Duane Brown's replacement?

[Roy P]

I know we spent a 1st round pick, but did Duane Brown calm us? Want to guess how many sacks he was credited for giving up? He tied for last in the NFL with 11.5, oh yeah, he had Ephraim Salaam spelling him every other series so he wouldn't get tired and run down.

Am I suggesting that we trade up for Mike Oher? No, while I would love to see him at #15. Can the Texans "save face" and not spend their 1st round pick on an OT, but still get somebody to compete? I'm speculating, yes they could.

Both Troy Kopog - Tulane and William Beatty - Connecticut have some experience of blocking for a successful running game (Mike Forte and Donald Brown, respectively). They also have the agility to play in the ZBS of Gibbs.

One other option is the possibility of Jason Smith - Baylor at #15. I'm not saying that would necessarily be the smartest move, but depending upon who is available, could be the Texans' move.

Just thought I'd start a little conversation that I haven't seen here recently.

[barrett]

I agree that Brown is not there yet, but my concern is what to do with him if we make this pick. Many LTs fail because they are not athletic enough so you move them over and they are good RTs. But with Brown, he is not that physical or strong and I'm not sure he is a RT. Nor am I sure a guy lacking a physical nature fits on the interior. Not to mention position switches never help with development.

Honestly Brown seems like a guy with one position so I guess we hope the flashes he showed are signs of good things to come.

[Bigtinylittle]

Since the question is what the Texans WILL do and not what they SHOULD do, here is my answer: The Texans, in my opinion, think Brown had an excellent rookie season as a run blocker and greatly improved in the second half as a pass blocker. I think they are counting on his pass blocking improving even more next year. I think they still believe they were correct in their pre-draft evaluation of his ability and think he just needs more work, more polish. Remember, if they don't have a winning season next year, Kubiak knows he is probably history, so he will likely use his first pick for an IMMEDIATE upgrade. If we pick a LT at 15, there is no guarantee that whoever we might pick at LT wouldn't go through the same rookie problems that most rookie LTs go through.

Also if we go LT, that means no first rounder to throw at DT, Running Back, or Safety, positions where one could say the need will be greater next year and also whoever we draft would arguably require less break-in time than LT does. There are at least half a dozen positions I could easily see us drafting, but LT just isn't one of them.

[mussop]

I know we spent a 1st round pick, but did Duane Brown calm us? Want to guess how many sacks he was credited for giving up? He tied for last in the NFL with 11.5, oh yeah, he had Ephraim Salaam spelling him every other series so he wouldn't get tired and run down.

Am I suggesting that we trade up for Mike Oher? No, while I would love to see him at #15. Can the Texans "save face" and not spend their 1st round pick on an OT, but still get somebody to compete? I'm speculating, yes they could.

Both Troy Kopog - Tulane and William Beatty - Connecticut have some experience of blocking for a successful running game (Mike Forte and Donald Brown, respectively). They also have the agility to play in the ZBS of Gibbs.

One other option is the possibility of Jason Smith - Baylor at #15. I'm not saying that would necessarily be the smartest move, but depending upon who is available, could be the Texans' move.

Just thought I'd start a little conversation that I haven't seen here recently.

When talk of Oher (falling) started I said then that if He or Monroe were to somehow fall we would be crazy to pass them up. You never pass up a franchise LT. Factor in that Brown was a big dissapointment (IMO) and there is no way we pass on either of them.

[painekiller]

You cannot cheer Gibbs and his work here and at the same time bitch about Myers and Brown, they are what a Gibbs OL looks like.

But draft Oher/Monroe in the 1st and Jonathan Luigs/Eric Wood in the 3rd and you have an OL that can compete with any OL in the league.

Oher, Pitts, Luigs, Winston, Brown

That would be some beef that can run.

[idymoe]

Most of Brown's sacks allowed were in the first few games going against some of the top rushers in the league. Kubiak has said several times that he is very pleased with Brown's progress. BTW, Salaam didn't alternate every other series with Brown. He came in every third series and less so in the last few games. People remember sacks, and it's easy to look back on a sack he gave up on a bullrush and conclude he is not strong. I think he is adequately strong, adequately physical, very athletic and has a very desirable disposition.
I would expect him to be stronger next season, after an off-season weight program. I would expect his technique and footwork to improve after going through a rookie season.

Having said all that, painkiller's line would be awesome.

[papabear]

I think Brown showed obvious improvement as the season went along. There's no reason to suspect that won't continue with a full off season to work on technique and strength. I doubt we go LT early. I won't complain if we do because a dominant line on either side of the ball makes all the other positions look better.

One thing to remember is that just because a guy is big doesn't mean he can't play in this scheme. Sure, the average lineman in a ZBS tends to be a little lighter than average, but that doesn't mean a mammoth OL can't do it. Most people questioned the Spencer pick because he didn't fit the norm for a ZBS. He had the feet for it though, and had he not been injured it looked like the sky was the limit.

