione left for A&M and mired in NCAA penalties. He took a bad team and made them competitive and respectable. Saban took them to the next level. Saban brought a sense of discipline and was a true head coach, not to mention even better recruiter. Cowher might be analogous to Saban going to Bama- a tough defensive minded coach who's reputation precedes him. Whatever the Texans (McNair) do it must be the right move.

[sinnister]

So if none of our players, our head coach, either coordinator, or our GM has ever been a winner in their current role, than how do we change the culture by simply getting another year deeper into this identity.


This is a great post. I think we haven't done a good job of bringing in Veteran players who have a little left to give, and who know what winning is like. If you look at the Saints secondary, it has always been very poor. This year they added Malcolm Jenkins, but they also go out and bring in Sharper, McKenzie, McCallister, etc. Sharper has been huge for them. I didnt understand why we didn't pursue Terry Holt, Sharper, and several other vets who would help change the atmosphere. Next year, we need to bring in veteran winners who are free agents to help the young guys and change the atmosphere of the team.

[Fonz the Boss]

Well we did get Ahman Green and that didn't change our identity hahaha

[NBT]

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Rick Smith has done a good job, bringing in a lot of sorely needed players on defense lately. I do agree Kube has finally shown he is out of his element and needs to go. If Bill Cower can be enticed to be the HC, that would be fine with me.