[NickO]

Brown's 11.5 sacks given up would concern me more if he wasn't part of the league's 4th best passing offense.

[NBT]

I would be very surprised (and dissappointed), if this Draft isn't heavy on the defensive side of the ball. I also think it is premature to dismiss out of hand, a young OT like Brown, who has just now finished his first year at the position.

[mussop]

Most of Brown's sacks allowed were in the first few games going against some of the top rushers in the league.

Having said all that, painkiller's line would be awesome.

I keep hearing this but havent seen any stats to back it up. Does anyone have the sacks allowed by game?

If we are going to use this draft to finish the line then I would go

Oher, Pitts, Mack, Winston, Brown

[painekiller]

I keep hearing this but havent seen any stats to back it up. Does anyone have the sacks allowed by game?

If we are going to use this draft to finish the line then I would go

Oher, Pitts, Mack, Winston, Brown

Most list point to Mack being a late 1st to early 2nd round guy, so you want to trade up/back in to grab Mack?

[mussop]

Most list point to Mack being a late 1st to early 2nd round guy, so you want to trade up/back in to grab Mack? No trade up but if he isnt there i'd gladly take Unger.

[papabear]

I keep hearing this but havent seen any stats to back it up. Does anyone have the sacks allowed by game?

If we are going to use this draft to finish the line then I would go

Oher, Pitts, Mack, Winston, Brown


I can't find anywhere that breaks them down game by game. If you look at the schedule though we played Pitt, Tenn, and Indy in the first four weeks. Those are all teams that can get to the QB. I specifically remember Brown getting abused in the Pitt game. Harrison had three sacks in that game alone and I think there were like five total.

The next week Vanden Bosch and Kearse each had one.

Freeny had one in the first Indy game.

I don't know how many of these were credited to Brown, and that's the big problem with the sacks allowed stat. Only the team knows what the protection scheme was, so it might look like a T got beat badly, but the TE might have blow his assignement to help. That being said it's likely Brown could be credited with 5 sacks allowed in just these first three games.

I seem to remember him struggling the second time around against Freeney as well, but the eyeball test tells me that he improved in both pass protection and run blocking. One thing to remember is that Brown was a TE for his first couple years of college...and I think only had one year at LT before going to the NFL. It's hard to imagine him not getting better as he has more time at the position.

[idymoe]

In the 4th game against the Dolphins, Porter had a sack and quite a few hurries. You can go to the game books for each game at nfl.com to see who had the sacks, but it doesn't say who allowed. I do remember a couple of times in the last part of the season that McClain or LZ mentioned a large number of his sacks in the 1st several games. I wouldn't swear to it, but I think it was 5 1/2 sacks allowed in the 1st 4 games. That certainly seems reasonable.

[Maninthebox]

This topic is a waste of time. Let's move on.

[idymoe]

Yes, let's quit wasting time and roll up our sleeves and really get something done in those other 3 active threads. We're burnin' daylight, boys.

[kravix]

Not to speak for maninthebox, but if his feeling on this subject is anything like mine...

I was shocked, and then not so much, when this thread poped up. Hanging a rookie LT out to dry in his first season. We arent drafting from other NFL rosters, we are drafting from college rosters.

I think I saw it earlier and I will reiterate it. Brown was a TE, moved to RT, and played his last season in college as a LT. So he has a whoping 3 years playing as a tackle, and he played against some of the best pass rushers in the league this year very early. I would say he was average. With that resume and his upside that would make him awesome.

The odds of even drafting a tackle in this draft, with intent to start rather than put on the PS, are probably slimmer than drafting a QB.

Also like someone else said, given the rank of our pass offense, the kid cant be all that bad.

Sometimes I wonder at the people who think that all 52 players on the roster should be pro bowlers. I think I need their jobs so I can eat filet and lobster prepared by a master chef every night too. I bet Bob McNair wishes the same thing.

[Roy P]

Brown was a TE, moved to RT, and played his last season in college as a LT.

I would say he was average. With that resume and his upside that would make him awesome.


I think I need their jobs so I can eat filet and lobster prepared by a master chef every night too. I bet Bob McNair wishes the same thing.

Yup, he's the next Orlando Pace, we're set at LT.

Average = Awesome? That's realistic expectations. You are a glass half full kind of guy, right?

Bob McNair and I definitely need to switch places for a year.

[kravix]

Yup, he's the next Orlando Pace, we're set at LT.

Average = Awesome? That's realistic expectations. You are a glass half full kind of guy, right?

Bob McNair and I definitely need to switch places for a year.

What I meant was that a kid with very little experience in the position came into the NFL and started from the get go at a postion that is one of the hardest to fill. He showed improvement and played ok. To me that is awesome. IMO next year should be much better and even if he does only elevate his game to slightly above average that is way better than having a lesser LT.

I never said he played like a HOF LT, but I am excited about where he may be skill wise next year.

PS. My glass is always full.

[Roy P]

PS. My glass is always full.

That's fine, just make sure to check what it's full of.

[RunninRaven]

Okay, since no one has broken it down completely yet, here is what I gathered from the interwebs:

Game 1 (Pitt) - 5 total, 3 by Harrison
Game 2 (Ten) - 3 total, 1 Vanden Bosch, 1 Kearse, 1 Haynsworth
Game 3 (Jax) - none
Game 4 (Ind) - 2 total, 1 Freeney, 1 Mathis
Game 5 (Mia) - 1 total, Porter
Game 6 (Det) - 3 total, 1 White, 1 Redding
Game 7 (Cin) - 1 total, Thornton
Game 8 (Min) - 5 total, 2 Allen, 1 Greenway, 1 Edwards, 1 Williams
Game 9 (Bal) - 2 total, 1 Price
Game 10 (Ind) - 2 total, both Freeney
Game 11 (Cle) - 1 total, Wimbley
Game 12 (Jax) - none
Game 13 (GB) - 1 total, Bishop
Game 14 (Ten) - 3 total, 1 Tulloch, 1 Ford, 1 Kearse (no Vanden Bosch this game)
Game 15 (Oak) - 3 total, 2 Burgess, 1 Richardson
Game 16 (Chi) - none

Now, take from that what you will. I listed most of them because I am not familiar enough with each team to know who would likely have been lining up against Duane. I will say that my own eyes mirrored what others have said already in this thread, which is that he seemed to show definite improvement as the season went on. I heard his name called out less and less, which is a good thing. Assuming his ceiling is far above where he ended up last year, I see no reason to even consider using a high draft pick on a LT. If you see a project LT in the 4-7 rounds and he looks like a good value, go for it, but not before then.

[Joshua]

I don't profess to be able to critique left tackle play, but my recollection of what has been said by people in the know is that Brown is very raw in his technique and this is his biggest downfall right now. By all accounts, he has the physical skills and mental makeup to do the job, he's just very sloppy right now (particularly as the game wears on). While nothing is guaranteed, one would think that Alex Gibbs will be on his ass and his technique should improve. Seems like most people think that once this happens, he should be a very solid to above average LT. Hopefully so.

[sinnister]

Yup, he's the next Orlando Pace, we're set at LT.

Average = Awesome? That's realistic expectations. You are a glass half full kind of guy, right?

Bob McNair and I definitely need to switch places for a year.

Oher isn't Orlando Pace either.

[TexanJedi]

Seems like Winston was getting burnt on a regular basis the last month of the season, maybe we should be drafting his replacement.

[Roy P]

The reason I brought this up was because our first round pick did not exactly play like one. Can he improve upon his game? I sure hope so.

The potential picks in this draft could be difficult to project at this point. Perhaps Oher slips to #15 and we face the decision as to whether or not to take him. We could perhaps pass on him, like Jammal Brown, and trade down for a player like Travis Johnson.

Another scenario is that when the 2nd round comes around, the BPA available could be an OT. Now that could mean moving Winston to RG and leaving Brown and LT while the rookie could come in and play RT. Also, Ephraim did well as the backup OT last season, but could be getting past his prime. Having a 2nd round OT on the roster like Troy Kropog, with the potential to fill in for Brown or at least compete for the position, might be a good thing. That would allow Salaam to retire.

This is not something that I'm predicting the Texans will do. I'm only wargaming what possibilities are out there. Another situation I might explore is drafting QB Josh Freeman to replace Sage Rosenfels and pushing Schaub. It would be comparable to the Eagles drafting Kevin Kolb.

[papabear]

Another situation I might explore is drafting QB Josh Freeman to replace Sage Rosenfels and pushing Schaub.


What round do you think you could get Freeman in. He's got the size and arm, and can be very good, but he's also has stretches where's he can be WILDLY inaccurate. I've seen him thread the needle on a couple of impressive throws....and then not be anywhere near his intended target on his next three passes.

I realize you are not saying that he could start right away, and maybe someone with a better eye for talent thinks all of problems are fixable but he's not anywhere on my want list.

[Roy P]

What round do you think you could get Freeman in. He's got the size and arm, and can be very good, but he's also has stretches where's he can be WILDLY inaccurate.

Charlie Whitehurst, Brodie Croyle, Trent Edwards, and Kevin O'Connell were in the #80-#95 range of the 3rd round. I'll imagine Freeman would fall in there somewhere.

[jppaul]

Roy, you of all people know that Olinemen for the most part take a while to develop. I saw enough development, I say give the kid a chance.

I know that you are not advocating replacing him, only providing a heads up on a potential situation. Nevertheless, if the goal is a quality LT, and Brown has not been playing up to the level expected then I would say marked improvement is the benchmark by which to judge a rookie.

In other words is he getting better every game. I thought so.

[Bigtinylittle]

I guess it is possible, but to me not likely at all, that we will see a lineman sitting there on the board at 15 who would make us IMMEDIATELY a significantly more competitive team. But I could see a RB, DB, LB, or DL who would fit that bill.